EPA - New Rules, Many Stoves will become obsolete

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SmokeyTheBear said:
Take that big number and lop off the last 9 zeros and divide it by 1.3 and you have the per ca-pita coal burning rate in pounds in China.

Take tj's figure and divide by 2 to get the same figure for his case.
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Actually China has BANNED the burning of coal for domestic use because they need every pound for power generation. Welcome to Communism. Did they do that in France, Damien? No, that's right. France built a huge number of nuclear reactors and then drove the people to cut back on electrical use. They cut back so much that they had to shut down half the reactors because there was not enough demand. BIG GOVERNMENT AT WORK!
 
tjnamtiw said:
Actually China has BANNED the burning of coal for domestic use because they need every pound for power generation. Welcome to Communism. Did they do that in France, Damien? No, that's right. France built a huge number of nuclear reactors and then drove the people to cut back on electrical use. They cut back so much that they had to shut down half the reactors because there was not enough demand. BIG GOVERNMENT AT WORK!
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That is why I do not need so much government involvement. Last fall I was told by the city code enforcer that black home grown raspberries were weeds and i had to remove them from my yard.
 
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DamienBricka said:
That is why I do not need so much government involvement. Last fall I was told by the city code enforcer that black home grown raspberries were and i had to remove them from my yard.
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That's crazy! Vote those bastards out! What happens when we have more food shortages or we keep printing money and no one can afford to buy food? Oh, we're there now!
 
RKS130 said:
Anyone have any idea how current models stack up against the new standards?
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I'll bet this will boost stove sales before the new regulations go into effect. You just know that the new stoves will be more expensive because of the new designs. I will make sure that I replace my stoves with the pre- regulation ones.
 
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Bioburner said:
Simple wording can change how the stoves are regulated, "sale,service or transfer of any unit will have to meet standards" could make all stoves come up to any new standards in time.
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Which means a very large amount of the stoves currently burning will not be able to be serviced or sold with a home... if that wording is used.
Dirty Dave posted this link in another thread - lots wouldn't meet the standard of 1.3.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/indoor_woodsmoke/pdfs/Wood_Pellet.pdf

On average, what I have noticed is the higher BTU stoves have a corresponding higher pm value - so you could have 3 or 4 small pellet stoves but not one larger one? Any consideration to particulate matter to BTU ratio?
 
Lake Girl said:
Which means a very large amount of the stoves currently burning will not be able to be serviced or sold with a home... if that wording is used.
Dirty Dave posted this link in another thread - lots wouldn't meet the standard of 1.3.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/indoor_woodsmoke/pdfs/Wood_Pellet.pdf

On average, what I have noticed is the higher BTU stoves have a corresponding higher pm value - so you could have 3 or 4 small pellet stoves but not one larger one? Any consideration to particulate matter to BTU ratio?
Click to expand...

I would not be one bit surprised if that wording DOES get included somewhere in the 1000 pages! 'We have to pass it to see what's in it' once again is uttered in the House of Morons.
 
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smwilliamson said:
There is an oportunity for public comment on Feb 26th, go and make yourself heard all you "Haters" :p
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In our industry we are very vocal with legislation, it is appreciated by both sides. Get up & heard.
 
I love it when the Executive branch thinks it is the Legislative branch of government. :mad:

I don't care if these regs are the greatest ideas since sliced bread. There is zero accountability when the EPA can rule by fiat.
 
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Lake Girl said:
Which means a very large amount of the stoves currently burning will not be able to be serviced or sold with a home... if that wording is used.
Dirty Dave posted this link in another thread - lots wouldn't meet the standard of 1.3.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/indoor_woodsmoke/pdfs/Wood_Pellet.pdf

On average, what I have noticed is the higher BTU stoves have a corresponding higher pm value - so you could have 3 or 4 small pellet stoves but not one larger one? Any consideration to particulate matter to BTU ratio?
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What, and make sense?
DamienBricka said:
That is why I do not need so much government involvement. Last fall I was told by the city code enforcer that black home grown raspberries were weeds and i had to remove them from my yard.
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I got told by the local government agronomist that my field was full of English origin grass and was to destroy it. Week latter it headed out and was Rye. Good thing the BATF didn't see that as I would probably have had to have a distillers permit.:)
 
ZBrooks said:
I love it when the Executive branch thinks it is the Legislative branch of government. :mad:

I don't care if these regs are the greatest ideas since sliced bread. There is zero accountability when the EPA can rule by fiat.
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Tell that to the folks in Riverton, Wyoming! How can the EPA do that? Talk about over-reach of authority!
 
velvetfoot said:
Do the proposed regs affect coal?
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Nope, wood only:
"Today’s proposed rule would not affect existing woodstoves and other wood-burning
heaters currently in use in people’s homes. The proposal also would not apply to outdoor
fireplaces, pizza ovens, barbecues or chimineas, and it would not apply to new or existing
heaters that are fueled solely by oil, gas or coal. In addition, the proposal would not prohibit
or restrict the use of wood-burning appliances for residential heating."

And fireplaces are exempt because "they are not effective heaters".
 
TJNAMTIW, What is this Riverton Wyoming thing you talk about ? any articles ???
 
I have been waiting for somebody to mention that new standards were developed seven years ago and the EPA has been holding off and now many states and independent organizations are suing them to get them off the dime implementing them.
 
BrotherBart said:
I have been waiting for somebody to mention that new standards were developed seven years ago and the EPA has been holding off and now many states and independent organizations are suing them to get them off the dime implementing them.
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True. And the new PFI standards were part of this. From the EPA website:


MilestoneDate
Initiated09/11/2009
NPRM: Sent to OMB for Regulatory Review07/25/2013
NPRM: Received by OMB07/26/2013
NPRM: Regulatory Review Concluded01/02/2014
NPRM: Published in FR01/2014 (projected)
 
Stevekng said:
You just know that the new stoves will be more expensive because of the new designs. I will make sure that I replace my stoves with the pre- regulation ones.
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And used prices will probably go up too.

The Impact Analysis says the EPA estimates new stoves will become 4.3% to 10.7% more expensive because of these new regulations.
 
If I remember, Romney said he would reign in the EPA in order to create jobs............ The other guy let go of the reigns!
 
smwilliamson said:
The double auger stoves from Englander come in at 2.4 grams I think. Box stores will have a tougher time competing.
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we're working on it ;) the other manufacturers got in to the big box by underbidding us. not because they had better stats.

ive started digesting the requirements (aint easy to sit and read, very dry stuff) when the rubber hits the road though , we'll be there aint gonna be easy , but its going to get done, that's how we roll at ESW
 
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BrotherBart said:
Not yet. I love some of these threads where people start complaining because new stoves will be more efficient. And nothing they already have is going to be affected.
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the term is "ex post facto" and its specifically forbidden in the Constitution. most folks know of it as the "grandfather clause"
 
"ex post grandpa".
 
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Just like every year since 1988.
 
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