Ditching the Savannah Saranac

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Mr Tibbs

Member
Sep 11, 2011
22
Utah
I'm done fighting this stove with zero dealer support. I thought I was getting a good deal and helping out a local guy, but as it turned out I think I just got screwed. I have owned the stove for a little over three years now and so far I have had to replace the igniter twice, and now all at the same time the burn pot has failed, the combustion blower is going out and either my high limit switch is failing or the control board is going bad. I'm done fighting this on my own and cutting my losses. I think if I had an ounce of dealer support I would be able to deal with it but I have zero.

So, with the lessons I have learned over the past three years I am going to go with a respected brand and a reputable dealer. That leads me to either Harman or Enviro. I need an insert that will heat aprox. 1700 sq feet. Suggestions?
 
Expensive lesson, but good on you for learning it well. Here at hearth.com, we've warned against this with pellet stoves for over a decade. Unlike wood stove, you can't just figure them out (unless you are an engineer...and even then!).....

Both of those are very good brands. Here is the east there are more Harmans around - therefore more dealers for them also. So if I had to choose a unit with decent support, I'd go Harman. Also, the ability to burn lower grade (hardwood) pellets is a big draw in the east.

However, you should consider local dealers and how long they've been in biz as well as their reputation.

The igniter problem, IMHO, isn't a big one....I've always lit my stoves myself even if they had igniters. But the other problems are harder to solve. Make sure you place a review in our ratings section so others know the score.
 
The igniter issue was only an issue because of the dealer. The first time it went out the stove was still under warranty (1 year parts and labor) so he was supposed to come over and replace it. After two canceled appointments and two no shows I went and got the part myself and replaced it. Because of the sour experience I will not be going back. Also, I worry about parts availability with the off brand stove. At least with Harman or Enviro I feel that there is enough info out there and parts available I can make something work.
 
The igniter issue was only an issue because of the dealer. The first time it went out the stove was still under warranty (1 year parts and labor) so he was supposed to come over and replace it. After two canceled appointments and two no shows I went and got the part myself and replaced it. Because of the sour experience I will not be going back. Also, I worry about parts availability with the off brand stove. At least with Harman or Enviro I feel that there is enough info out there and parts available I can make something work.

Try calling the company themselves. I have a Hudson River West Point. Same manufacturer as your stove...which is actually BAC. I have contacted them a couple of times and they were helpful.
There is a member here SmokeyTheBear that has the same stove as you and is a wealth of knowledge.

As for Harman and Environ, both good brands, however dealer support is just as critical maybe more so for the Harman.
 
Those stoves were indeed dogs. The owner has since switched to Sherwood industries who also makes Enviro And Vistaflame. They were igniter killers and had too small blowers and bad control boards. Call them, they made upgrade kits available to some people.
 
Try calling the company themselves. I have a Hudson River West Point. Same manufacturer as your stove...which is actually BAC. I have contacted them a couple of times and they were helpful.
There is a member here SmokeyTheBear that has the same stove as you and is a wealth of knowledge.

As for Harman and Environ, both good brands, however dealer support is just as critical maybe more so for the Harman.

I did call Savannah heating in Canada to see about getting a burn pot. Estimate for that shipped to the states alone was over $200. If I had an ounce of dealer support I think I would stick with it, but as is I'm done. I eventually would like to fix it up and sell it or sell it as is to recoup some of the money I have dumped into it. I thought Inca Metal was the manufacturer of these and the Hudson River stoves???
 
Inca Metal manufactures the units. they are generic and then get branded by the distributors. There are at least 4 different lines based on the same chassis. The controllers are bog standard, as are the blowers, and igniters.

It really didn't help that there appears to have been no Q/C done to insure that things like jumpers on the control boards were set correctly (I even suspect that this was the cause of a lot of the problems with the stove).

They are a breeze to clean but a bit cramped to work on.

I take it that you didn't have any luck getting a hold of Don.
 
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Inca Metal manufacture's the units. they are generic and then get branded by the distributors. There are at least 4 different lines based on the same chassis. The controllers are bog standard, as are the blowers, and igniters.

