Re-figuring my house, heat and circulation.

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

Well, I thought that I had it all figured out, then, it got cold.
When we were at the 0 ::C

(32

) stage, it was easy to keep our house at 22 ::C

+ (72

). Now that it has gotten to -20 ::C

(-4

) and below over night, it is harder keeping the house at that temp. I can keep it close, but, we wake up to 18 ::C

(64

) temps in the morning. The house seems to not be as well insulated as I thought.
So, this week I have been playing around with the fan in the house (we only have one, and don't want to run any more as they just get in the way) and trying to find the best place for it to distribute the heat the fastest.
So far, the best, now, is about 10' from the the stove room door blowing in, on cycles of two hours on, two hours off, in the hopes that it will blow the cold air from the living room into the stove room, while blowing the hot air out the other door and around the house. It seems to be working, but, I am still coming home from work, and waking up in the morning to a bed of coals and a house around 18 ::C

.
Another thought that I had was to cut holes and put air flow grates above the two doors in the stove room to let the hot air sitting at ceiling level escape.
I am working on a quick drawn out floor plan of the house and see if any one may have other suggestions.

oldspark · Dec 4, 2013

We let the fire go out a lot at night because we like sleeping with the temperature in the low 60's, trying to keep an exact temperature with wood heat can be interesting to say the least.

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

Well, here it is. After searching for, and finding a site where I could draw a floor plan, figuring it out (took mere minutes) and creating my floor plan (not near exact scale, but, you get the idea), here is the floor plan of my house.
I did not do the upstairs lay out. But, there are three bedrooms and a bathroom up there. No other way of circulating air up there other than the stair well. I am still considering creating venting holes in the ceiling to get warm air up there. I will have to look into the building codes on how to do that though.
For now, my fan is in the opening between the entry and the living room, blowing into the stove room.

KSgrown · Dec 4, 2013

Does your house also have a forced air system? Sorry if I missed it...
I used the return air paths for my forced air system to create a cycle that allows the heat from the stove to rise via a stair and cold air naturally falls down through the return air system back into the stove room. It actually works quite well. I added a return air grille in one location upstairs and natural convection did the rest.

Edit: I would not go cutting holes in the floor if you can keep from it. If anything try to use a wall cavity to transfer air from floor to floor. It can be tricky to cut a whole in the framing between floors, inside of a wall, but it is possible because I did it.

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

Nope, no forced air in the house.

Fort Wisers · Dec 4, 2013

Are the temperatures you're stating on the main level with the woodstove or the upstairs bedroom level?
If those are your bedroom temps that's not terrible...
Our stove is in the basement, we added 4 passive grills from the basement to the main floor and it' helped a lot.
The temperature between the basement and main floor is usually within a couple of degrees.

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

Nope, that is on the main floor with the wood stove. Living room gets to about 20 ::C

(I blame that on the windows. I hope to get those replaced next year) We can get the kitchen up to 22 ::C

.
Upstairs is a bit cooler, but, I think we can live with that.

Fort Wisers · Dec 4, 2013

Any idea if the house is 2x4 or 2x6 construction?
How many sqft you trying to heat?
Personally I'd cut a few floor grates to try and get some heat upstairs.....

KSgrown · Dec 4, 2013

2 separate paths will work best. Some where for the heat to rise and a second for the cool air to fall back through. Think about where there natural convection wants to travel and place your openings there. I would think the cool air would want to go to the outside wall... the same way air drops along a window, getting colder on the way down and condenses at the bottom edge of the window.

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

It is a 2x6 construction. About 2000 sq. ft.
Right now I am thinking of cutting holes all over the house

Above the doors in the stove room, and inline fan under the stairs... The list goes on. I probably will not do any of those just yet, just keep playing with the fan placement and adjusting stove temps.

altmartion · Dec 4, 2013

have you ever seen those tiny little doorway fans. they you can put them anywhere. they are very small and quiet. they are light enough to hang with a couple thumb tacks. anyway, they work great, not too much air movement to feel a draft but moves enough air to notice the change. I will ask my wife when she get home.

Fort Wisers · Dec 4, 2013

BrianN said:
It is a 2x6 construction. About 2000 sq. ft.
Right now I am thinking of cutting holes all over the house Above the doors in the stove room, and inline fan under the stairs... The list goes on. I probably will not do any of those just yet, just keep playing with the fan placement and adjusting stove temps.

2000sqft, 2x6 and a blaze king...you should have no problem heating!
We use no fans...there is one section of the house that stays cooler than the rest because it's off to the side and sunken compared to the rest of the main floor.
But the section with the grills is nice and cozy.....
Good luck, hope you have a great burning year!

