Jotul c550 Rockland tips thread

Ansky said:

And here I am thinking I was getting pretty good at knowing all about my stove, and now I'm reading about all these modifications and I realize I don't know my stove at all. Such as, what the heck is the "doghouse?" ...aside from where I usually reside, thanks to my wife.

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Dog house is that little square bump between the andirons. Air comes in and through the dog house from a couple holes in the underside of the stove.

bobbyblades said:

ditto on the seal of the chimney itwill suck out that heat. i pulled my stove half way out last year for cleaning and found no roxul no block off . called installer to complain owner came down got mad at his installers .loaded holes up roxul at damper hole reset stove WOW big difference..

my room 14x14 gets killer hot 90's so i temp clamped a 20 in fan to top of door and pointed it down and out into the kitchen to circulate now room at upper 70's i set my air on half and full stove fan and stove stays steady temp with ir gun add 1 log at time if i load a hot fire too many peices at once it will drop the output . just a pain to go over ever hour too maintain

i also made a scoop to keep the ashes from getting into fan when i load wood

also the slower the fan the hotter the mantle gets View attachment 122630View attachment 122631

as for the fan there is another door on the other side so i dont use this way out . im short enuff to miss the fan anyway a little crude but works great ,pulls hot air down and heats the floor in kitchen

i got 3400 sq ft if it gets into the teens the oil kicks in . second floor just too far for this stove so i closed off a few rooms up there ..all depends on circulation and how far each room is from stove .when they invented radiators and baseboards it was heaven .. even heat to whole house .

there's a give and take with a wood burner hot close too cold far away

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BobbyBlades,

How hot was your room getting before you fixed the insulation?

Fonzy said:

Hi Greg,

I woke up to the house at 58 degree's this morning and hot coals in the unit. It is cooling down rather fast. My glass does seem to have a slight tint of brown.

With the choke all the way down (level fully left) I get great secondary burn and a nice flame. The wind outside is effecting my flames, is that normal?

What's interesting is that the brick on my fireplace is very hot and the wood mantle which covers a good part of the brick was extremely hot last night. I don't have the metal plate that directs the radiant heat away from the wood because I met the clearances as per the Jotul installation guide. Do you guys get hot mantles?

Yes, if I stand on a latter the ceiling is pretty warm. What do you guys do to move air around.

I have a very drafty front door that needs to be replaced and I'm beginning to think the unit is pulling air from the front door. I may need a model that uses outside air to feed the fire. The sales person told us it is fed from up the chimney and the installer told us it uses the room air which we were very disappointed to hear.

Thanks,

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Sorry to keep bothering everyone about this but we really want this to work. We took a video of the fire and sent it to the store and they feel the fire looks good. They are coming out this week to take a look at what could be happening and I would like to have some information to make sure I'm not going to be crap talked. So I have a few questions about the behavior of the unit.

I bought some kiln dried wood today and the unit didn't go above 550. Once it hit 550 it didn't last, I put the choke all the way down and it held for a bit but the wood burned down to coals pretty quickly. With the choke down I had a healthy fire and within three hours I'm now at coals that are black and red and the top of the unit is now about 275 degrees (down approximately 250 degrees)

Does this sound normal? If so, then I have to load the stove with kiln dried wood every 1.5 to 2 hours to keep the heat and with the choke all the way down. This doesn't sound right to me, but is this the behavior you guys see?

This link shows a picture (I never signed up for an image host) of my fireplace and the bricks above the unit were 160 degrees and the wood is 120 degrees. The fan was a little less then half to blow the hot air away from the mantle. Therefore, it didn't get hot due to the heat radiating up from the unit. Is this what you guys would expect to see?

I appreciate the feedback, I just want to be prepared for when the store comes out next week.

Fonzy said:

Sorry to keep bothering everyone about this but we really want this to work. We took a video of the fire and sent it to the store and they feel the fire looks good. They are coming out this week to take a look at what could be happening and I would like to have some information to make sure I'm not going to be crap talked. So I have a few questions about the behavior of the unit.

I bought some kiln dried wood today and the unit didn't go above 550. Once it hit 550 it didn't last, I put the choke all the way down and it held for a bit but the wood burned down to coals pretty quickly. With the choke down I had a healthy fire and within three hours I'm now at coals that are black and red and the top of the unit is now about 275 degrees (down approximately 250 degrees)

Does this sound normal? If so, then I have to load the stove with kiln dried wood every 1.5 to 2 hours to keep the heat and with the choke all the way down. This doesn't sound right to me, but is this the behavior you guys see?

