keeping up with the polar vortex

View attachment 123329 View attachment 123329

Fred61 said:

Same here! I'm spending more time in the basement this winter within feet of the Eko now that I've mounted a TV in front of the treadmill.

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Lol...same here...TV in front of the stairmaster....and after work out and boiler time...this:

Tennman said:

Thanks for thinking of us in the Deep South flyingcow. Our 60 class boiler has been running flat out to keep our old creaky home at 68F. Last nite it struggled to keep 65F in the house. Setpoint at 191F and it's running full bore to keep the boiler at 185-188F.... 0F to 4F where we live is a recording breaking event. Haven't needed storage for the last several days! I guess I've got a load calc on our old house.

Thank heavens this year I've got some no kidding 2-3 year seasoned oak that's plum full of btus. Roads are dry here and schools opening mid-morning... we ain't equipped for real cold.

Let's keep it among friends, but this morning I actually ran propane AND wood to warm the house up.

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Pretty serious potential to raise heck with everything especially ag-business.

Also, i would think the plumbing and heating trades must be at a very busy time.

infinitymike said:

I seem to be handling the blast pretty well.
Temps here on LI a bit higher but not much.
I live on the north shore 1 mile from the water and get good north west winds off the LI sound.

I load the WG e100 at 10:30pm to the top and wake up at 6am to house holding temps at 67* with a nice bed of coals in the box waiting for the next load.
Then I load box again and come home at 3pm and find house holding 70* and another nice bed of coals waiting for the next load to make it to 10:30 pm.

Heating a 2700 sq ft house built in 1951 and remodeled in 1975. So it's insulated like a wiffle ball. And I'm nice and toasty with NO storage and no more creosote in my firebox than I've seen in any other units posted here.


Nice machine you got there AHS.

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Mike, holding temps here at 68 DegF for the most part as well. At -12 DegF last week was able to hold 68 DegF but interestingly enough last night with lows down to around -3 temp was at 66 DegF this morning. Perhaps wind has larger bearing than I thought. What I have found is that as long as I keep heat output up I can hold. If I have my thermostat setback to 66 at night it takes forever to catch up next morning when near 0 DegF. Definitely using more wood though. By the way, it is nice to hear positive feedback from someone without storage like myself. I too have no issues with creosote nor heating without storage. I can get an 8-12 hour burn depending on ambient and species so loading three times a day without having to light new fire is convenient to me and to be honest I like tinkering/tending to the boiler all day. I often think that for those with storage that have to light a new fire everyday this would become tedious. In this cold weather my idle cycles are normally anywhere from 20-40 minutes. Anyhow, nice to know that there are others out there that aren't 'shamed' by those of us without storage.

Coal Reaper said:

i am using a bumble bee set-point circ for storage to house loop. once the system is up to temperature 10-20 minutes after a call for heat, the BB is moving ~3.5gpm from storage. the loading unit moves more than this but i forget what the gpm value is. so both are getting heat and it climbs to 180* supply. when the storage is getting close to full charge my supply temp increases if there is still a high load at the house. boiler is in the barn so no ambiant heat is felt by house. i could increase the flow rate on the BB but then it would pump too fast at lower storage temps when the house is merely maintaining temperature.

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I have the low tech solution , boiler feeds house and storage with a simple pipe tee. Storage circulator runs faster than house (medium vs low setting). So,
If boiler is hot then circulator is running and water is provided to house right from boiler with always a little going into the tank ( top ) because of the higher flow, the house returns to the tank bottom so whatever is left still helps raise tank temps.

When boiler is cold/off the input is closed and house if forced to draw from tank top and return to tank bottom. Seems to work well I never have to worry about heating up the tank to get the house warm.

I posted in another thread, I think the boiler is saving me from a furnace system that is under designed and can't normally keep up at -10.

Went from an average of 2 bags of pellets per day to a little over 3. This weather SUCKS heat out of houses.

Of course.....it doesn't help matters any that my house runs 72* either

heaterman said:

Went from an average of 2 bags of pellets per day to a little over 3. This weather SUCKS heat out of houses.

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This whole season has been killing me, i'll be lucky to last through January with the wood I have left, Using more that in past years.

We had -22 for a couple days with very high winds. The most wood I burned to heat for a 24 hour day to heat our 2800 sq ft was 220lbs. Still had some left in the tank at 155 top and 140 bottom

To keep that in perspective, Last year I weighed a unsplit piece of Cherry that had dried in my boiler room for the winter.

