How would you handle this?
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P38X2
Minister of Fire
I'm 100% certain Harman tests their stoves before boxing them. No, not test burning, but the same test you or I would do using "test" mode.
The incidents of stoves arriving DOA in customers homes is extremely low, but it does happen. It happens with almost anything and everything mechanical/electrical. Yes, it sucks, but at that point the dealer should have the capability to make it right relatively immediately, and also ensure the customer understands that chit happens occasionally and they shouldn't lose any faith in the brand they chose.
I can understand dealers, upon request, curing the paint for customers, because that procedure can suck for various reasons, but I wouldn't want it done to my stove. Do wood stove dealers do this for the same reason?...I wouldn't think so. Would you want to shell out $3000 on a NEW lawn tractor only to find it delivered with dried clippings all over it because the dealer wanted to make sure it worked?
As others have said, DO NOT get another unit from this dealer. I'm all for letting a dealer "make it right", but from what you describe, this is NOT one of those situations.
The incidents of stoves arriving DOA in customers homes is extremely low, but it does happen. It happens with almost anything and everything mechanical/electrical. Yes, it sucks, but at that point the dealer should have the capability to make it right relatively immediately, and also ensure the customer understands that chit happens occasionally and they shouldn't lose any faith in the brand they chose.
I can understand dealers, upon request, curing the paint for customers, because that procedure can suck for various reasons, but I wouldn't want it done to my stove. Do wood stove dealers do this for the same reason?...I wouldn't think so. Would you want to shell out $3000 on a NEW lawn tractor only to find it delivered with dried clippings all over it because the dealer wanted to make sure it worked?
As others have said, DO NOT get another unit from this dealer. I'm all for letting a dealer "make it right", but from what you describe, this is NOT one of those situations.
pell it
Feeling the Heat
Sounds like it is time for Guido and the boys to make a visit to that dealer. Any new concrete structures going up around there anytime soon?
Just Kidding ( in case it was not obvious)
Just Kidding ( in case it was not obvious)
newf lover
Minister of Fire
A big problem is the OP paid cash for the stove, so he cannot stop payment or challenge it with his credit card payment. I think I would call the dealer, say you want the stove removed and your money back in 24 hours, or you will file a complaint with consumer protection, Harman, Better Business Bureau etc. The only chance I would give him to make it right is to get your money back. I hope you have all paperwork, make copies, save every slip of paper. This is why dealing in cash for a large purchase is risky.
newf lover
Minister of Fire
Also, what did you pay for the stove? Did you pay close to the MSRP or was there a big discount? If there was a discount, you might have trouble convincing anyone you thought it was a new stove when you bought it.
your needless sarcasm aside, the title of the post is "How would you handle this?"......there really isn't a right or a wrong answer here, its an opinion-type of post, and, well, as everyone has opinions, they will vary. A lot of unknowns here, although I feel it should be made right, if no one gives the dealer a chance to do so, they cant "fix" it at all.
As I am an old guy, Ive found that the best way to catch bees is with honey rather than with vinegar. The OP was certainly slighted, advertently or inadvertently , but my opinion is to still allow the dealer the opportunity to fix this, satisfactorily to both sides. If no common ground can be found at all, then the dealer should give the OP their funds back, take back the stove and pellets, which, from a financial standpoint makes the OP whole. Then its up to the OP to maybe go to another dealer, or even new brand of stove........certainly a severe learning curve here to, that's fer sure....
A 5 year old P61A, demo unit nonetheless......I wonder what the price for the unit was.......
notch
Member
Take the high road, be nice, and just get your cash back. Then move on.
...as we forgive those...
...as we forgive those...
rcc
Member
notch said: "Take the high road, be nice, and just get your cash back. Then move on.
...as we forgive those..."
I disagree with notch only because the dealer may / will do the same thing to another customer. The dealer needs to realize this is unacceptable.
...as we forgive those..."
I disagree with notch only because the dealer may / will do the same thing to another customer. The dealer needs to realize this is unacceptable.
IHATEPROPANE
Minister of Fire
In some cases I would agree with you, however the dealership is needed for any warranty claim and there is no way i would trust this place to handle that. There is no way they did not purposely give them a 5 year old stove.
Like George Bush said.....fool me once shame on you....fool me twice.....well you are not gonna fool me twice
I think given the situation, Harman would likely arrange warranty work thru another dealer.....we have had to service other dealers' units when the homeowner simply would not allow the original dealer back into their place for work....yea, it does get that bad sometimes. The warranty is supplied by Harman, not the dealer, even tho the selling dealer is SUPPOSED to do the work, special dispensations do happen. When we have to do warranty work on a unit we didn't sell, we simply charge Harman for the work, and we also get travel time, which we wouldn't normally get if we did sell the unit. Same as if the original dealer goes out of business.