It really didn't help that there appears to have been no Q/C done to insure that things like jumpers on the control boards were set correctly (I even suspect that this was the cause of a lot of the problems with the stove).

They are a breeze to clean but a bit cramped to work on.

I take it that you didn't have nay luck getting a hold of Don.

Nope, I tried to call but he didn't answer. I figured he was out for the holidays (and who can blame him!). But in the meantime my combustion blower has started going out and the stove will randomly shut off on it's own. I don't know if I should blame the high limit switch or the control board. Either way, the burn pot and blower alone will set me back around $500 plus whatever else is wrong. That's a good chunk of money to put towards a new stove with a good dealer that actually supports their products! Lol
 
Well you can do what you want. You can't blame anyone for that.

As for me, until I located the primary problems with my stove it was good at chewing up blowers and a burn pot. Rod igniters are not known for long lives if the stove is repeated cycled on and off.
 
So, what were the primary problems and what did you do to solve them? Even if I do get a new stove it would be nice to get this one back to working condition for the next guy!
 
So, what were the primary problems and what did you do to solve them? Even if I do get a new stove it would be nice to get this one back to working condition for the next guy!

The jumper setting that controls the firing and thus the entire electrical part of the stove was incorrect. The controller can be set for three different stove setups, this resulted in overfiring the stove. In addition to that the stove manufacturer had a poor fit for the burn pots in the receptacle this resulted in a burn pot air bypass with pellet buildup leading to a reducing burn (read blacksmiths forge type and metal warping of the burn pot), frequent need to clean the stove (read igniter killer) and early burn pot demise (this was fixed by the addition of a burn pot gasket under the lip of the burn pot. There were also sundry joints that needed sealing (some of which were sealed but the seals broke in transit and some were missed).

Burn pots, igniters, and gaskets are all consumables and are expected to need replacement occasionally.

If the stove becomes overheated problems with blower motors develop, the convection blower will lose its lubrication in less than the recommended lubrication schedule. Electronics packages can become compromised, electronics and heat do not play well together.

ETA: I can continue but would bore too many.
 
I did call Savannah heating in Canada to see about getting a burn pot. Estimate for that shipped to the states alone was over $200. If I had an ounce of dealer support I think I would stick with it, but as is I'm done. I eventually would like to fix it up and sell it or sell it as is to recoup some of the money I have dumped into it. I thought Inca Metal was the manufacturer of these and the Hudson River stoves???

Yes Inca Metals is the manufacturer but BAC is the distributer and the contact when you try to contact Hudson River. They were helpful to me
 
ETA: I can continue but would bore too many.

Do continue I'm all ears!

Third season with the US Stove version Original igniter, burn pot is pretty warped, warranty upgrade convection blower, low temp snap replaced, many gasket replacements and burn pot bypasses fixed.

I think one of the biggest issues is the lack of space below the burn pot for ash to collect before it chokes air flow out.

Spare parts on hand: igniter, low temp snap, conv blower(original noisy one), combustion blower motor (surplus center special), auger motor ( need hole drilled thru shaft. Cross that path when I come to it), and gaskets galore.

Will most likely (budget willing) be upgrading this spring to something with a bit more horsepower. This stove is undersized for our new(to us) house, but no Dino juice yet this winter.
 
please pardon me for taking a tangent here for this small question. seems better than starting a new thread since it's been mentioned here.
....I've always lit my stoves myself even if they had igniters.

i'm trying to puzzle this out for myself.
our igniter failed recently and i've been lighting with a torch. initiating the cycle with the stat.
i've ordered a new igniter.
my wife prefers to have one, and when it's shoulder season it would be a pain for me as well w/o an igniter so we can use the stat.

but it runs all day now (or i only turn it off a few times) and i may as well save the igniter as much as i can.
do i just unplug and plug it in again so the combustion blower starts, add pellets and light?
will it get proof of fire then and start feeding itself? or is that strictly a cool down cycle?

the manual states " a thermostat is required for proper operation of this appliance."


it bugs the hell out of me i don't know how to do this. ;lol
 
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pell it you should be able to put a pile of decent pellets through that stove before you get an appreciable build up.

The trick is to make sure that your air flow comes through the bottom and none of the air bypasses the burn pot by coming up the outside of it.

