Fisher insert help needed...

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

antisoc

New Member
Dec 27, 2013
12
Nj
I just received a Fisher insert for free, and would like to install it into my fireplace.

The hole on the top of the insert is 7 3/4" ID and 8" OD

My flue pipe going up the chimney is 6.25" x 11"

Can I use oval pipe flex pipe or 6" round flex pipe to go up the flue pipe ?

The chimney damper opening is only 5.25" x 27"

I know I have to make or buy an adapter to connect to the top of the insert.
 
You should use an 8" liner. You would have to get that oval to fit inside the existing chimney, but that wont be a problem to find. You should not use a 6" liner, it will be choking down the flue too much.
 
Can I get 8" round liner pipe ovalized to fit in between the 5.25" damper frame or will the damper frame need to be cut ?

Do you know of a few places that sell oval flex pipe ?

Do you know if oval or rectangular ridge stainless pipe is available in sections ? Or is ridge only avalable in round ?
 
Last edited:
A web search for "oval 8 inch chimney liner" comes up with most showing 4 3/4" on the narrow side. There are many retailers and manufacturers to choose from.

You "should" use an 8 inch liner, yes. But a 6 inch flue will also work, depending on other factors and use.

1) Do you plan on open door burning with a screen?
2) Is the installation subject to inspection?
3) Insurance company or local codes involved?
4) Is this a "full size Insert" measuring 21" across front that projects from hearth, and approx 32 1/2 deep with out ash fender (shelf) ?

I ask these due to technically being against code to reduce flue or pipe size from the stove outlet size...... However, these codes were written to avoid reducing the already correct size flue or pipe to avoid a restriction of exhaust flow.

The Insert was made with an oversize outlet like all the "Fireplace Series" double door models to prevent smoke roll in during open door burning with a screen in place. The single door models all use 6 inch due to the inability of open door burning. The success of the "air tight" stove was due to the efficiency of the large firebox with smaller vent. (this later proved to be the problem not passing stricter smoke particulate laws. A larger outlet could have been added taking away from efficiency and burning clean, but the company refused to make an inefficient stove) The largest of the single door series, the Papa Bear, has a slightly larger cubic inch firebox area than the Insert, and was designed for 6 inch pipe and flue. (they were also available with side or rear outlet and obviously draw well with the outlet in those more favorable positions as well) So the cubic inch area of each firebox is compatible with the 6 inch outlet and flue, when used as a radiant heater and NOT in Fireplace mode with open doors. (the manual recommends open door burning with screen attached for 5 to 10 minutes daily since the original installation used the much larger flue that the insert was made to vent into and run much cooler than a lined chimney)

That said, it will physically work, and most have no smoke roll in problems when opening doors with the reduced flue size. You will not have the capability of quite as fast heating up due to the exhaust restriction, but once up to temp they work quite well IF codes that are written from NFPA 211 not allowing the reduction in size is not a factor. There are MANY double door 8 inch outlet stoves in use reduced down to 6 and even continue to work well with a smoke shelf baffle installed as they were equipped in the later versions.

When adding a smoke shelf baffle, (the Insert never had) normally you must make sure the square inch area of smoke space above the baffle is at least as much as the outlet square inch area of the stove. (50.25 square inches with 8 inch outlet) It has been found when reducing to a 6 inch flue, the smoke space can be reduced to the smaller (28.25) square inch area, equal to a 43% reduction in smoke space area with no smoke roll in problems. (with an insulated flue)
There are a few threads and members on the Forum with that set up. Here's a current thread on the subject;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/grandma-fisher.120270/
 
  • Like
Reactions: antisoc
You "should" use an 8 inch liner, yes. But a 6 inch flue will also work, depending on other factors and use. 1) Do you plan on open door burning with a screen? 2) Is the installation subject to inspection? 3) Insurance company or local codes involved? 4) Is this a "full size Insert" measuring 21" across front that projects from hearth, and approx 32 1/2 deep with out ash fender (shelf) ?


1) I don't plan on running the stove open with a screen.....maybe afew times if that.

2) No inspection unless someone reports me. "Hopefully not."

3) No insurance companies involved.

4) Yes, this insert is a full sized ...21" across and approx 32 1/2" deep


I was planning on running 6" oval pipe and making an adapter to connect to the top of the stove. That way if I purchased a new insert in the future...I would have 6" flex pipe allready in the chimney.

But maybe the 8" would be better for this current Fisher insert I have

I see I could also use 8" oval in my chimney flue.

It is available as flex oval 4"x10.5" or 4.5"x10" or 5"x9.75"

If I purchase the 8" or 6" oval pipe, do I install the flex pipe right down the chimney thru the damper frame and then connect to the stove ?

Or should I make a plate to cover the chimney damper opening, and then make a oval hole in the plate for the flex pipe to pass thru ?
 
Size is up to you. 6" will work for your purpose and will be required for a new one. I wouldn't do it twice for the small benefit you get with a larger liner.

