Almost made a decision...my brain is broken.

newbieinCT · Dec 20, 2013

lbcynya said:
Cure for analysis paralysis - biggest, highest quality, stove you can afford, install an OAK, buy quality pellets, sit back, grab a favorite beverage and enjoy the heat.

XXV to me was a piece of furniture with a payback. I enjoy having it around, even in the summer.

Based on your description/layout, I would say no less than 50k BTU to be safe, not sorry. Unlike a traditional wood stove, going too big on a pellet stove only results in a small potential loss of efficiency, but gives you plenty of headroom for really cold nights.

My husband is reading all the posts and picking up on the xxv ones. Which is fine, I want it too. It just feels like a splurge for style (which does matter, of course) when we don't have any money for splurging. if only there was a p series with ~50k btus...then I would have one priced in the mid of p43 and p61a and it would be easier.

That XXV is much prettier though...

Lake Girl · Dec 20, 2013

newbieinCT said:
We are headed to home depot tonight to pick some up! The windows are big - so hopefully they have the big stuff! We've put it in a bunch of rooms for for some reason, we keep thinking we are going to have time to make some storms before Xmas. Now that I've been on a stove hunt and hubby is trying to fix the old one - we haven't even figured out a plan. the plastic will definitely help

I know you can get packages to cover patio doors so that should cover your 4x6 window... stay warm

RKBAGUY · Dec 20, 2013

Meg, here's another 'pearl' for you:

Buy it once, buy it right.

The slight additional cost of a higher quality or nicer item is returned tenfold over its lifespan. Stated another way:

The temporary pleasure of a lower price is far outweighed by the long term pain of lower quality or performance.

I agree with an earlier post by lbcynya ... buy the best you can afford. And for the record, I would absolutely go with the OAK, having not known about it myself when I bought my pre-owned Austroflamm, now that I understand the principle behind it, I'll be changing over hopefully this weekend when the weather warms enough to get it done.

briansol · Dec 20, 2013

a leaky old house with crazy corners....

go as big as you possibly can afford to IMO.

I wish my stove could keep up with 10* nights.
it can't maintain 64.
burning barefoots.
my house was built in 1997 and has all the thermal modern nonsense and spray in insulation.

my stove is rated for 2000 sq ft, 37K btu.
my house is 1400 sq ft and pretty open from hearth to kitchen to up 6 stairs straight up to the bedrooms.

it can't keep up.

Based on my experience, I would say a low 40k stove is never going to cut it in your house.
I wish I had the p61A.

and definitely get an OAK installed. 100% required IMO.

newbieinCT · Dec 20, 2013

RKBAGUY said:
Meg, here's another 'pearl' for you:

Buy it once, buy it right.

The slight additional cost of a higher quality or nicer item is returned tenfold over its lifespan. Stated another way:

The temporary pleasure of a lower price is far outweighed by the long term pain of lower quality or performance.

I agree with an earlier post by lbcynya ... buy the best you can afford. And for the record, I would absolutely go with the OAK, having not known about it myself when I bought my pre-owned Austroflamm, now that I understand the principle behind it, I'll be changing over hopefully this weekend when the weather warms enough to get it done.

I completely agree. We have so much going on right now, we don't want to buy another one that requires a ton on tinkering, figuring out, fixing - right from the beginning. One thing I keep hearing is that Harman are work horses, especially the p series. Right now, it's between the xxv and the p61a. Only thing holding me back from pushing the p61 is that I don't know if it is just too big for our space - to the point it will be set super low all the time. Husband just wants the pretty xxv, doesn't really listen to the btu info. I understand, completely, but I'm trying to be practical with the money. I know we are getting a great stove, either way.

And, thanks to you and the rest of the forum, we will be insisting on an OAK. No matter what the installer "prefers"

I would go with someone else but there are only 2 harman dealers in our area. He is one and the least expensive. He also seemed to really listen to what I had to say about the layout before making any suggestions. the other guy was nice, but didn't know as much.