This is what the gasket added to the Saranac version takes care of, it both blocks the gap around the burn pot and partially blocks the upper row of holes in the burn pot thereby forcing most of the air to come up through the pellet pile and ejecting the ash from the burn pot thus preventing it from building up in the burn pot receptacle at a fast rate. I've managed to run 26 bags through my stove on heat setting 1 - the 1 and 4 lights on, this is a very grungy setting. I could have gone longer but I got sick of looking at the messy window.

You also need to make certain that your controller is set for the correct stove btu production. A good number of them had the jumper actually set for the larger version of the stove line, whoops,

Since one asked there was also a few that escaped with the wrong high limit switch installed.

This creates nuisance shutdowns where as the wrong controller setup causes high limit trips and damage to blowers and possible damage to the controller.

The blowers are also just about the minimum required to operate the stove provided nothing blocks the convection airflow and the convection blower can not handle the controller being set incorrectly without it going out all of the time on high limit trips above heat range 2 with very good pellets or above 3 with average pellets. The air flow isn't enough to keep the heat exchanger under the 250::F high limit.

The fact that your pot is warping makes me think that you need a gasket. My first burn pot warped so bad that it broke some of the welds that held the rim to the pot.

There was at least one member on here that remarked that with his new controller the stove didn't seem to produce as much heat, that would be true if the new controller was jumpered for other than the high btu version of the stove line.

The complaint I have is that the stove is too cramped and that as a result there is more heat related stress on the parts inside the shell than is needed. They actually produced a snorkel to get the convection blower further form the firebox while that helped somewhat it didn't work very well if the controller was set incorrectly. I have the snorkel on my stove.

One of the results of the cramped space is that if the grill work that admits air into the shell gets crudded up with a bit of various amounts of pet fur, etc... the blowers will protect themselves by thermaling off resulting in the stove shutting down.

My second igniter is still going strong but the stove is only cycled once a week. I suspect that it is due for failure shortly as it has been over 3 years, maybe it will last longer because the replacement I installed is shorter than the original.

The POF (low limit, convection fan control) on the stove needs to be kept fairly clean if you use the lowest firing rate as it becomes insulated and doesn't see the temperatures needed to keep the stove firing. I'd also expect this to be a problem at the two lowest firing rates if the stove was subject to several tons without it being wiped off. The stove also becomes sensitive to fines at that rate as the pellet weight being fed drops. With certain pellets you need to install a butterfly damper unit to use the low firing rates.

I've played devils advocate to see what happens with my unit over the last 5 heating seasons and would have done a few things differently than was done, however I see a lot of other stoves with all of the same parts, and issues etc..

As I told Mr. Tibbs in a PC I have a lot of patience and tend run down problems and fix them, I guess it is because I did a lot of trouble shooting in a prior occupation. Now I just clean a pellet stove, make brews, and tell others to clean their stoves.
 
And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help over the years Smokey!! For me it has just come to a point of not being able to trust the stove anymore, and as my primary heat source I need to be able to trust it. I was telling a coworker today that I feel this stove would be great in a shop setting. Seeing occasional use and not needing to rely on it for a primary heat source seems to be ideal IMO.

Again, if I had some dealer support I would probably keep plugging away with it, but as it sits I need dealer backing. Thus my reasoning in going with a different stove. I don't think it's a bad stove, but it takes more patience and tweeking that I can afford right now.

Again, thank you Smoky for helping me in the past. I'm sure no matter what stove I end up with I will still be coming here to pay it forward if I am able to!
 
And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help over the years Smokey!! For me it has just come to a point of not being able to trust the stove anymore, and as my primary heat source I need to be able to trust it. I was telling a coworker today that I feel this stove would be great in a shop setting. Seeing occasional use and not needing to rely on it for a primary heat source seems to be ideal IMO.

Again, if I had some dealer support I would probably keep plugging away with it, but as it sits I need dealer backing. Thus my reasoning in going with a different stove. I don't think it's a bad stove, but it takes more patience and tweeking that I can afford right now.

Again, thank you Smoky for helping me in the past. I'm sure no matter what stove I end up with I will still be coming here to pay it forward if I am able to!

