Now they're rationing LP keep those stoves going!
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Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Hard to believe with all this fracking going on,a few months ago they were running out of storage space.
don't believe that BS that's there's a shortage .. maybe in distribution, but NO way in production. LP is a by product of natural gas processing. in case you haven't heard we are in the middle of the largest supply of natural gas in the world. with record low prices paid to well owners. but NOT to consumers.
look again .. prices for natural gas has been hoovering from $2 to $2.50 per mcf .. yet the average price paid by homeowners is about $10 per mcf. the bargain is CNG at about $5 per mcf ...
look again .. prices for natural gas has been hoovering from $2 to $2.50 per mcf .. yet the average price paid by homeowners is about $10 per mcf. the bargain is CNG at about $5 per mcf ...
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
But NG cant be compressed like LP...from what I gather. That's why it's plumbed from the gas company versus storage tanks at your house.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
For LP we paid $2.21 per unit of measurement...3 weeks ago. Over summer it was down to $1.83. Around us, NG is amazingly cheaper as well.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
Gallon. We only filled half. The LP "guy" was like "man it's a bad time to be buying propane" which if I remember correctly it's cheaper this year than last. For us at least. 250 gallons will last us more than all winter.
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
Over the summer it was even cheaper @ $1.7X a gallon if you signed a usage contract with them for 6 months. BUT, we were required to X gallons or pay a penalty.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
$2.21 Sounds cheap but only has 91000 BTUs per gallon compared to oil with 137000. So not much diff.
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
My parents burn oil...and I think that's hovering around $5 a gallon. The LP cost isn't so terrible for me. I've got a new(er) home. New windows. New chink. And of course, a mediocre wood stove. So I only run the furnace half @$$ when's it's SUPER cold. Mostly to keep basement warmer and pipes from freezing. The floor plan is all open. If it wasn't I'd probably never run the furnace and just stay dormant in half the house.
LP is only the by-product from Nat. and about half comes from the by-product of petroleum. My point is they are using LP to produce Nat. Sort of like using gas to produce gas eh?
That would be LNG or compressed Natural Gas used in vehicles. There is more nitrogen in Nat so it's better than LP for fuel cell use.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Nah, it can be compressed, it's called CNG. The equipment is expensive though.
Actually, NG is compressed to be transported through distribution lines. Speaking of, during the "polar vortex" a couple weeks back, here locally they had more demand than the distribution mains could keep up with, so the gas co was cutting off major users (factories, etc.)
I have a friend who lives on 5 wooded acres. He has (had) an all electric house. The $800 mo. bills in the winter were killing them, so they recently had gas put in. He had me come over to cut down some trees so they could run the gas lines....SCORE! I love gas
EDIT: Dang! Coaly beat me to it, darn hunt n peck typing method!
Kool_hand_Looke
Feeling the Heat
Not being difficult...but if LP is a byproduct of catalysis in both NG and petroleum, isn't it just that? A byproduct? Much like steam is a a byproduct of wood burning catalysts?
The compressed NG is LNG. Liquified Natural Gas. Lots of it is being exported and billions are about to be invested in Alaska to export the LNG made from the gas from the North Slope. Huge quantities already ship from the Gulf Coast.
Location and distribution has always been the thing with LP. No big LP pipelines around and any particular source isn't dependable or constant.
Location and distribution has always been the thing with LP. No big LP pipelines around and any particular source isn't dependable or constant.
bsruther
Minister of Fire
Wife said she saw a post on facebook today about an LP and fuel oil shortage crisis in Ohio. I told her to reply saying to let us know when there was a firewood crisis...and laughed.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Were fortunate the majority is not as ambitious as we are,or there would be a shortage.
Where I lived in Eagan, MN Northern States Power had a nat gas compression station and did have storage tanks. Half of the huge tanks were underground and half above. They had frost on them year around even being super insulated. They had liquified natural gas in storage for the long winters there. I was told a pipeline came directly to them from OK. I lived just across the street from the tanks and was also told that if they were to have a explosion we would at least go very quickly!
During this last cold spell the St. Louis natural gas system was pushed almost to its absolute maximum theoretical limit. As the temperature dropped to 10 below zero they had a difficult time keeping up with demand and keeping the system pressurized. The gas company injected a gargantuan amount of propane into the system to increase the amount btu per cubic foot in the system. This propane was available due to prearranged contract and I can't help but think that would affect the local propane market at least short term.
From Propane Wikipedia
Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing andpetroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.[citation needed] The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.
Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing andpetroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced.[citation needed] The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.
Propane, butane and pentane are the highest heat value by-products of refining crude oil. If it wasn't for the high sale value of propane it would all get used as fuel gas to run the refinery. Those big stills use a lot of energy. And the cheapest source is what is cooked out of the crude. And if they are coming up short the propane gets burned.
I always assumed propane was solely from refining.
I was reading the farm co-op news letter and they are in a panic, buying reserves from local businesses to meet the residential demands.
Supposedly a transport pipeline is getting closed down and supplies are low. They said going forward that propane supply is going to be sketchy.
Good thing I am still on the summer fill, might have to see if I can sell back the contracted propane I purchased.
I was reading the farm co-op news letter and they are in a panic, buying reserves from local businesses to meet the residential demands.
Supposedly a transport pipeline is getting closed down and supplies are low. They said going forward that propane supply is going to be sketchy.
Good thing I am still on the summer fill, might have to see if I can sell back the contracted propane I purchased.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Crap . . . I have a propane delivery coming today for the hot water heater/oven. Oh well . . . at least I'm not using it for heating the house like my neighbor.
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