Thank you! I'm sure my husband will use the "buy it once, buy it right" phrase against me at some point - probably tonight when I say it to him and he said "so, the XXV is the one we want. Buy it once and we won't regret it". I'll be pushing the p61 the same way "best we can afford". I guess it matters on if "best" means in power, or in style. Whichever is more important to a person...it's hard for me to spend the money on style. So used to penny pinching to afford the house

newbieinCT · Dec 20, 2013

briansol said:
a leaky old house with crazy corners....

go as big as you possibly can afford to IMO.

I wish my stove could keep up with 10* nights.
it can't maintain 64.
burning barefoots.
my house was built in 1997 and has all the thermal modern nonsense and spray in insulation.

my stove is rated for 2000 sq ft, 37K btu.
my house is 1400 sq ft and pretty open from hearth to kitchen to up 6 stairs straight up to the bedrooms.

it can't keep up.

Based on my experience, I would say a low 40k stove is never going to cut it in your house.
I wish I had the p61A.

and definitely get an OAK installed. 100% required IMO.

Great advice from a person with a "lesson learned". I'm using to support my fight for the p61

RKBAGUY · Dec 20, 2013

I suppose it also depends on what you consider to be 'pretty' and what fits your decor. I tend toward more simplistic, geometric designs given I'm going with a Mission/Crafts motif. So the streamlined look of the Integra was exactly what the doctor ordered, as opposed to the more ornamental 'Victorian' look of wrought iron you find on other stoves. I think either way you won't be disappointed. But if it feels good to spend a few extra bucks on something that will fit better with your design aims, then that's the way to go. Remember it's going to be a focal point in the room, so better to get something that works with your furnishings. And, though this is a remote consideration, resale value of the house is also a factor to consider. A 'nicer' stove will help the house sell faster in the future and likely fetch a higher price.

briansol · Dec 20, 2013

A pretty stove that doesn't keep you warm starts looking pretty ugly.... you will become spiteful towards it.

Mr._Graybeard · Dec 20, 2013

A lot of old houses were built so the occupants could close off rooms to conserve heat. That works against you when you're trying to get even heat distribution from a stove. You're probably going to have some chilly rooms no matter which stove you buy. So put it in the space you use the most (the kitchen tends to heat itself). You can direct-vent a Harman, so you don't have to worry about being in close proximity to a chimney.

If you eventually choose to get a central heating unit that burns pellets like the one in that CL ad, I'd install it in parallel and keep the oil burner as a backup. Your homeowners insurance may require that anyway.

newbieinCT · Dec 20, 2013

bbfarm said:
I would install your stove in the dining room since it is a more central room of your house

We installed ours in the dining room

Would it have looked nicer in our living room? Of course. But our goal was to heat the entire house with our stove and it does a pretty good job

In addition to the biggest stove you can afford I would research problems with each model, how easy the model is to service and clean

I would love to install into the dining room, but I don't think we can. You probably can't tell from the sketch but there's the one was mainly kitchen doorway (5'wide), short exterior wall has 2 windows, inside wall has built in book shelves, chimney, two doorways (one to front room, one basement) and 4th wall goes into family room. Not much space other than the corner by the kitchen and that's fairly small area. Not sure we want to cut the doorway off. Considered putting it in the far corner of the family room so at least it is blowing toward the door, but there's already a brick hearth for the wood stove and the opposite corner is windows as well. It would vent to the front of the house.

Seriously...not an easy decision. We are going to start with it in the wood stove spot. If we redo things down the road, we will think about where we can move the stove. Right now, there's no room in dining, kitchen, front or family room for a stove :/

Looking into the differences between xxv and p61a now...good idea. thanks for the suggestion!
Meg

Lousyweather · Dec 20, 2013

P61A-2 has 11k BTU/hr top end heat output, cheaper, easier to service, you can put an extension hopper on it, even without the ext hopper, the 61a holds more pellets, the ash pan is MUCH larger, and the distribution fan is cheaper if you need to replace it. Lets see.....I can say tho that the XXV is quieter.

This DEALER owns the P61....and has for 14 years.....going on 15.