13" inch diameter
17" long
44lbs
18% after splitting open

gg

mwk1000 said:

This whole season has been killing me, i'll be lucky to last through January with the wood I have left, Using more that in past years.

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I can tell you that every single customer we have talked with has said the same thing.
It doesn't matter if they are burning wood, oil, gas or pellets. Fuel use across the board is up around 25-30% from what I see and hear.

heaterman said:

I can tell you that every single customer we have talked with has said the same thing.
It doesn't matter if they are burning wood, oil, gas or pellets. Fuel use across the board is up around 25-30% from what I see and hear.

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Last couple years my folks have taken to letting the oil do the work until after the holidays, then they fire up the wood boiler (for some reason). They've got a new Buderus so I guess they want to run it. Last year about this time they got a fillup, and they figured the past 1-2 months cost them about $15/day for oil. Last week they got a fill up, and figured about $20/day for about the same time period. Sounds like there's a consensus happening.

mwk1000 said:

This whole season has been killing me, i'll be lucky to last through January with the wood I have left, Using more that in past years.

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Same here. About 1 cord left that should get me through January but then I would be tapping into wood allocated and drying for next year that was C/S/S this early summer. As a backup there is a green renewables factory (they package and sell the bagged firewood at the convenient type stores) 5 minutes down the road that sales kiln dried hardwood by the cord for $240. Stuff is like rocket fuel but is great for mixing with higher moisture content wood. Higher price than the going price of $180 cord green (or advertised as seasoned) but at least it is guaranteed to be dry.

Guaranteed to be cheaper than any fossil fuel too.

KenLockett said:

Mike, holding temps here at 68 DegF for the most part as well. At -12 DegF last week was able to hold 68 DegF but interestingly enough last night with lows down to around -3 temp was at 66 DegF this morning. Perhaps wind has larger bearing than I thought. What I have found is that as long as I keep heat output up I can hold. If I have my thermostat setback to 66 at night it takes forever to catch up next morning when near 0 DegF. Definitely using more wood though. By the way, it is nice to hear positive feedback from someone without storage like myself. I too have no issues with creosote nor heating without storage. I can get an 8-12 hour burn depending on ambient and species so loading three times a day without having to light new fire is convenient to me and to be honest I like tinkering/tending to the boiler all day. I often think that for those with storage that have to light a new fire everyday this would become tedious. In this cold weather my idle cycles are normally anywhere from 20-40 minutes. Anyhow, nice to know that there are others out there that aren't 'shamed' by those of us without storage.

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Ken,
Its even nicer to have a person who has a gasifier that is required to have storage not have storage and brag about how well he is doing.

I haven't had to start a new fire in what seems like forever.
I have digital programable stats and they are set for both floors to hold 67* from 11pm to 5:15am and the first floor at 70* from 5:15am to 11pm. 2nd floor at 70* from 5:15am to 8:00 am then back to 67* until 7:30pm
It takes about 2 hours on a regular winter morning to bring house up 3* and about 2.5 hours the last couple mornings.

The WG will run nonstop for about 1.5 hours then hit its operating set point of 200* and shut down for 15 or so minutes until the 30* differential trips and it cycles on again for another 20 or so minutes until it shuts down again for a few hours. House will be up to temp and stay there for a few hours and then the WG will turn on to satisfy the house stat.
During a normal winter day it may turn on 3-4 times in an 8-9 hour period to satisfy house temps.
The last few days the house has been dropping temps a bit quicker so it cycles on 1-2 more times during the day.
Because of the cold I've been home all day doing estimates for my business and have had a lot of time to monitor it.

Anyway. Thanks for coming out of the no storage closet.

maple1 said:

Guaranteed to be cheaper than any fossil fuel too.

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I guestimate that an honest cord of kiln-dried is equivalent to between 150 and 175 gallons of fuel oil. At $3.89 per gallon of fuel oil per my last check this equates to between $583 and $681 equivalent cost. $240 is a bargain and it is delivered. I just have to stack it. to be honest though, I'm tempted to just have it dumped at my Bilco doors and bring it into the basement as needed. For the most part I process all my firewood off my 18 acres but it truly is a time consuming endeavor and you have to love it. I'm a self admitting member of the firewood hoarding club. With life's commitments its just hard to get ahead of the curve.