This link shows a picture (I never signed up for an image host) of my fireplace and the bricks above the unit were 160 degrees and the wood is 120 degrees. The fan was a little less then half to blow the hot air away from the mantle. Therefore, it didn't get hot due to the heat radiating up from the unit. Is this what you guys would expect to see?

I appreciate the feedback, I just want to be prepared for when the store comes out next week.

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Couple things, store bought kiln dried wood is usually not what you would get from a good hardwood like oak or maple. Plus how cold is it by you tonight? It's 10 F here which tends to eat wood.

My questions; Did you get some heat from the stove? Did you get a good secondary burn when you lowered the primary air? Once lit and the fire is burning pretty well the primary should be backed off in stages but usually don't need to shut down fully unless temps on stove are climbing too high.

Controlling the air is the way to get long burn.

Fonzy said:

Hi Greg,

I woke up to the house at 58 degree's this morning and hot coals in the unit. It is cooling down rather fast. My glass does seem to have a slight tint of brown.

With the choke all the way down (level fully left) I get great secondary burn and a nice flame. The wind outside is effecting my flames, is that normal?

What's interesting is that the brick on my fireplace is very hot and the wood mantle which covers a good part of the brick was extremely hot last night. I don't have the metal plate that directs the radiant heat away from the wood because I met the clearances as per the Jotul installation guide. Do you guys get hot mantles?

Yes, if I stand on a latter the ceiling is pretty warm. What do you guys do to move air around.

I have a very drafty front door that needs to be replaced and I'm beginning to think the unit is pulling air from the front door. I may need a model that uses outside air to feed the fire. The sales person told us it is fed from up the chimney and the installer told us it uses the room air which we were very disappointed to hear.

Thanks,

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Fonzy, I turn on the central house fan to move air around. Maybe I'll run it for 30 minutes, sometimes I forget to turn it off for a while.

I've been working up the courage to stuff the thing from top to bottom to get more than two hours out of 3-4 splits. I don't mind adding a few splits every few hours, but long burns seem to belong to the CAT stoves. I'll call four hours about my max effective heating length, but that's pretty subjective.

Your fires "read" to be pretty good with clean glass and secondaries. With the temp of your mantle, it seems like all the heat must be going up the chimney. My "chimney" is a pretty massive thing, and needs a photo. All the brick will get 90 degrees. As far as the metal trim, I think 200 is the top temp I've seen there.

Fonzy said:

Sorry to keep bothering everyone about this but we really want this to work. We took a video of the fire and sent it to the store and they feel the fire looks good. They are coming out this week to take a look at what could be happening and I would like to have some information to make sure I'm not going to be crap talked. So I have a few questions about the behavior of the unit.

I bought some kiln dried wood today and the unit didn't go above 550. Once it hit 550 it didn't last, I put the choke all the way down and it held for a bit but the wood burned down to coals pretty quickly. With the choke down I had a healthy fire and within three hours I'm now at coals that are black and red and the top of the unit is now about 275 degrees (down approximately 250 degrees)

Does this sound normal? If so, then I have to load the stove with kiln dried wood every 1.5 to 2 hours to keep the heat and with the choke all the way down. This doesn't sound right to me, but is this the behavior you guys see?

This link shows a picture (I never signed up for an image host) of my fireplace and the bricks above the unit were 160 degrees and the wood is 120 degrees. The fan was a little less then half to blow the hot air away from the mantle. Therefore, it didn't get hot due to the heat radiating up from the unit. Is this what you guys would expect to see?

I appreciate the feedback, I just want to be prepared for when the store comes out next week.

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Where are you measuring the temperature? When you say load, how full are you packing it? No way you could load every 2 hours if you are filling her up.
I am also suspecting your heat is going up your chimney. At minimum, you need to stuff the old damper area with Roxul.
Don't give up, and trust us, this unit is a capable heater. Single digits overnight and I woke up to my house at 69, was 74 when I went to bed at 11. Fire started as I was loading it with all the hot coals that were left at 7:30 this morning!

rkofler said:

Where are you measuring the temperature? When you say load, how full are you packing it? No way you could load every 2 hours if you are filling her up.
I am also suspecting your heat is going up your chimney. At minimum, you need to stuff the old damper area with Roxul.
Don't give up, and trust us, this unit is a capable heater. Single digits overnight and I woke up to my house at 69, was 74 when I went to bed at 11. Fire started as I was loading it with all the hot coals that were left at 7:30 this morning!

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I really want to thank everyone for the replies and the help. I don't want to clutter this thread up too much, based on what people have replied it seems like an installation or user problem and not an issue with the unit... I hope. But since that seems to be the case I'm going to move this post to another thread as was previously suggested

To answer a few of the questions.