BrianN · Dec 4, 2013

I thought it would be a breeze, but, I think it is our bay windows in the living room, as that is the coldest room down stairs, plus, the windows are old.
I am looking for an incense that burns with more smoke so that I can look for drafts. I can't feel drafts, but, there has to be cold air coming from some where. I am also thinking of getting a home evaluation done.
As for now though, I will keep the wood flowing, the king cranked and the fan blowing.
It is still way better than last year. Where I couldn't even get our living room to stay at 20 ::C

Fort Wisers · Dec 4, 2013

I have to ask......what type of wood you burning and how long was it seasoned for?
The first year we had our PE summit I was late in the year cutting and splitting so it only seasoned from June of the same year on.
We kept the house warmish that year but I will admit I was a little dissapointed.
Thats was also my first year burnging with an EPA stove so I didn't know what to expect. All I knew is I grew up around traditional airtights and they always seemed to produce a ton of heat..... I'll also admit I started to wonder if the EPAs were worth all the hype.
After that first season I did some reading (mostly on this site) and learned EPA stoves seem to be more sensitive to wet wood than say a traditional airtight. (although, lets face it bruning poorly seasoned wood is bad in either)
So the last two years I've kept on top of getting my wood ready good and early and the resultant heat output has been much better.
I'm a little surprised you can't hit into the mid to high 20s when the outside temp is around 0degC.
On a 0 degC day if I load the stove up nicely we can hit 26-27degC on the main floor with ease....

You're right in that old leaky windows wouldn't help.....
Also keep in mind what oldspark said as well, with wood heating keeping an exact number just isn't easy.

I mention all this because (and If I'm overstepping and assuming something I shouldn't please correct me) I'm getting the feeling you're a little disapointed with the results you're seeing.....

begreen · Dec 4, 2013

I'm wondering why the stove wasn't placed in the living room? The current setup looks like it's set up for a small area heater like a Jotul 602.

Charles1981 · Dec 4, 2013

How many fans are you using? I'd say use more fans! Your current fan plus another blowing into the stove room from the entry way on top of the living room blowing into the entry way towards the stove room. Do you have a ceiling fan in the stove room? That could help out as well.

I'd say have another fan between the kitchen room and the stove room as well. You will have to decide if it is best blowing into the stove room or out across the kitchen. With 3 fans in these doorways you could possible create a pseudo air current on the lower floor.

Is your garage insulated? If not do you know how insulated the stove wall is abutting the garage?

Do you have the stove blower for your BK? Have you considered purchasing the stove blower?

mfetcho · Dec 4, 2013

I think your temperatures are fine. A low burn at night with those cold temps outside would be hard to maintain a 72 degree house. A house will drop in temp on a low burn. Crank it up in the morning to raise the temp.

Ash · Dec 4, 2013

Fort Wisers said:
Any idea if the house is 2x4 or 2x6 construction?
How many sqft you trying to heat?
Personally I'd cut a few floor grates to try and get some heat upstairs.....

Fort wisers, I am going to be cutting two floor grates in my house and was wondering what you used for grates or grills and did you use any duct work between them. Thanks

Fort Wisers · Dec 5, 2013

Hey Ash,
I simply cut holes in my basement ceiling and main level flooring then fitted the holes with 4" x 10" duct grates that would normally be used in a forced air system.
I didn't do any duct work between, just aligned the ceiling and floor holes.
I would have liked to go bigger but we couldn't find larger grates that both my wife and I liked the style of.
There is a local code here that doesn't allow any type of ducting over a woodstove so I didn't locate any grates straight above the stove.
Definitely check with your local building and woodstove installation code.

BrianN · Dec 5, 2013

Fort Wisers said:
I have to ask......what type of wood you burning and how long was it seasoned for?
The first year we had our PE summit I was late in the year cutting and splitting so it only seasoned from June of the same year on.
We kept the house warmish that year but I will admit I was a little dissapointed.
Thats was also my first year burnging with an EPA stove so I didn't know what to expect. All I knew is I grew up around traditional airtights and they always seemed to produce a ton of heat..... I'll also admit I started to wonder if the EPAs were worth all the hype.
After that first season I did some reading (mostly on this site) and learned EPA stoves seem to be more sensitive to wet wood than say a traditional airtight. (although, lets face it bruning poorly seasoned wood is bad in either)
So the last two years I've kept on top of getting my wood ready good and early and the resultant heat output has been much better.
I'm a little surprised you can't hit into the mid to high 20s when the outside temp is around 0degC.
On a 0 degC day if I load the stove up nicely we can hit 26-27degC on the main floor with ease....