Wow a night above 0, must be the beginning of the January Thaw! I'm enjoying my Eshland E140 wood gun (now that I'm getting ahead of the learning curve). No problems heating over 2000 sqft to 70* inside @ -15 outside thanks to 10 cft firebox. Sorry guys the only storage here is the 80 gal the WG holds (maybe someday). This is my first year with the old WG, after an 11th hour install in the beginning of December when my trusty 30 year old Van Wert Simplex Multitherm cashed it in...I have to say coming from a conventional wood boiler to a gasser is amazing, it makes a cold snap no big deal. I would have to say the the WG is using at the min 30% less wood than my Van Wert and not even a hint of a chimney fire! Bring on the Polar vortex.

Our temperature data, below 0 days only, but staying warm:

HDD Base 70
2013-11-01,1289 +8% over 2012
2013-12-01, 2083 +23% over 2012

Dec LO HI
5 -9 12
6 -17 0
7 -29 -6
8 -29 -5
9 -15 0
10 -13 1
11 -24 -6
12 -11 10
13 -2 7
14 -9 5
15 -17 -6
16 -6 26
17 -11 28
18 -2 27
19 -2 18
20 -13 12
22 -4 9
23 -27 -2
24 -31 8
29 -26 -1
30 -27 -2
31 -29 -9

Jan LO HI
1 -24 -6
2 -33 -2
3 -18 19
4 -15 21
5 -29 -11
6 -26 -17
7 -24 -2
8 -31 1

infinitymike said:

Ken,
Its even nicer to have a person who has a gasifier that is required to have storage not have storage and brag about how well he is doing.

I haven't had to start a new fire in what seems like forever.
I have digital programable stats and they are set for both floors to hold 67* from 11pm to 5:15am and the first floor at 70* from 5:15am to 11pm. 2nd floor at 70* from 5:15am to 8:00 am then back to 67* until 7:30pm
It takes about 2 hours on a regular winter morning to bring house up 3* and about 2.5 hours the last couple mornings.

The WG will run nonstop for about 1.5 hours then hit its operating set point of 200* and shut down for 15 or so minutes until the 30* differential trips and it cycles on again for another 20 or so minutes until it shuts down again for a few hours. House will be up to temp and stay there for a few hours and then the WG will turn on to satisfy the house stat.
During a normal winter day it may turn on 3-4 times in an 8-9 hour period to satisfy house temps.
The last few days the house has been dropping temps a bit quicker so it cycles on 1-2 more times during the day.
Because of the cold I've been home all day doing estimates for my business and have had a lot of time to monitor it.

Anyway. Thanks for coming out of the no storage closet.

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Mike, very interesting. The differential and thus idle cycle periods with the WG appear to be wider that the Tarm. As you can see from a trend of a typical night below (5-32 DegF), A typical full cycle for me is about one hour on average, 10-30 minutes of firing and 20-40 minutes of idle. On an average 8 hour night I would average about 8 cycles. the units on the left side of the trend are DegF for the Flue and Boiler Supply Temps and Minutes for the Idle Cycle Timer. As the outdoor temps rise above 32 my idle periods extend to as high as 1 hour.

I wish I had the ability to adjust a my differential. I would prefer a higher diff like yours of 30 DegF. Mine is between 8 DegF and 10 DegF. The system holds 55 gallons. Perhaps that is why the diff is lower. Is your capacity larger? Someday when the control board warranty expires I am going to tap into it and attempt to automate fan control from my PLC based controller that now only monitors and provides low/high/reload alarms for supply and flue temps.

Warm front coming through for the next week or so so hope to catch up on my wood consumption a bit. By the way, to achieve the 8 hour burn you see below uses one wheel barrow of wood (approx 4-5 cu ft) that is mix of soft and harder species hardwood. How about your consumption on a typical load?

Take Care.

jebatty said:

Our temperature data, below 0 days only, but staying warm:

HDD Base 70
2013-11-01,1289 +8% over 2012
2013-12-01, 2083 +23% over 2012

Dec LO HI
5 -9 12
6 -17 0
7 -29 -6
8 -29 -5
9 -15 0
10 -13 1
11 -24 -6
12 -11 10
13 -2 7
14 -9 5
15 -17 -6
16 -6 26
17 -11 28
18 -2 27
19 -2 18
20 -13 12
22 -4 9
23 -27 -2
24 -31 8
29 -26 -1
30 -27 -2
31 -29 -9

Jan LO HI
1 -24 -6
2 -33 -2
3 -18 19
4 -15 21
5 -29 -11
6 -26 -17
7 -24 -2
8 -31 1

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That is COLD

KenLockett said:

Mike, very interesting. The differential and thus idle cycle periods with the WG appear to be wider that the Tarm. As you can see from a trend of a typical night below (5-32 DegF), A typical full cycle for me is about one hour on average, 10-30 minutes of firing and 20-40 minutes of idle. On an average 8 hour night I would average about 8 cycles. the units on the left side of the trend are DegF for the Flue and Boiler Supply Temps and Minutes for the Idle Cycle Timer. As the outdoor temps rise above 32 my idle periods extend to as high as 1 hour.

