The myth of alarmists, and why the fish are dead and deadly.....

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webbie

webbie

Seasoned Moderator
Nov 17, 2005
12,165
Western Mass.
Life is complex. On one hand we each try to keep our own little corner of the earth warm and cozy, but on the other we sometimes fail to see the Big Picture. Worse yet, we tend to pooh-pooh anyone who comes along and tells us the ice caps or melting, that there is a hole in the ozone or that cancer is caused by human activity.

Occasionally a story comes along which should show ALL of us just how small and fragile our little corner of the solar system it. Stories like this make me think of that old commercial showing the Native American with a tear in his eye while scanning the ruined landscape.

The story concerned the Great Lakes, the largest bodies of fresh water in the USA (and the world?).

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=76200

"The report estimates that approximately 50,000 tons of industrial pollutants are pouring into the Great Lakes annually. Levels of PCBs, methyl mercury and dioxins in many Great Lakes fish, such as salmon, rainbow trout, walleye, pike and lake trout are too high for human consumption.....the report states that serious problems still exist and seems to be getting worse. "

It makes me feel like this:
http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/39384/detail/

Come to think of it, I may make this a HearthBlog entry!
 
Some interesting facts about the Great Lakes put this into perspective. We're talking about 6 quadrillion gallons of fresh water; one-fifth of the world's fresh surface water. This is 95% of the fresh water in the US. The volume of water in Great Lakes system is second in size only to Lake Baikal in Siberia and the diminishing polar ice caps. If the water contained in the lake system were evenly distributed across the continental US it would be 9.5 ft. deep!

The disconnect between man's actions and the results is often appalling. No one ever seems to want to ask - at what cost to our children? By no means does the US have a ownership of this. Communism is just as badly at fault as capitalism, if not worse. The 4th largest fresh water lake on the planet, Lake Aral, is almost gone and will likely disappear within the next 15 years due to the amazing selfishness of man. Imagine Lake Michigan gone to get a sense of scale. And it only took about the lifetime of a human for this to happen. Ironic how rare it is that one stops and thinks about who is at the top of the food chain and where this must inevitably lead.
 
BeGreen said:
Some interesting facts about the Great Lakes put this into perspective. We're talking about 6 quadrillion gallons of fresh water; one-fifth of the world's fresh surface water. This is 95% of the fresh water in the US. The volume of water in Great Lakes system is second in size only to Lake Baikal in Siberia and the diminishing polar ice caps. If the water contained in the lake system were evenly distributed across the continental US it would be 9.5 ft. deep!

The disconnect between man's actions and the results is often appalling. No one ever seems to want to ask - at what cost to our children? By no means does the US have a ownership of this. Communism is just as badly at fault as capitalism, if not worse. The 4th largest fresh water lake on the planet, Lake Aral, is almost gone and will likely disappear within the next 15 years due to the amazing selfishness of man. Imagine Lake Michigan gone to get a sense of scale. And it only took about the lifetime of a human for this to happen. Ironic how rare it is that one stops and thinks about who is at the top of the food chain and where this must inevitably lead.
Click to expand...

That's "The problem with the human race"...we can't see the little things that we do collectively "taking a toll on this little mudball we call 'earth'.."

It always amazes me that nobody ever mentions "The acceptable levels of chemicals in the water, the pollutants in the air, the amount of stuff dumped on the ground and the stuff in our food" what "collectively" this means to our health...and that of the planet.

Really though...we everything we breathe, eat, drink and "are exposed to" in our "daily modern life"....How much better off are we?

On the subject of the "Great Lakes"...a few weeks ago, one of the "big three" nightly news stations reported that Lake Michigan was 2.5 feet lower than normal (roughly 16 trillion gallons)...without getting into the "Global Warming debate"...one can't help but notice the "climate is different"...whether or not it is in fact changing??? I will leave to the experts but "strange things are happening".
 
keyman512us said:
BeGreen said:
Some interesting facts about the Great Lakes put this into perspective. We're talking about 6 quadrillion gallons of fresh water; one-fifth of the world's fresh surface water. This is 95% of the fresh water in the US. The volume of water in Great Lakes system is second in size only to Lake Baikal in Siberia and the diminishing polar ice caps. If the water contained in the lake system were evenly distributed across the continental US it would be 9.5 ft. deep!

