brrrr - Progress couldn't keep up

This will bring up more questions than answers right now.
Such as, Are you packing your stove to the gills or just two or three splits at a time?
How big is the area(house) you are trying to heat with this stove?
Is your wood seasoned? what kind of wood is it?
And many more. The others who know more than me will be along shortly so hang tight!

nhorzepa said:

Yesterday it was in the low teens outside and I couldn't get the house over 68 for the life of me.
I'm so spoiled now, 68 feels frigid.

I was actually keeping the door open this morning to let the hit spill out.
And I lifted the soapstone tops.

So we're new to wood burning and have only had our fabulous Progress Hybrid a month...never had an issue getting it too warm until now.

Any tricks to get the PH's heat out faster? (like not engaging the cat or leaving the air totally open)

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How big is your house? How dry is the wood that your burning?

Our house is about 2400 sq. ft. and is a ranch design. The stove is located fairly central in the home. The PH keeps the house quite warm. It is now around 70 degrees in the house and 13 degrees outside. I am getting ready to reload the stove which has been burning for 9 hours. The air is almost totally closed and I am definitely running the cat.

So many variables to consider. I will say that I've changed my burning habits over the last year with the PH and there are many valid ways to burn. Everyone will tell you that dry wood is THE key here.

I have managed to keep our house warm enough - although not over 70 throughout through this cold snap. I've been loading up about every 5-7 hrs. My technique here has been to load on hot coals (400ish surface temps), I push coals sloped to front of stove, then load up as tightly as I can (3-4 year split oak) and let the flames get established at about 1/2 air level. I engage the cat about 2 minutes after loading. Once I see secondaries (10 mins?) I start to shut down the air until it is open just a hair and secondaries are strong. About 3 hrs later most big flame are gone and I increase air to help burn coals - stove stays over 400 until next load.

In another thread we estimated that I'm burning enough wood to average about 40-50K BTUs/hr which apparently is enough for us at the moment (just barely perhaps, but when it is below zero out I'll take it).

These crazy cold days are fewer and farther between with global warming.
It's OK if the stove can't keep up on a handful of times each season. Just turn on your heat to "fill in" the rest.
If the stove meets 98% of your requirements, you're fine.

the additional chill has prompted me to start the little jotul I have upstairs. just too much for the summit, in the basement, to heat and keep comfortable although it did keep it to just below 70....I like it a bit warmer so with the little stove, we can kick the upstairs to 75-80 with just a little fire with a couple of small splits.

binko said:

These crazy cold days are fewer and farther between with global warming.

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A bold statement. Got direct evidence, or just the usual supposition? Perhaps you should reserve unsupported opinions like this for the Ash Can.

To the OP, all you can do is keep your stove top near the max allowable temp, for as much of the day as you can. This means watching it, and adjusting your air control throughout the burn cycle. At some point, your losses will outstrip the BTU/hr capacity of your stove, and you'll have to kick on the boiler. If just an occasional occurrence, then rest assured you have chosen the proper stove.

I would not run the stove with the cat bypassed. You should be able to reach your max allowable stovetop temp with dry wood and the cat engaged. If not, your wood is wet, or your draft is exceedingly poor. Leaving the stove in bypass just sends more heat up the chimney and increases likelihood of overfire.

It was -13F here last night - my big stove can't keep up and when temps are that cold I supplement with the oil heat - especially upstairs where the outside wall forced hot water runs - a lot cheaper to burn a little oil than replace burst pipes. I'll have to do this a few times a year. Cheers!

Pushing the F600 during this cold snap has been a real eye opener and this is my third season running her. I was extremely happy with the fact I hadn't burned but a gallon of fuel oil since the install. That sure changed this week given 17 below in this big old farm house. I keep experimenting with the number and size of splits to try and keep the coals mound down but it's hard to do. Maintaining surface temps in excess of 300 degrees is quite a struggle. I have some seasoned oak (2 years split & stacked) to mix in with the cherry and ash and that helps. I've sure learned a lot in the last few days.

Just keep working at it and things will improve.

The PH has a wide range of heat output, and you have several variables within your control. Amount of wood per load (fill it up!), amount of coals from prior load, how cold you let the stove get since the prior load, how hot you get this new load before cutting back the air, and how much air you give it during the burn.

I need a lot of heat, so I rarely let the PH get below 400 in cold weather, and maybe 450 in real cold. This results in a coal-bed issue - it takes time to get rid of coals, and although they are hot they don't keep the stove as hot as wood that is actively burning.