To measure temp I aim the laser pointer to be about 3 inches into the top air output slot. That was 550 and the door was over 500. The door frame was in the 300's.

My door glass is mostly clean, sometimes I get a slight tint but if I burn it hotter it goes away. I mess with the damper to make sure I'm getting a lot of secondary burn with a little primary burn.

In regards to heat, it is acting just like a regular fireplace. Within a 5 foot diameter you are hot but about 10 feet out it is much colder. The thermometer is about 15 feet away and it is 67 or 68 at the max. Once I saw 70. But next to the unit it is burning hot. I can only keep my hand on the air coming out at the face of the unit for a few moments before it get's too hot.

One last thing, attached is a picture of the area above the unit with the front plate removed. The back side of the metal chimney is touching the brick and if I move it forward I can feel a slight breeze going up. You can also see how open the cavity is and why the bricks in the front are getting so hot.

And thank you again to everyone for all their help

Fonz, sounds like you're burning pretty well. So we have, in part at least ruled out the wood. It's tough to get a true reading w/ the IR the way you descibed, I shoot the flue and have a magnetic thermo laid flat in the air vent.

I see insulation but if you have a breeze going up you are losing heat. I have insulation top (at the cap) and bottom. Good news for you is it looks like you have room to add a metal block off plate.

I would add as much (more) insulation (roxul works well) as you can the area by the damper and put in a block off plate. See if the installer will add insulation to the top of the cap to reduce air flow.

As you indicated post your room layout/circumstances (slab floor etc) in a new thread including ceiling height. Give us a guesstimate on your chimney height.

Fonzy, I really don't know what to make of your situation... the fan keeping the mantle cooler is what I would expect, and your temperature readings on the unit sound about right. My unit tends to run a bit hotter than that (around 800 sometimes) but I would think 500s should be enough to warm up the air in the room with the fan running. My family room (probably smaller than yours) easily gets into the 80s, with the rest of the house upper 60s. When you run the fan, do you feel hot air blowing out from the top of the unit? Could be that there's some issue with it where it's just blowing the air around inside your fireplace.

With regards to the chimney, do you feel a cold draft coming out from under the unit when it isn't running? That's how I discovered I needed to block it off at my old house-- cold air was blasting down the chimney into the room. When I did mine I rolled up the roxul and really stuffed it in there... sounds like yours might be packed loosely.

terpsucka said:

Fonzy, I really don't know what to make of your situation... the fan keeping the mantle cooler is what I would expect, and your temperature readings on the unit sound about right. My unit tends to run a bit hotter than that (around 800 sometimes) but I would think 500s should be enough to warm up the air in the room with the fan running. My family room (probably smaller than yours) easily gets into the 80s, with the rest of the house upper 60s. When you run the fan, do you feel hot air blowing out from the top of the unit? Could be that there's some issue with it where it's just blowing the air around inside your fireplace.

With regards to the chimney, do you feel a cold draft coming out from under the unit when it isn't running? That's how I discovered I needed to block it off at my old house-- cold air was blasting down the chimney into the room. When I did mine I rolled up the roxul and really stuffed it in there... sounds like yours might be packed loosely.

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To bring some closure. As I said, the chimney was resting against the brick and the back of the chimney was getting really hot to the point that it was warming the house. I think this had the effect of conducting the heat away from the unit. So I pulled the chimney forward a bit, it is hard to move, and stuffed a little Roxul behind it. I also moved the edges of it slightly since some corners seems less than desirable. We now got our room to 73 last night and kept the upstairs in the low 60's with 15 degree temperature outside. That is much better results. So I'm going to ask the store to adjust the chimney so we can get some good Roxul on all sides of the chimney and perhaps add some more. I do think I need a blocking plate to prevent the brick from getting so hot from behind. I'm afraid to bring the stove up higher than 550 because the wood is so hot.

Thanks everyone. It was nice to finally sit in a warm room.

Fonzy said:

To bring some closure. As I said, the chimney was resting against the brick and the back of the chimney was getting really hot to the point that it was warming the house. I think this had the effect of conducting the heat away from the unit. So I pulled the chimney forward a bit, it is hard to move, and stuffed a little Roxul behind it. I also moved the edges of it slightly since some corners seems less than desirable. We now got our room to 73 last night and kept the upstairs in the low 60's with 15 degree temperature outside. That is much better results. So I'm going to ask the store to adjust the chimney so we can get some good Roxul on all sides of the chimney and perhaps add some more. I do think I need a blocking plate to prevent the brick from getting so hot from behind. I'm afraid to bring the stove up higher than 550 because the wood is so hot.