The disconnect between man's actions and the results is often appalling. No one ever seems to want to ask - at what cost to our children? By no means does the US have a ownership of this. Communism is just as badly at fault as capitalism, if not worse. The 4th largest fresh water lake on the planet, Lake Aral, is almost gone and will likely disappear within the next 15 years due to the amazing selfishness of man. Imagine Lake Michigan gone to get a sense of scale. And it only took about the lifetime of a human for this to happen. Ironic how rare it is that one stops and thinks about who is at the top of the food chain and where this must inevitably lead.
Click to expand...

That's "The problem with the human race"...we can't see the little things that we do collectively "taking a toll on this little mudball we call 'earth'.."

It always amazes me that nobody ever mentions "The acceptable levels of chemicals in the water, the pollutants in the air, the amount of stuff dumped on the ground and the stuff in our food" what "collectively" this means to our health...and that of the planet.

Really though...we everything we breathe, eat, drink and "are exposed to" in our "daily modern life"....How much better off are we?

On the subject of the "Great Lakes"...a few weeks ago, one of the "big three" nightly news stations reported that Lake Michigan was 2.5 feet lower than normal (roughly 16 trillion gallons)...without getting into the "Global Warming debate"...one can't help but notice the "climate is different"...whether or not it is in fact changing??? I will leave to the experts but "strange things are happening".
Click to expand...
What makes it so hard to figure out is that in weather, strange things always happen. Blizzard of 1888, Dust Bowl of the 30's, Johnstown flood, Galvastin Hurricane...
 
jpl1nh said:
keyman512us said:
BeGreen said:
Some interesting facts about the Great Lakes put this into perspective. We're talking about 6 quadrillion gallons of fresh water; one-fifth of the world's fresh surface water. This is 95% of the fresh water in the US. The volume of water in Great Lakes system is second in size only to Lake Baikal in Siberia and the diminishing polar ice caps. If the water contained in the lake system were evenly distributed across the continental US it would be 9.5 ft. deep!

The disconnect between man's actions and the results is often appalling. No one ever seems to want to ask - at what cost to our children? By no means does the US have a ownership of this. Communism is just as badly at fault as capitalism, if not worse. The 4th largest fresh water lake on the planet, Lake Aral, is almost gone and will likely disappear within the next 15 years due to the amazing selfishness of man. Imagine Lake Michigan gone to get a sense of scale. And it only took about the lifetime of a human for this to happen. Ironic how rare it is that one stops and thinks about who is at the top of the food chain and where this must inevitably lead.
Click to expand...

That's "The problem with the human race"...we can't see the little things that we do collectively "taking a toll on this little mudball we call 'earth'.."

It always amazes me that nobody ever mentions "The acceptable levels of chemicals in the water, the pollutants in the air, the amount of stuff dumped on the ground and the stuff in our food" what "collectively" this means to our health...and that of the planet.

Really though...we everything we breathe, eat, drink and "are exposed to" in our "daily modern life"....How much better off are we?

On the subject of the "Great Lakes"...a few weeks ago, one of the "big three" nightly news stations reported that Lake Michigan was 2.5 feet lower than normal (roughly 16 trillion gallons)...without getting into the "Global Warming debate"...one can't help but notice the "climate is different"...whether or not it is in fact changing??? I will leave to the experts but "strange things are happening".
Click to expand...
What makes it so hard to figure out is that in weather, strange things always happen. Blizzard of 1888, Dust Bowl of the 30's, Johnstown flood, Galvastin Hurricane...
Click to expand...

...Spring rains of May 06' along the Nashua and Merrimac rivers...lol ;)

Couldn't believe how hard northern Middlesex County MA../..Southern NH "got nailed" in that one...ouch! ;)

Maybe it's "normal patterns" I dunno...but the "Frequency" seems to be increasing IMHO...
 
I'm life long fresh water fisherman. ITs not just confined to the great lakes. At one time in my childhood We would eat some of fish we caught.
Today I would not think of eating freshwater fish, catch and realease. I been doing quite a bit of fishing again last night. There seems that lakes and ponds are weeding up faster than any time I can remember Usually it is contrubuted to nitrates IE septic spillage of lawm fertilizer But this is not always the case there are ponds that are not near any residential development progressing the same When I mean not near residential development I walk a mile in the woods over former firepaths and logging trails. Many time I maybe the only one fishing these ponds.
I also see wildlife that many do not even know make their habitant there. This is pretty amazing considering the proximity I am to the I 95 corridor.