You are welcome and I can understand where you are coming from..

I do rely on my stove, however I try to not have to rely on too many others to fix it.. Other than warranty replacements I tried to not bother Bill at all.
 
please pardon me for taking a tangent here for this small question. seems better than starting a new thread since it's been mentioned here.


i'm trying to puzzle this out for myself.
our igniter failed recently and i've been lighting with a torch. initiating the cycle with the stat.
i've ordered a new igniter.
my wife prefers to have one, and when it's shoulder season it would be a pain for me as well w/o an igniter so we can use the stat.

but it runs all day now (or i only turn it off a few times) and i may as well save the igniter as much as i can.
do i just unplug and plug it in again so the combustion blower starts, add pellets and light?
will it get proof of fire then and start feeding itself? or is that strictly a cool down cycle?

the manual states " a thermostat is required for proper operation of this appliance."


it bugs the hell out of me i don't know how to do this. ;lol

Oh good grief use your stat like a on/off switch, on is highest temperature setting the stat can reach and off is the lowest one. Hopefully your stat never gets joy at the high end. You might want to lower the heat setting (or maybe not).

I'd also use an approved starter on the hand full of pellets you put in the burn pot, you might not have to torch them to death to start them nor keep the door cracked so long that smoke enters the room.

webbie is just an old stuck in the mud like me he has his way and is just yanking on that choke chain around your neck.
 
that's how i do use it. ;lol

but that turns on the igniter. i'm just curious if i can light it manualy (i.e. w/ the torch) without engaging the igniter once i replace the igniter.
even if i don't do it, i'm curious if i can.
 
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that's how i do use it. ;lol

but that turns on the igniter. i'm just curious if i can light it manualy (i.e. w/ the torch) without engaging the igniter once i replace the igniter.
even if i don't do it, i'm curious if i can.

Try this: Turn the T-stat quickly on, then off to get the blower going. Light it manually like you usually do, but turn the T-stat back up only after the green light comes on. I'm pretty sure the control box normally turns the ignitor off when it senses POF (though it may be timed).
My only experience with manually lighting the Quad was one or two tests just in case the ignitor died on us... I don't think the ignitor came on after I turned the T-stat back up.

Edit: It works if you wait for the red light to come on, then turn up the thermostat.
 
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that's how i do use it. ;lol

but that turns on the igniter. i'm just curious if i can light it manualy (i.e. w/ the torch) without engaging the igniter once i replace the igniter.
even if i don't do it, i'm curious if i can.


Waste of torch juice.

I'd use an approved starter and a match but then I don't have any torch juice and have no idea of what pile the torch is in or even if it is here or at camp.

ETA: Wire cutters will take care of that igniter coming on issue :p.
 
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Well, after discussions with a few dealers and a few quotes I'm leaning towards a .......Quadra-Fire Castile insert! The only authorized Harman dealer in the state only has the Accentra 52i in stock. I think that is just too much stove for my small (1700 sq ft) house. The Enviro dealer gave me a really good quote for the Empress insert, but it's three weeks out. Today I stopped by a Quadra-Fire dealer to take a look at them and it looks like they can have a Castile installed early next week. Thoughts?
 
After having a few dealers over to the house the wife and I have decided on a Quad Castille insert that will be installed next week. We feel good about the dealer and met with the installers yesterday. They might have to redo the exhaust that the previous flake installed. Live and learn I guess!
 
After having a few dealers over to the house the wife and I have decided on a Quad Castille insert that will be installed next week. We feel good about the dealer and met with the installers yesterday. They might have to redo the exhaust that the previous flake installed. Live and learn I guess!

The Castille is a nice stove. My only concern would be the hopper size.
 
The Castille is a nice stove. My only concern would be the hopper size.
Our current pellet insert only has a 40lb hopper so we are actually going up in size.

And compared to some of the diehard pellet burners here we barely burn through the pellets. Last year we burned just over 1 ton. Over the summer we installed new windows in the house that has actually brought our consumption WAYYYYY down.

We have been operating the stove manually, but are heavily considering getting a thermostat to run the Quad. I wonder how that will change the pellet consumption?
 
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