Thanks everyone. It was nice to finally sit in a warm room.

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Alright that's an improvement! What wood is getting so hot? The stove can take some temps are you talking about a mantle or something?

jatoxico said:

Alright that's an improvement! What wood is getting so hot? The stove can take some temps are you talking about a mantle or something?

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Yes, the mantle is getting hot. I believe the heat from inside the cavity is heading the bricks from behind and then heating up the mantle which was in the 120 or 130 range last night. I have to see about getting a blocking plate installed.

This is my second full season of owning the 550 and could not be happier. I have a center chimney in a 2,650 square foot house so I purchased the unit to reduce my oil consumption rather than eliminate it.

Have read all 20 pages… a few times which has helped me tremendously solve and avoid many of the small issues a wood burner can run into.

My one question is at what position do most 550 owners have their air control and fan at to get the maximum amount of heat output? To get the most heat out of the unit, I run the fan on high but have played with the air control and gotten different results. Initially I ran the air control at ¾ open and getting temps in the 500-700 (once 800 degrees) range. However more recently I have been running the stove in the ½ to 1/3 open, getting longer burns, better secondaries and more consistent stove temps 450-650.


How are others running their unit to get maximum heat output? Thanks and I look forward to your responses.

Hey there. I've found that where I keep the air control to get optimal heat, depends on the wood I'm burning. If I'm burning a lighter wood, like tulip that is very dry, I keep the air closed almost all the way down. Secondaries go crazy and I get lots of heat in the 750+ range...but sacrifice burn time. If the wood is heavier and a bit higher moisture content, say, 23-24% oak, then I need to keep the air open more...maybe 1/2 open. Stove won't get as hot, but I'll get longer burn times.
But most of the time, like right now, where I have a mix of wood in there, it's about 1/8th open. The more you open the air, the more hot air you are allowing up the flue. So I keep it as closed as possible without smoldering the fire. But if you have really dry wood and an established fire, smoldering is not a problem.

But I'm with you, I love this stove. I loaded up last night before bed and it was 71 in the house and 30 out. I woke up this morning and it was 7 out and 67 in the house (1900 sq ft). My oil heat never kicked on. I love this stove.

fmelani, I think Ansky gave you a good answer especially in the sense that one size does not fit all.

I'll tell you what I do; First I "read" the fire. Is it yellow/white and lively or lazy orange and sooty looking? Orange sooty and it needs more air. Next I check temps.

On a reload if the flame is yellow/white I can cut air. If the temp rises I'm good if it goes down I add air back. I shoot for a peak temp around 650 though I'm no longer worried about hitting 700+.

Once established I'm usually somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 but if the fire wants air it gets it. I still occasionally check the stack to confirm I'm burning clean.

If I am there I adjust the primary air and the fan speed throughout the burn cycle to keep my temps where I want. I almost never run the fan flat out. I prefer a lesser volume of hotter air v. more cooler air.

Ansky/Jatoxico, thank you.

I wanted to give it a few days before responding. I have been cutting the air back in increments of 1/4 after the fire is established. The heat seems to be retained in the firebox better when the air control is cut back. Expectedly I am getting longer burn times, but instead of getting 600 and 700 degree temps on the ss liner (with the IR gun), it is in the 450 to 600 range and the firebox itself through the glass is exceptionally high.


The room the insert is in is maintaining its temperature better and I believe I am getting more heat out of the unit. It is difficult to say, since we have had such a cold snap of single digit weather.


Thanks again.

Weather is warm and sunny for a January day so I ran the SootEater up the liner today. I need two sets of rods to get to the cap. The wife was around so I sent her out to see if the head was making it all the way to the cap which it did. Got about 1/2 coffee can of flakes.

Taking the cast baffles out of the 550 is not the funnerest thing I get to do but it's done. I drop the center burn tube, then the Skamol bricks (careful) then back and front burn tubes. The baffles come and go easiest by sliding towards the center before dropping. Have to sit on the hearth with hands in the firebox so can't see what I'm doing, all done by feel. Usually a little aggravated before I'm done. Sweeps I have used in the past won't drop the baffles at all so even before I had the SootEater I had to do it anyway.

Should do it for the rest of the season - Happy burning.

jatoxico said:

Weather is warm and sunny for a January day so I ran the SootEater up the liner today. I need two sets of rods to get to the cap. The wife was around so I sent her out to see if the head was making it all the way to the cap which it did. Got about 1/2 coffee can of flakes.