I was plesently supprised Saturday night when my son saw the row boat in the back of the truck and asked to go along ITS been over 12 years since we last fished together.

Another thing I've never expressed here is how much time I spend in the outdoors No I do not hunt anymore gave that up with the Childern. But I do have a deep respect of nature and preserving and protecting it. Even when I built homes I took out only the trees that needed to be removed. I did not clear cut the entire lot. At times I positioned the home to save a well developed tree.
 
Do ya really think the frequency is increasing Keyman, or are you just more aware of things because of the internet, 24 hour news networks, etc ?
 
A sad story for sure. But to try and make the causal link that humans are the cause of the current warming trend, because humans junked up the Great Lakes, is dishonest. The cause of the issues in the Great Lakes can be DIRECTLY attributed to humans. Do bears and deer make PCB's & dioxins?

I'm all for cleaning up the environment and conserving, but the AGW crap has got get be put in it's place....... with Big Foot, Nessy, and the ASM.

AGW rant over. Now let's
 
11 Bravo said:
Do ya really think the frequency is increasing Keyman, or are you just more aware of things because of the internet, 24 hour news networks, etc ?
Click to expand...

...To be honest, I just shake my head and wonder actually. You hear the stories from the 'old timers' when they say "Never seen nothing like this" but some say "This ain't nothin.."

Take the global warming issue/debate for instance. Man can not accomplish in years what mother nature can do in mere minutes.

However, on the flip side of that coin...she put all that carbon (coal and oil) into the ground for some reason, and I doubt it was for us to "find as a treasure". So I'll view it with some skeptisicm.... and take the GW crowds' words "as a cautionary tale".

You don't have to live in LA CA to know the air is "getting worse" so to speak.

....Just gotta find a "happy medium" somewhere in the middle.

As for the climate changing? Maybe it is...but we could "do things a little smarter to'dampen' the effects."

...More ideas on that 'later'... lol ;)
 
I'm not saying there isn't a problem. I'm not for pollution. I don't hate fish. I'm all for clean water, and cleaner water. I'm all for reduction in population density in sensitive areas and even in not so sensitive areas. I use nothing but borax on my ants. Poor ants. But I hope you folks don't run to the nearest burning issues type site for your facts on what's in the water, and the evils that man perpetrates on the earth.

http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/solec/

http://binational.net/solec/English/sogl2007highlights_en.pdf


And if your going to laugh at the governmental sources I linked, please don't, just provide a more honest ones.
 
elkimmeg said:
I'm life long fresh water fisherman. ITs not just confined to the great lakes. At one time in my childhood We would eat some of fish we caught.
Today I would not think of eating freshwater fish, catch and realease.
Click to expand...

This is a good example of how we accept things.....not meant as a critique, but why aren't fisherman marching on city hall or lobbying their local politicians (more)....instead, they catch and release and accept that for the "way things are".

I suppose if the fish got even more deadly, they would accept having to not touch them - catch and release with gloves on!

And, actually, we have already accepted many areas where the fish are no more and you cannot swim. The price of progress? Or the price of selfishness?

As far as tying it in with Global Warming, anyone who reads my former rants knows that I have never stood behind the GW thing...not because it isn't true (heck if I know!), but because I don't see where it makes one bit of difference in terms of what we should be doing on an environmental track. A person can "buy" one story or the other, or all:

Running out of fossil fuels
Other pollution associated with some of them
Political and security implications
Global Warming
etc....

And the net result is the same. GW is a convenient "packaging" of the problems into something which may be easier for governments and industry (and the masses) to get their head around...and it achieves the same results as worrying about Peak Oil or the other things listed above.

The point of the post and the blog thread is not that GW is real, BUT that the world is very small and mankind has been more than capable of screwing vast portions of it up. This means those with the alternate theories of "Oh, the world is big and we are just a drop in the bucket" really do not have a leg to stand on.

In the "old" days we didn't have facts to stand upon - when we didn't know that GE and Kodak had polluted virtually 100% of the Hudson River (which remains that way today and has deadly chemicals on the bottom), when we didn't have pictures from space or even views from airplanes showing us how small the world it....then there may have been a good excuse for keeping our heads in the sand. We didn't know. But now we do.
 
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