You're right in that old leaky windows wouldn't help.....
Also keep in mind what oldspark said as well, with wood heating keeping an exact number just isn't easy.

I mention all this because (and If I'm overstepping and assuming something I shouldn't please correct me) I'm getting the feeling you're a little disapointed with the results you're seeing.....

I am burning beetle kill pine (that is pretty much all we have up here), it has been standing dead at least three years. It has also been c/s/s since early summer. All is well under 20%. In our last house with a wood stove, we had a princess, using the same type of wood. Burned hot and long and kept the house very warm.
When the outside temp is near the 0 ::C

mark, it is easy to keep at 20 ::C

. Easy to get up to the mid 20's ::C

too. It is just when it is getting past the mid teens it gets harder to get to room temp. Saying that, getting up this morning, -14 ::C

outside, and very cozy in here. I did keep the fan in the entry way on most of the night.
I'm not looking to keep it an an exact temp all night and day. Just trying to keep it in a comfortable zone.
I am a little disappointed, but, not with the stove. More disappointed in myself for not being able to figure this out faster

but, it will come in time, I am sure.

BrianN · Dec 5, 2013

begreen said:
I'm wondering why the stove wasn't placed in the living room? The current setup looks like it's set up for a small area heater like a Jotul 602.

The stove isn't in the living room because we already have a pellet stove there. Between the living room and the dining room.
Our original plans were to take out the pellet stove and build an alcove for the wood stove, but, decided to keep the pellet stove there just for looks. And, maybe start it up a few times a year.
Also, I think if the wood stove was there, we would roast ourselves out of the living room. Would not be comfortable there at all.

BrianN · Dec 5, 2013

Charles1981 said:
How many fans are you using? I'd say use more fans! Your current fan plus another blowing into the stove room from the entry way on top of the living room blowing into the entry way towards the stove room. Do you have a ceiling fan in the stove room? That could help out as well.

I'd say have another fan between the kitchen room and the stove room as well. You will have to decide if it is best blowing into the stove room or out across the kitchen. With 3 fans in these doorways you could possible create a pseudo air current on the lower floor.

Is your garage insulated? If not do you know how insulated the stove wall is abutting the garage?

Do you have the stove blower for your BK? Have you considered purchasing the stove blower?

We are using only the one fan. I am thinking of getting one more, and putting it in the laundry room. The only problem with that is, it will always have to be moved, or we will be tripping over it all the time. One in the kitchen is out of the question, as it would also always be in the way.
We have a ceiling fan at the top of the stairs, and use that to blow cold air down the stairs, into the path of the fan blowing into the stove room.
The garage is insulated, as well as the wall between the garage and the stove room. Everything is insulated pretty well in this house, from what I have seen anyways.
I do not have a blower on the stove, and have not thought of getting one.

BrianN · Dec 5, 2013

Fort Wisers, that is exactly what I am thinking of doing. Two grates from the stove room, directly above to the bedroom. Mentioned it to the wife, she then stated that it may get too hot up there. Do you have a problem with too hot in the room above?
I would also assume that you would have two warm strips of floor, between the joists in the floor where the grates are.

BrianN · Dec 5, 2013

Was just thinking about, and reading up on Outdoor Air Kits.
Any one think that may help? Bring in the fresh cold air from out side?
If so, would it work if I brought air in from the garage? No, there is no car being parked out there. It is just mainly storage, no noxious fumes.

Fort Wisers · Dec 5, 2013

BrianN said:
Fort Wisers, that is exactly what I am thinking of doing. Two grates from the stove room, directly above to the bedroom. Mentioned it to the wife, she then stated that it may get too hot up there. Do you have a problem with too hot in the room above?
I would also assume that you would have two warm strips of floor, between the joists in the floor where the grates are.

I used standard forced air duct grates, so they have an adjustable flap on each.
If you did happen to get too much heat upstairs you could always choke them off a bit to moderate.
I've always ran them wide open and never had an issue.
The force of convection is pretty low, so you don't feel a ton of heat coming up through them, just a gentle warmth.
Surprisingly the floor is a pretty consistent temperature.
The basement ceiling is thin T&G pine....so I don't think it traps a lot, I think most of the heat is trapped by the subfloor.
You might have a different outcome than we did.....
Good luck, and don't be too hard on yourself, life is too short, enjoy the fun!

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