Right down and connect to stove.
Unless required by liner mfg., I don't see why a bottom plate to block off chimney is necessary if you're not using it to hold loose or poured insulation fill. But it does have advantages. Seal around hearth opening with a faceplate to hearth front. The adapter you make for attachment is called a "boot" or can be ordered to fit the liner. Use keyword "insert boot" on this forum or using a web search. You can notch it for the damper rod and drill and tap the Insert top to mount.

Damper block off plate article here;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

Stainless Insert Boot.jpg
 
Thank you very much for the help ....!!!!

I will probably just use the 6" oval pipe with no insulation around the pipe.....that way it fits inside the chimney pretty easily.

Would it be ok to pack in some insulation around the oval pipe at the top of the chimney to help keep cold air from getting down into the chimney ?

I wanted to pack the insulation around the top say 18" of pipe, then put a stainless weather proof cap adapter to cover the opening to the chimney.

Similar to this adapter
deluxetop_terr.jpg
 
It is a great idea to install insulation around the liner. It should be installed the entire length. You could also find a stainless steel reducer that will go into your 8" stove and connect to your 6" liner. Give some companies a call, some have custom metal shops that can get that made for you in no time. Then if you replace the stove in the future you can just remove the reducer and connect directly to the 6" liner.
 
I can not really fit in 6" oval insulated pipe because the flue is only a tight 6.25" wide. I was told that the insulation wrap is about 3/4" thick around the pipe.

What is the actual OD of 6" round pipe ?

Does 6" flex pipe measure 6" on the inside or outside of the pipe ?
 
The 6" is the I.D. O.D. is 6.25" You can oval the liner and still use insulation and make it fit. If you take a 6" liner and make it oval to 4.5", add 1/2" insulation, the O.D. would be about 5.5". That leaves you 3/4" to play with. Should be no problem if you don't have any crazy bends in the chimney.
 
If I buy 6" flex, can I oval it and insulate it myself.....or is it something that has to be ovalized and insulated at the factory ?

If I don't insulate the pipe, then 6" round should fit in the chimney...I will have to ovalize the first 2ft to make it go thru the damper opening.
 
Last edited:
You can insulate it no problem yourself. Making the last 2 feet oval wouldn't be a problem either yourself. If you plan on ovalizing the entire length of the liner it should be done at the factory. You run the risk of not making it straight and twisting the liner, making it like a corkscrew, then it will never go down the chimney.
 
  • Like
Reactions: antisoc
Do you recommend a smooth inside flex pipe or a standard corrugated inside flex pipe ? I see some pipe is thicker then others and some are smooth inside.


Can I ovalize the last 2ft of pipe myself if I use smooth inside flex pipe ?
 
Some smooth wall liners you can ovalize yourself with no problem, others need special equipment.

There are 2 ply liners, those are the ones you will have issues with if you try to ovalize it yourself.

There is also a new medium weight liner on the market, it uses .010" thick strip of metal, heavier duty than the 2 ply liners and it can be ovalized with no issue. This is the liner to use if you are planning on using your stove as a main heating source.
 
  • Like
Reactions: antisoc
Do you happen to know the name of the smooth pipe with .010 strip installed ?

Where can it be purchased from ?
 
www.ChimneyLinerDepot.com manufactures this liner. It is called Flex King HD. If you call and ask about it they have more sizes available than what is shown online. It is a newer style liner on the market, some people may have heard of or used a "heavy flex" liner. This is the same construction just with lighter material, much easier to handle but with the same durability.
 
I spoke to one of their techs this afternoon....he told me they only make oval pipe out of 6" or 8" Flex King.....he said they couldn't make oval pipe using flex king HD.

Have you ever used this Flex King HD ? And have you ever ovalized a few feet yourself ? Any problems with it after you ovalized it ?
 
New liner on the market. Probably not much of it out there yet.
 
You are a little mixed up. As of now they only have 6" and 8" available in for the Flex King HD, it can be ovalized.
The Flex king Pro is available from 3"-8", cannot be ovalized. Yes I have used the HD liner, it is incredibly strong.And if you just want to do the last couple feet yourself, it won't be a problem.

You can either roll over a larger size PVC pipe over it or use a 2x6 pressing on it when it is resting on the ground. Just go in stages, dont try to ovalize it all in one step.
 
I guess I did get get the pipes mixed up.. I need 35' of the 6" Flex King HD.... Do you think I could buy a 35' roll and maybe ovalize about 25' of it at my house.....??

They said I could pickup a coil of the REGUALR flex king at the factory to save on shipping.....but they wanted another $200 to ovalize the pipe, then it would not be coiled up ....and alot harder for me to get the pipe home because of its length.

I figured if I could buy the Flex King HD coil and ovalize it myself, I could save the money on shipping and save on them ovalizing it, I could then buy the insualtion wrap and wrap it myself.

I am planning on driving to the factory to pick it up.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.