I wish I had the ability to adjust a my differential. I would prefer a higher diff like yours of 30 DegF. Mine is between 8 DegF and 10 DegF. The system holds 55 gallons. Perhaps that is why the diff is lower. Is your capacity larger? Someday when the control board warranty expires I am going to tap into it and attempt to automate fan control from my PLC based controller that now only monitors and provides low/high/reload alarms for supply and flue temps.

Warm front coming through for the next week or so so hope to catch up on my wood consumption a bit. By the way, to achieve the 8 hour burn you see below uses one wheel barrow of wood (approx 4-5 cu ft) that is mix of soft and harder species hardwood. How about your consumption on a typical load?

Take Care.

View attachment 123391

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The WG has a 60 gallon water supply in and of itself plus what ever the piping and heat emitters carry.
The fire box is 6.5 cubic feet.
Obviously there is no way to fit exactly 6.5 cf in the box due to size and shape of splits so I assume that a full load will be about 5 cf
I don't weigh my wood and I stopped logging (on paper) when I would reload and how splits I put in.
I always fill the box for an overnight run, but will adjust the quantity of the load during the day, based on temps, my schedule, my wife schedule etc.

With cycle times like that, I now understand why other units require storage.
I've seen the WG sit off (idle) for 5 or more hours before the differential is reached and then turns back on.
And with the help of the Gremlins (which only come with a WG) I've seen it relight itself after those long extended periods.

I am real happy the temps are rising a bit. We just ain't use to this stuff here on the island.

I'm real happy with the performance of the WG under this Polar Vortex, aka winter, and am even happier that I haven't burned any oil and have been super toasty!

Green Mt Heat said:

Wow a night above 0, must be the beginning of the January Thaw! I'm enjoying my Eshland E140 wood gun (now that I'm getting ahead of the learning curve). No problems heating over 2000 sqft to 70* inside @ -15 outside thanks to 10 cft firebox. Sorry guys the only storage here is the 80 gal the WG holds (maybe someday). This is my first year with the old WG, after an 11th hour install in the beginning of December when my trusty 30 year old Van Wert Simplex Multitherm cashed it in...I have to say coming from a conventional wood boiler to a gasser is amazing, it makes a cold snap no big deal. I would have to say the the WG is using at the min 30% less wood than my Van Wert and not even a hint of a chimney fire! Bring on the Polar vortex.

Click to expand...

Good to see you have worked things out!

infinitymike said:

The WG has a 60 gallon water supply in and of itself plus what ever the piping and heat emitters carry.
The fire box is 6.5 cubic feet.
Obviously there is no way to fit exactly 6.5 cf in the box due to size and shape of splits so I assume that a full load will be about 5 cf
I don't weigh my wood and I stopped logging (on paper) when I would reload and how splits I put in.
I always fill the box for an overnight run, but will adjust the quantity of the load during the day, based on temps, my schedule, my wife schedule etc.

With cycle times like that, I now understand why other units require storage.
I've seen the WG sit off (idle) for 5 or more hours before the differential is reached and then turns back on.
And with the help of the Gremlins (which only come with a WG) I've seen it relight itself after those long extended periods.

I am real happy the temps are rising a bit. We just ain't use to this stuff here on the island.

I'm real happy with the performance of the WG under this Polar Vortex, aka winter, and am even happier that I haven't burned any oil and have been super toasty!

Click to expand...

It sounds like our physical boiler parameters are very close. I have a 55 gallon supply plus piping and a 5.5 cf firebox. If I could just adjust the doggone delta from 8-10 to 30 DegF like yours I probably would have fewer idle cycles as well. One nice thing about shorter cycling is that generally the flue temps and thus the heating output are up very quickly after each idle cycle. Plenty of solar heating today and warmer temps and just cranked up thermostat to appease my wife. By the way I work from a home office as an engineer and am here everyday for the most part and have plenty of time to tend the thing. Yeah, travelling makes it a little tougher. Wife just doesn't seem to get it so I generally get a lot of bridging when she loads!! Ugh!!

infinitymike said:

Anyway. Thanks for coming out of the no storage closet.