So... I load onto a bunch of coals (scrape up to the glass, as described above, don't block center air inlet ) when the stovetop is in the 400's. I start initially with 100% air, but am quickly down to half air, and then closed bypass, followed by further air reductions. I seldom close it as soon as Slow1 describes, but everyone's wood and draft are different. Once the bypass is closed and I've settled into a burn, I monitor the stovetop temp and my flue probe. Once a burn has become well-established, use the draft control as your more-heat lever. In the last third of the burn I am gradually giving it more and more air, eventually 100% when in the coal disposal phase.

Since you are new to the stove, I would get the burn started as you have been, and then start working with giving it more air once it is established. The danger with giving it more air earlier, as you experiment, is that it is easier to over-shoot and get the stovetop too hot. With my draft there are no brakes - I can level off, but not slow down.

The upper range of output requires active secondaries - this puts a lot of heat out the front. I also find a big difference between a 500 degree stovetop and 575 or 600 degree top.

Basically, the same stove that will heat your house fine when the temp is normal (24 or over in N. Jersey) just ain't gonna do the trick sometimes when you get these types of temps. Basic laws of physics at play. Looking around the forum today, we have lots of "less heat" complaints. It's probably not wise to figure out ways to overfire the stove, rather use a backup (even add an electric heater, etc.) for those few really cold days.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/know-about-you-and-a-btu/

webbie said:

Basically, the same stove that will heat your house fine when the temp is normal (24 or over in N. Jersey) just ain't gonna do the trick sometimes when you get these types of temps. Basic laws of physics at play. Looking around the forum today, we have lots of "less heat" complaints. It's probably not wise to figure out ways to overfire the stove, rather use a backup (even add an electric heater, etc.) for those few really cold days.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/know-about-you-and-a-btu/

Click to expand...

Amen. My new Heritage does beautifully down to single digits, but the -18 last night and -12 a week or so earlier are beyond its powers to fight. Also, a single-night dip is one thing, but an extended spell of near and below-zero temps like we've been having here is a whole 'nother deal.

Since those kind of conditions are rare here, it didn't make sense to me to get the even bigger stove just to handle a rare but possible situation that comes along once every 10 years or so.

In 100% agreement with the cautionary posts above. Tends to be in this weather that we hear of the house fires.

But re-reading the OP's message, it sounds like sub-optimal running of the PH (wood, technique, abundance of caution, ...).

begreen said:

Our 3 cu ft PE would have a very hard time keeping up with your cold temps. It's not the stove, it's the 88 yr old farmhouse that has way too many non-original windows and poor remodels along the way.

These homes are the legacy of an era of cheap fuel. Don't be afraid to supplement the wood heat with your central heating system or electric if necessary. A bit bigger bill for a few days is better than the cost of frozen pipes. Next spring get an energy audit and start sealing and insulating. It's one of the best investments you can make if you are going to stay in the house.

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My house is similar, though older, dating from around 1850 or so. Not so much cheap fuel but lack of insulating materials when it was built. The previous owners of 50 years did a lot of remuddling, but they put a moderate amount of insulation in the walls and a lot up in the attic/crawlspace, so it's not all that bad. Windows are OK, though not state-of-the-art. Biggest problem is the cold cellar, especially since I had 4 inches of insulation and a ghastly pink wall-to-wall taken off the floor to get down to the wonderful original wide-plank pine flooring. Heavy braided rugs deal with much but not all of that, so I am going to get the cellar tightened up this spring.

On the other hand, I never have to worry about back-puffing or mold from too much humidity.

And yes, I have run the cursed $$-burning boiler in the basement to help out through the worst of this. It, too, is underpowered for this kind of cold stretch, but between the stove and the boiler, I was able to keep things around 70.

Off-topic aside-- this house wasn't built here but was moved, by horses, from somewhere else around 1900. It was very solidly built, with 1-foot-thick walls on two sides and oak siding. Unfortunately, when they put it onto the foundation, it only fit with the foot-thick walls on the east and west sides, instead of north and south!

Stubborn Dutchman said:

Pushing the F600 during this cold snap has been a real eye opener and this is my third season running her. I was extremely happy with the fact I hadn't burned but a gallon of fuel oil since the install. That sure changed this week given 17 below in this big old farm house. I keep experimenting with the number and size of splits to try and keep the coals mound down but it's hard to do. Maintaining surface temps in excess of 300 degrees is quite a struggle. I have some seasoned oak (2 years split & stacked) to mix in with the cherry and ash and that helps. I've sure learned a lot in the last few days.