If all trust and good faith are lost, the OP should get their money back, and go elsewhere.
If all trust and good faith are lost, the OP should get their money back, and go elsewhere.
Id take the high road if they were willing to immediately give my money back. Then take the road of filing complaints right and left after I had my money in hand.
fmsm
Minister of Fire
The dealer knowingly committed an unfair and deceptive practice. I would tell him he has 12 hours to refund every penny, pay you for your gas picking up the stove, and to remove all of his property (stove and pellets) ASAP. I would also ask for a check for your time. Keep in mind that if you sue him you are likely entitled to punitive damages in addition to actual damages. Request his insurance company information as well. You may need to put a claim against his liability policy. He also may have legal defense coverage, this will also get his attention as his rates are sure to go up by you even contacting his company. I would also tell him you are going to the Attorney General's Office and the local TV stations. Tell him your the nut that will take copies of your documents and stand in front of his store and pass out the copies to prospective customers and tell them your story.....Screw this jerk! Post his name out here so I can call him and tell him he's scum! I'll be glad to!
As others have said, get your money back,
Stop payment if you feel it is the only way to get your money back.
Great investigation on your part.Buyer Seller Beware!
Bill
Stop payment if you feel it is the only way to get your money back.
Great investigation on your part.
Bill
Not a criminal issue, this is a civil issue!
Justin M
Feeling the Heat
Fraud is a civil and criminal issue. The police investigate fraud cases all the time.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I am a member on more forums than I care to admit and the group here is first class.
As a small business owner myself, I understand the costs associated with processing credit cards. When I am dealing with a mom and pop type establishment, I like to use cash. Considering I paid with cash, $3489 to be exact after the $100 coupon from Harman's website, I asked that a brand new stove be ordered. Earlier this morning, I sent another email to verify whether or not the stove has actually been ordered. I have yet to receive word one way or the other. The demo stove hasn't made it into the house yet, so I'm not worried about loading back into my truck and returning it. The pellets, however, I intend to keep for the hassle. They are nicely stacked in my shop and if he wants them back, I will bring up the issue of negligence and/or fraud. I have a receipt that shows 'No Charge' for them, as well. If the dealer will trade me this 5 year old stove for the new one that I want, I'll accept it and move on. He has one chance to make this right.
As for warranty work, I'm not sure how that works out exactly. If a part fails, can I replace it myself or does the dealer have to?
As a small business owner myself, I understand the costs associated with processing credit cards. When I am dealing with a mom and pop type establishment, I like to use cash. Considering I paid with cash, $3489 to be exact after the $100 coupon from Harman's website, I asked that a brand new stove be ordered. Earlier this morning, I sent another email to verify whether or not the stove has actually been ordered. I have yet to receive word one way or the other. The demo stove hasn't made it into the house yet, so I'm not worried about loading back into my truck and returning it. The pellets, however, I intend to keep for the hassle. They are nicely stacked in my shop and if he wants them back, I will bring up the issue of negligence and/or fraud. I have a receipt that shows 'No Charge' for them, as well. If the dealer will trade me this 5 year old stove for the new one that I want, I'll accept it and move on. He has one chance to make this right.
As for warranty work, I'm not sure how that works out exactly. If a part fails, can I replace it myself or does the dealer have to?
Concerning the actual installation of the P61A, the manual states that a vertical run of more than 15' for the vent should be 4" pipe. My house currently has about 25' (two story house) of 3" pipe that runs up a chimney chase. It was used with the old Fabco pellet insert that was in the house for the past 20 years. Should I convert all of it to 4" or punch a hole in the side of the house and keep the 3"? Or, see how it works as is?
Via emial, the dealer told me that, "The stoves warranty is intact with us for the extra time period." How long that extra time period is, I do not know. I received the $100 credit because I had a print out of the coupon. I also received the paperwork for the tax credit.
I see many of you make mention of dealers delivering stoves. That never came up in conversation. Did I screw up by picking up the stove and driving it to my own home?
And if he decides to shut down come spring? You need the mfr's warranty, not his.
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Problem is, I have no idea how many pellets have been run through it.
Are there any other reasons as to why you would want to keep an older one?
Stevekng
Feeling the Heat
There are no reasons to keep the old one, Period. What if the old one isn't a demo, but a return that malfunctioned or one that the dealer took as a trade in. You should see if the old serial number was ever registered before. Further, why can't you simply tell the dealer that you want the stove that is documented on the paperwork you were given If that is the supposed to be new?
IHATEPROPANE
Minister of Fire
You paid $3500 for a FIVE year old stove......you got totally screwed. I see them on CL for usually around 1500-2000
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