MikeNH · Dec 20, 2013

Lousyweather said:
P61A-2 has 11k BTU/hr top end heat output, cheaper, easier to service, you can put an extension hopper on it, even without the ext hopper, the 61a holds more pellets, the ash pan is MUCH larger, and the distribution fan is cheaper if you need to replace it. Lets see.....I can say tho that the XXV is quieter.

Funny, I was just at the dealer this morning and we were talking about the XXV vs the P series. These were all our considerations as well. The pro's to the XXV for us were 1) it's definitely the nicest looking pellet stove we'd ever seen and 2) It's quieter. In the end, the P61a won. I think the P43 or XXV would have provided us with some great heat, but we would have also been burning some oil.

Tonyray · Dec 20, 2013

newbieinCT said:
After reading these threads, it gets mine too. Even though I am always going to feel like I compromised and got one that didn't fit the look of our house. We have been saying since the beginning that we like the xxv and other cast stove looks....much more rustic, like this ol' farmhouse. Of course, I'm practical too.

Husband, is not so practical. He will do whatever (which makes this even harder) but I know he absolutely wants the xxv.

going to have dealer come look at the space and see what he recommended for btus. Was thinking we could make it with the p43 and so did a few others here. Think I would rather not over work the stove, especially since we have a lot of windows here - hard to keep btus with lots windows!
Thanks for the vote

we have a P61A,
IT IS OVERSIZED for our needs . No Biggie.so we just run the blower on half speed or less while still using a 3 or 4 for pellet feed..
nice to know we have bigger if needed..btw: we have 2nd floor with a ceiling fan at top of the steps running clockwise on low speed.
It does pull the warm trapped air to where we need it.. a P43 would have worked but would have prob had it running full boar to help get heat started upstairs.
bigger with a pellet stove is not so bad to have.

saladdin · Dec 20, 2013

I just don't understand why style has anything to do with this. Sounds like intentionally making it harder to heat then needed.

That's a lot of twists, turns and door ways. You need to really spend a lot of time figuring out how you are going to flow that heat. You are going to need as many btus as possible.

MikeNH · Dec 21, 2013

Lots of good considerations from people here. My friend has an XXV. It's a beautiful stove and it matches the decor of his country home perfectly, but it won't heat it without help from oil. Their house is similar to your diagram...lots of rooms. You and your husband need to weigh out which is more important...the aesthetics or the BTUs...sounds like you're down to those two features. This might sound dumb, but if you're concerned about how a P61a would look in a spot in your home, photoshop one into a picture of that spot and see how it looks. It would give you a general idea.

Enigma869 · Dec 21, 2013

newbieinCT said:
My husband is reading all the posts and picking up on the xxv ones. Which is fine, I want it too. It just feels like a splurge for style (which does matter, of course) when we don't have any money for splurging. if only there was a p series with ~50k btus...then I would have one priced in the mid of p43 and p61a and it would be easier.

That XXV is much prettier though...

For what it's worth, my wife and I felt the exact same way about our Accentra Insert. I REALLY liked the look of it and my P68 is an ugly duckling by comparison. That said, we had the option of putting in another Accentra at our new house. After living with it for three Winters, I just knew it wasn't up to the job (especially when it gets very cold), so we never really considered it for the new house. We went with the P68 and have no regrets. The P68 puts out significantly more heat than the Accentra (even on very low settings) and is much easier to clean than the Accentra. I still REALLY prefer the aesthetics of the Accentra, but when it came right down to it, the heat output was FAR more important to us than the look of the stove. As many others have said, you'll NEVER, EVER, EVER wish that you had a smaller stove!

newbieinCT · Dec 21, 2013

Lousyweather said:
P61A-2 has 11k BTU/hr top end heat output, cheaper, easier to service, you can put an extension hopper on it, even without the ext hopper, the 61a holds more pellets, the ash pan is MUCH larger, and the distribution fan is cheaper if you need to replace it. Lets see.....I can say tho that the XXV is quieter.

This DEALER owns the P61....and has for 14 years.....going on 15.