Click to expand...

KenLockett said:

I often think that for those with storage that have to light a new fire everyday this would become tedious

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Please don't take the "storage...no storage" as an "us VS them" dispute. It's not "HA HA HA I have storage and you don't. The people that took the plunge and installed storage are just trying to send the message to those who have not installed it what it has done for them. At least that has been my mission. I don't care if you have storage or not. It's difficult to see the virtues until you try it. I'm not trying to sell it to you. Just trying to help.

If you believe that lighting a fire every day is tedious then you are not going about it correctly. I've mentioned it several times here that I attempt to leave charcoal in my firebox at the end of my daily burn. Next day's lighting procedure is: rake the coals over the nozzle, load as much wood as you want or need, close firebox door, light charcoal up through nozzle for 30 to 45 seconds, remove torch, close door, start fan and walk away. I know it sounds like a long procedure but it's only 30 to 45 seconds longer than adding your fuel load. I do it every day in the coldest months. It's easier than putting my socks on.

The Wood Gun is even easier. If you have 2 or three coals laying on the nozzle just wad up a couple pages of newspaper, light it and throw it over the coals. Presto you're ready to add wood. That fast moving draft will have those coals glowing in no time and that's all you need if at least one of your logs makes contact with the coals.

One advantage that I haven't put forth is that I can take down and clean my boiler any day of the week. If I find myself with a few extra minutes I can open it up, remove the turbs and brush the tubes. It's usually cool by morning so I basically have all day up 'til 4:00 PM when I usually start my daily burn.

KenLockett said:

It sounds like our physical boiler parameters are very close. I have a 55 gallon supply plus piping and a 5.5 cf firebox. If I could just adjust the doggone delta from 8-10 to 30 DegF like yours I probably would have fewer idle cycles as well. One nice thing about shorter cycling is that generally the flue temps and thus the heating output are up very quickly after each idle cycle. Plenty of solar heating today and warmer temps and just cranked up thermostat to appease my wife. By the way I work from a home office as an engineer and am here everyday for the most part and have plenty of time to tend the thing. Yeah, travelling makes it a little tougher. Wife just doesn't seem to get it so I generally get a lot of bridging when she loads!! Ugh!!

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Perfect example of average day.
Its 25* and sunny here.
The WG shut down around 7am after bringing house to 70*
Its 10:42 and the 1st fl zone is calling for the first time and the WG just kicked on.
3 hours 45 minutes later with NO help from me the WG is burning away with a red hot fire.
There is a good bed of coals and 2 skeleton splits from the 1/2 load I put in at 6am which was put in on a very empty but still hot enough firebox to get it going again.
I was out last night at the Garden watching the Nitro circus and my wife only put in a half load for the evening. Not too surprised it made it through the night.
I just added one 4x5x24 split. Should be good for another 3-4 hours.

Fred61 said:

Please don't take the "storage...no storage" as an "us VS them" dispute. It's not "HA HA HA I have storage and you don't. The people that took the plunge and installed storage are just trying to send the message to those who have not installed it what it has done for them. At least that has been my mission. I don't care if you have storage or not. It's difficult to see the virtues until you try it. I'm not trying to sell it to you. Just trying to help.

If you believe that lighting a fire every day is tedious then you are not going about it correctly. I've mentioned it several times here that I attempt to leave charcoal in my firebox at the end of my daily burn. Next day's lighting procedure is: rake the coals over the nozzle, load as much wood as you want or need, close firebox door, light charcoal up through nozzle for 30 to 45 seconds, remove torch, close door, start fan and walk away. I know it sounds like a long procedure but it's only 30 to 45 seconds longer than adding your fuel load. I do it every day in the coldest months. It's easier than putting my socks on.

The Wood Gun is even easier. If you have 2 or three coals laying on the nozzle just wad up a couple pages of newspaper, light it and throw it over the coals. Presto you're ready to add wood. That fast moving draft will have those coals glowing in no time and that's all you need if at least one of your logs makes contact with the coals.

One advantage that I haven't put forth is that I can take down and clean my boiler any day of the week. If I find myself with a few extra minutes I can open it up, remove the turbs and brush the tubes. It's usually cool by morning so I basically have all day up 'til 4:00 PM when I usually start my daily burn.

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Believe me, I definitely don't want another thread brought down to a battle of "us vs them".

Storage is still on my wish list, but unfortunately it's far down on the list since kids college tuitions, mortgage, food and other things come first!
Thank goodness oil ISN"T on that list of expenses!