Just keep working at it and things will improve.

Click to expand...

Your stove should easily run a lot higher than 300, so something not right in what you're doing. Even my soapstone box cruises at 400-450.

begreen said:

Very true. The F600 should be able to cruise at 650F for a few hours at least and then gradually taper down in temp.

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Heck, my tiny Tribute soapstone cruised at 350 with less than perfectly dry wood.

I agree with most statements here, and especially Webbie's.
People tend to forget a stove is a space heater, not really meaning the entire space of the whole home. Most are lucky enough to have the stove heat the entire home and be comfortable. Some like myself must realize that a fairly large square footage of home, even with an optimal open layout, is going to drop in temps when the temp outside gets below a certain point.
I use the "back up" forced air oil burning furnace a few times a year, like in the last couple nights. It is okay with me to have that supplemental heat occasionally to stay comfortable. With the main saving most of the winter burning wood, the little bit it costs to supplement occasionally with the oil furnace, I am only willing to deal with so many degrees temp drop in the house before I kick on the back up. Only happens a few times per winter, but hell yeah I use it if I want. I am happy to save money burning wood, a lot of money. But I am not going to feel cold in my own house for the sake of saving a few bucks.
I woke up to 62-1/2 degrees in the house this morning. With the sun out and not too windy, not too bad for me, but would not want it that temp constantly.
It is not the wood, nor the Summit, it is the fact that it is not a furnace, but an insert (stand alone would be same results), and every stove or insert has its limits. Pushing it too hard to get a few more degrees of heat out of it is not worth the consequences.
Between the sun's solar gain and the stove getting up to temp, I am already up a degree. I am cool with 68, which is where the house will be today most likely.
I would say folks need to be more flexible when burning wood to heat their home. With a wood stove, it is not as simple as setting a thermostat and having a furnace do all the work. And if that is what a person truly desires, then try a wood furnace or boiler for main heat, or just go with a standard oil or gas furnace and be done with it. But be prepared to spend much more on fuel for the convenience.

webbie said:

Basically, the same stove that will heat your house fine when the temp is normal (24 or over in N. Jersey) just ain't gonna do the trick sometimes when you get these types of temps. Basic laws of physics at play. Looking around the forum today, we have lots of "less heat" complaints. It's probably not wise to figure out ways to overfire the stove, rather use a backup (even add an electric heater, etc.) for those few really cold days.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/know-about-you-and-a-btu/

Click to expand...

While I agree - I do think there is a difference between overfiring and trying to get the full rated BTU out of the stove. I have never burned my PH this hard since installing over a year ago. I've never needed to and have been quite satisfied with the temperatures. At the same time I have known it could put out more - I generally get it started and cruise at 300-400 surface temp for 8-12hrs between loads. Clearly this is not going to get me the full 80K rated output, but good enough that I"m happy. This last cold snap has given a test of running the stove in a high to max heat output mode for the first time. I don't desire to overfire but burning in this way is definitely a change in style and the input from other PH users who have done this before is much appreciated as is the opportunity here to share bits I have learned.

Running the backup heat once in a while probably also is a good thing.

I can hit 600/650 with no problem. On a reload, the side loading door stays cracked open about five minutes or so. The air control stays full open for up to twenty minutes, then half way for another twenty. After that it's fully closed or slightly cracked. In three hours or so stove top temp has dropped down close to 300 deg. This old farmhouse is almost 100 years old and over 3000 sq. ft. two story. new windows and insulation/vinyl siding installed in mid 1980's but still drafty. I think the F600 is doing well. It just isn't up to all the cold air sucking the heat away. The draft thru the kitchen doorway to the rest of the house is quite chilly. Also to add, if it's 10 above outside the kitchen temp ranges from 80 to 85. At 17 below, the best I could to was 70 to 74 or so. Good draft with a sixteen ft ss liner.

Another thing to keep in mind is when the temps get this cold, even if you use the supplemental heat with the stove operating normally, you are still saving the bulk of the cost of running the oil/gas/electric, etc. Like most folks, I don't like to hear the furnace kick on during the winter - except when it's bitter cold - for a few bucks the house is warm and no worries about frozen pipes, etc. Most winters this only happens on a handful of days - I'd guess I spend much less than $50/year to run the oil furnace for heat - probably less. That's just fine with me. Cheers!