Ash pan larger..huge + for me. This is a very helpful breakdown. ...love that you have had it for over 14 years now...makes the expensive so much more reasonable. It's hard to shell out $4-5k when you have just purchased a house, but we know this is an important investment. Even if we end up getting other heating down the road, we have this as backup or can resell. We are going to go check out the stoves at the store this morning - I think seeing them in person will help my husband decide. Unfortunately, it may push him in the XXV direction, because I know he loves that style. I'm hoping he sees the price comparison ($200 cheaper for the p61a) and starts thinking a little more practically. Ultimately, it is up to me because he trusts all my crazy research. Of course, if he agrees with me, I won't feel bad about putting (what we think) is a less attractive stove in our home.

newbieinCT · Dec 21, 2013

MikeNH said:
Funny, I was just at the dealer this morning and we were talking about the XXV vs the P series. These were all our considerations as well. The pro's to the XXV for us were 1) it's definitely the nicest looking pellet stove we'd ever seen and 2) It's quieter. In the end, the P61a won. I think the P43 or XXV would have provided us with some great heat, but we would have also been burning some oil.

After all the going back and forth, I woke up this morning determined to get the p61a. Then I read all these posts again and I feel even better about the decision...the idea of burning oil is terrifying to me. We have an old thermaprime (I think that is what is it called) furnace from 1980s and the house isn't air sealed yet. Every time I hear it turn on (we keep it at 60), I cringe and imagine the heat going out the vents and then out into the world. Thanks for the opinion!

IHATEPROPANE · Dec 21, 2013

A 50k btus stove on high would burn 3.5 bags a day.
A 61k btus stove on high would burn 4.3.

Has anyone ever read about anybody burning that many bags per day? And if you were you would not be happy having to fill your hopper every 6 hours. Going through 3 tons a month.

My point being I think either one will be more than enough.

newbieinCT · Dec 21, 2013

Tonyray said:
we have a P61A,
IT IS OVERSIZED for our needs . No Biggie.so we just run the blower on half speed or less while still using a 3 or 4 for pellet feed..
nice to know we have bigger if needed..btw: we have 2nd floor with a ceiling fan at top of the steps running clockwise on low speed.
It does pull the warm trapped air to where we need it.. a P43 would have worked but would have prob had it running full boar to help get heat started upstairs.
bigger with a pellet stove is not so bad to have.

More support that we should get the p61a...thank you!! We have a ceiling fan in the master bedroom, we are hoping that will help. Want to put one at the top of the stairs but the space is too small and very low ceilings b/c it's the older portion of the house.
thanks!

newbieinCT · Dec 21, 2013

Enigma869 said:
For what it's worth, my wife and I felt the exact same way about our Accentra Insert. I REALLY liked the look of it and my P68 is an ugly duckling by comparison. That said, we had the option of putting in another Accentra at our new house. After living with it for three Winters, I just knew it wasn't up to the job (especially when it gets very cold), so we never really considered it for the new house. We went with the P68 and have no regrets. The P68 puts out significantly more heat than the Accentra (even on very low settings) and is much easier to clean than the Accentra. I still REALLY prefer the aesthetics of the Accentra, but when it came right down to it, the heat output was FAR more important to us than the look of the stove. As many others have said, you'll NEVER, EVER, EVER wish that you had a smaller stove!

Thank you for this...I really think we should get the p61. Even if the xxv will do the work, I would much rather have one a little bigger. We are going to a store to see the Harmans in person - I've seen them, my husband hasn't. New home with lots of repairs. We need to be practical, but like you said, it's hard not to love the look of the other stoves. For us, it's always been about "when we get our new home, we don't have to live with other people's style"...so here we are, with our first home. An old one, in need of repairs, but at least it's ours. We want to restore it to look more like it did in the day - the old owners added a bunch of track lighting and horrible 80's styling. The idea of compromising on style is a tough one for us (mainly him...Im too cheap and cold to care about style whenI know that p61 is going to help us out)

I think I am going to get the dimensions of the MVAE insert. If it will fit in our fireplace, when we replace the old pellet stove at the far end of the house maybe we can get a "pretty" insert. We will be in a better place to get something stylish and not just a workhorse.