Taking the cast baffles out of the 550 is not the funnerest thing I get to do but it's done. I drop the center burn tube, then the Skamol bricks (careful) then back and front burn tubes. The baffles come and go easiest by sliding towards the center before dropping. Have to sit on the hearth with hands in the firebox so can't see what I'm doing, all done by feel. Usually a little aggravated before I'm done. Sweeps I have used in the past won't drop the baffles at all so even before I had the SootEater I had to do it anyway.

Should do it for the rest of the season - Happy burning.

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Why did you remove the baffles and burn tubes? When I did mine in the fall with the sooteater, I simply lifted up the 2 baffles right on top and slid them over to the side. That provided access to the liner. Easy peezy. Am I missing something here?

Ansky said:

Why did you remove the baffles and burn tubes? When I did mine in the fall with the sooteater, I simply lifted up the 2 baffles right on top and slid them over to the side. That provided access to the liner. Easy peezy. Am I missing something here?

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No you're not missing anything but a lot of what falls while sweeping will end up on top of the baffles, Skamol bricks and the ledge that the baffles rest on and you want to get that stuff out of there. In addition I like to brush the top of the fire box which gets a coating of ash. It's usually not too bad but if you never sweep it the built up ash will insulate the metal and you won't get good heat transfer. Same goes for the baffles and burn tubes, they get a little "ashy" (not much) but I like to give them a wipe.

So if you were in a rush you could skip dropping everything once in awhile but I'd pull it all down sometimes at least. If you've never done it and want to, I can talk you through. I learned a few things now that I've done it several times.

jatoxico said:

No you're not missing anything but a lot of what falls while sweeping will end up on top of the baffles, Skamol bricks and the ledge that the baffles rest on and you want to get that stuff out of there. In addition I like to brush the top of the fire box which gets a coating of ash. It's usually not too bad but if you never sweep it the built up ash will insulate the metal and you won't get good heat transfer. Same goes for the baffles and burn tubes, they get a little "ashy" (not much) but I like to give them a wipe.

So if you were in a rush you could skip dropping everything once in awhile but I'd pull it all down sometimes at least. If you've never done it and want to, I can talk you through. I learned a few things now that I've done it several times.

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OK, that makes sense. Yeah, once spring arrives, maybe you can let me know how to do a thorough cleaning. A walk-through would be appreciated.

Ansky said:

OK, that makes sense. Yeah, once spring arrives, maybe you can let me know how to do a thorough cleaning. A walk-through would be appreciated.

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Just to show you, here is an old thread I posted. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/what-i-found-when-cleaning-baffles-pics.92692/#post-1217521

The first pic in the thread shows what I found on the baffle. The creosote in front and to the left (yours) of the phone was on the cast iron baffle.

jatoxico said:

Just to show you, here is an old thread I posted. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/what-i-found-when-cleaning-baffles-pics.92692/#post-1217521

The first pic in the thread shows what I found on the baffle. The creosote in front and to the left (yours) of the phone was on the cast iron baffle.

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Wow. That's crazy. It looks like the nasty, gooey creosote from your liner must have dripped down and landed on your baffles making that mess. Good thing you found it!

Ansky said:

Wow. That's crazy. It looks like the nasty, gooey creosote from your liner must have dripped down and landed on your baffles making that mess. Good thing you found it!

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That was from my first season with the 550 where I started out w/ some decent wood (18 mo locust) but finished with less than great stuff. I had had a mid season cleaning and then had a sweep before starting season two which is when I found that.

Not my proudest moment but in the interest of passing along information and maybe saving someone else from a problem I posted it.

Started doing my own sweeps after that and have not found anything like that since.

Last week I added a metal block off plate, added half a bag of Roxul above and to the back of the firebox. Air from the vent feels hotter given the same stove top temps then before.

While I was apart I did some cleanup etc of the fans. One thing that helped was that I recrimped the 4 rivets on each of the fan heat shields. Mine were loose and vibrating especially at certain speeds. Was able to give the rivets a squeeze with a pair of channel locks. The difference is noticable.

Having lived with the C550 for a month now and reading through this thread twice I do have a question. I get wildly different readings from my ir gun and stove top thermometer. Stovetop thermometer is a Condar Inferno Stove Top Meter (100* to 900*) and my Ir gun is a Kintrex with laser targeting (-76* to 932*). Inferno will read 800* to 900* and the Kintrex will read 600* to 700* with me taking the temp right next to the Condar. Condar is placed in the blower slot upfront just left of center. I have been going by the reading of the Kintrex but figure I would double check.

Is there a better spot for the Condar? Going a few inches in with the Kintrex the temp drops 50*-75* so it looks like it might be at the hottest part of the stove.

Do I believe the Kintrex over the Condar?

Just want to make sure I am not doing any damage to the lovely Jotul.

Thanks!