Thanks for everyone's advice. Wish I could do something to say thanks....I don't have advice to trade since I'm a newbie. You are all so helpful...even the ones are swaying me in the different directions...! It keeps me thinking and I so need that!
Meg

newbieinCT · Dec 21, 2013

Here's a few photos I found that we took when we moved in (please ignore all the chaos - we are constantly repairing and moving stuff)

Pic 1 is wood stove on the brick heart - we are going to put the new harman there
Pic 2 you can see more of the turn into the dining room and kitchen
pic 3 is the old pellet stove (yes, that is a freestanding stove on a raised hearth with some ugly red fire board or something behind it and a small fireplace behind that). This room we are going to gut and make all warm and cozy - no more black and white floors or yellow walls. When we get an insert we can probably fit a nice one here - that will be the trade off with husband
Pic 4 - front view of the house so you can see the big windows. Front bottom right window is in the wood stove room, so are the bottom floor-to-ceiling windows on the right side. The other exterior wall has a double sided patio door...lots of windows to insulate so we don't loose those precious BTUs!!

Enigma869 · Dec 21, 2013

newbieinCT said:
Ash pan larger..huge + for me.

Incidentally, I forgot to mention this as part of my post. I can only comment on the difference between the Accentra insert's ash pan and the ash pan in the P68. The difference is astonishing. I just had to run my P68 for 10 straight days, as it's been ridiculously cold (not today...almost 60 degrees), and the ash pan still wasn't full. Running the Accentra insert we had for 10 straight days simply wasn't an option. I can tell you that in addition to the obvious difference in heat output, the difference in the size of the ash pan and the hopper were huge considerations for me. As much as I loved the look of the Accentra, it was a frustrating stove from the perspective that unless you went to bed at midnight and woke up really early, there was a good chance you were going to be out of pellets. The hopper didn't even hold one full bag, as opposed to the P68 that holds almost two full bags. Also, having to shut the stove down every 3 or 4 days to empty the tiny ash pan was tough during those really cold spells. Good luck with whatever choice that you ultimately make.

Lousyweather · Dec 21, 2013

oh! something else! you can have Dalton Memorials personalize a tile for you for the ash door....dress it up with something like....Giada Delaurentis!

chken · Dec 21, 2013

IHATEPROPANE said:
A 50k btus stove on high would burn 3.5 bags a day.
A 61k btus stove on high would burn 4.3.

Has anyone ever read about anybody burning that many bags per day? And if you were you would not be happy having to fill your hopper every 6 hours. Going through 3 tons a month.

My point being I think either one will be more than enough.

I can see the flow going toward the P61, but ihatepropane makes an excellent point. A 50k btu stove like the Harman XXV can burn 3.5 bags a day. That's ALOT. How many people here ever burn that much on the coldest days? The P61 can obviously output more btus, but most have already determined that the house layout will mean it will be difficult to move the heat all around.

My question is, given the house constraints, is having that extra capacity ever going to be used? It's not like the XXV is chopped liver. The hopper sizes are almost the same, and they're both over a bag and a half, which I consider the minimum for convenience. A big ash pan is great, who doesn't love a big ash pan, but I can easily burn a typical week's worth of high quality pellets, over 10 bags, in my stove, and it has an ash pan the size of a tea cup. Now that I picked up the PowerSmith ash vac, it's a breeze to vacuum out the pan, so my one concern, small ash pan, is no more.

Lastly, I was wondering if newbieinCT has considered moving the Kozy stove to the living room and putting the P61 in the kitchen. It all depends upon where you spend most of your time and where you want the heat, and it seemed to me that you might spend more of your time in the kitchen and dining room, than the living room. And, if that's the case, wouldn't it be more likely to get more heat thru the house, from the kitchen stove than the living room one, based upon the layout? I'm sorry for any additional food for thought, but a stove is a large monetary outlay and the choice is not one that one can change easily, so make sure you are happy with your choice.

Almost made a decision...my brain is broken.

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