Now they're rationing LP keep those stoves going!

MarkW said:

This could get ugly. The company I work for uses construction heaters that consume 15 gallons per hour. A shortage would not be good.

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I would dare bet that you are going to be SOL in short order from what the contact near Columbus told me.
Going to be interesting to see how this turns out.

Word from an industry contact is that all the big LP producers in the southern USA oil ports are shipping to Europe because they get $3-4/ gallon for export vs $1.50 here in the states. Regional propane distributors buy XX number of gallon for the heating season and they just didn't buy enough this year.
I get a feeling that the US is finally going to come up to par with the rest of the world's energy prices.

I get a feeling propane user will be CSS more wood this coming summer.

Im really glad i went with a garn this year. I almost put in a high efficiency propane furnace to replace my fuel oil furnace. My friend just paid $3.57 a gallon for propane the other day. At that price the money i put into the boiler system will pay off fast.

Lp just went up to 4.60 gal. yesterday up here we bought a little to top tank off 2 wks. ago for 2.29 glad we did can only get 100 gals.

hermancm said:

15 amps at 120 has a 1800 watt capacity and I've run a heater on high no problems yet. But I Googled it and they say that 1500 should be the limit on a 15 circuit. And don't use a extension cord.

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http://ecmweb.com/basics/sizing-circuit-breaker

All you ever wanted to know about circuit breaker sizing

Ray

I ordered some yesterday for next Friday del There was nothing mentioned about a shortage. I cant wait to see the price.

Seasoned Oak said:

So whats his backup/alternate heat? Dont have one? IF homeowners need a backup plan then certainly a business with a lot more to lose needs one as well. Poor planning,or no planning.

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No planning? It maybe poor planning not having larger tanks, but I don't think people can plan for no fuel. So if a major NG pipeline goes down and people don't have gas is that no planning because they all don't have a stove? How about the grid going down for a couple weeks?

Called the place we fill out 100lb tanks last night-$50 for a fill (if we bring the tank to them).

begreen said:

Here is an interesting statement from the EIA:

Because global prices for propane are significantly higher than U.S. prices, propane supplies will continue to move to Mont Belvieu for export. Midwest propane prices will rise to keep marginal supplies in the region when they are needed.

http://www.eia.gov/oog/info/twip/twiparch/2014/140115/twipprint.html

In other words, suck it up Midwest, we can get more for propane overseas. Sound familiar? It should. The primary intent of the proposed Keystone pipeline is to get tar sands oil to Tx for refining and shipping, overseas.

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seems the theme, the government could fix this quite easily, just slap an export tax on the fuel being shipped abroad equivalent to the differential price for instance. apparently US fuel is cheaper than foreign sources so its bought from here. if this is tempered a bit more fuel would stay at home.

granted its probably more complex that that , but it strikes me that at least the fuel being procured from government land sources could be taxed thus by the landowners (us) also, why is our fuel so much cheaper? why are we not charging a similar price? seems kinda short sighted to me.

harttj said:

No planning? It maybe poor planning not having larger tanks, but I don't think people can plan for no fuel. So if a major NG pipeline goes down and people don't have gas is that no planning because they all don't have a stove? How about the grid going down for a couple weeks?

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Everyone should have some kind of backup plan. Whether its electric,kerosene,wood whatever. Thats a big reason i have a wood stove,if the electric goes out.I still wont freeze. If you need 5-8 fuel deliveries a winter,its a good bet your tank is too small. Is it practical for a utility to have enough storage capacity for all its customers for the whole winter or does some of that responsibility also lie with the homeowner or business to have enough storage to NOT need 5-8 deliveries a winter.IMO Chit happens and when it does either you will have planned ahead or you will be cold.

stoveguy2esw said:

seems the theme, the government could fix this quite easily, just slap an export tax on the fuel being shipped abroad equivalent to the differential price for instance. apparently US fuel is cheaper than foreign sources so its bought from here. if this is tempered a bit more fuel would stay at home.

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Probably for the same reason we charge 3% import duties to countries(like china) that charge us 25% on our goods exported to their country. WHile at the same time we to cry about the trade imbalance killing jobs here. The insanity continues.

Seasoned Oak said:

Probably for the same reason we charge 3% import duties to countries(like china) that charge us 25% on our goods exported to their country. WHile at the same time we to cry about the trade imbalance killing jobs here. The insanity continues.

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so much for "free trade" right? we get hosed with every one of these supposedly free trade agreements.

Seasoned Oak said:

Probably for the same reason we charge 3% import duties to countries(like china) that charge us 25% on our goods exported to their country. WHile at the same time we to cry about the trade imbalance killing jobs here. The insanity continues.

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the common consumer does care about the job or where it comes from, just what the pot, pan, t-shirt, pant, shorts, underwear, shoe, car parts, garlic, hat, wine, beef, lamb, soft wear, collection service, appliances, sheets, blankets, furniture, lumber, cabinettes, carpet, ect, ect, ect, just what it costs!

Doug MacIVER said:

the common consumer does care about the job or where it comes from, just what the pot, pan, t-shirt, pant, shorts, underwear, shoe, car parts, garlic, hat, wine, beef, lamb, soft wear, collection service, appliances, sheets, blankets, furniture, lumber, cabinettes, carpet, ect, ect, ect, just what it costs!

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THey should care,it may be their job thats eliminated next.

Seasoned Oak said:

THey should care,it may be their job thats eliminated next.

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believe me I know. how many people were employeed by Kinney in your state just one lifetime ago. a minor industry I might add. one of my better customers from 1949- 1990. sorry this is off the topic but related to the export idea, it comes back as parts we could still make if footing was equal.

I have made good money in the past pre buying fuel in the summer for use in the winter. I used to make 100% or more on heating oil bought in the summer. I had a full winters supply by fall. Remember plenty of times paying less than $1 a gallon in summer and by mid winter the price was almost $2 or more.

Seems like our trade negotiators have been working for the competition for the last 30-40 years now.

I placed two orders yesterday for houses I watch at $6.099/gallon. Dealers are not taking any new customers. They are sending Semi tankers to Kansas City. One is planning on trips to Utah. Most of the cost is freight. Sure do like my Garn!

Seasoned Oak said:

Seems like our trade negotiators have been working for the competition for the last 30-40 years now.

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I forgot golfballs, golfclubs, baseball gloves, tennis raquets,, hey the nfl still gets their footballs here,

$6.00 a gallon !?!?

Yup, Wednesday it was $4.899. It will be interesting to see what next week brings. Wausau TV showed some of the businesses on the snowmobile trails are buying electric heater and electric grills for fear of not getting propane.

Wow, no compassion for those who might not be able to afford a back up plan, especially when none of this was forecast. Either way I thought there was a lot more sensitivity to those in need here on this site. I sure do see many that are very outgoing here, to help others in need.

This here can easily ruin a families whole financial year, and makes me wonder what else contributed to this LP problem. This is hitting the little guy where they have no way of helping themselves, if there isn't any supply.

Vizsla said:

Wow, no compassion for those who might not be able to afford a back up plan, especially when none of this was forecast. Either way I thought there was a lot more sensitivity to those in need here on this site. I sure do see many that are very outgoing here, to help others in need.

This here can easily ruin a families whole financial year, and makes me wonder what else contributed to this LP problem. This is hitting the little guy where they have no way of helping themselves, if there isn't any supply.

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This is a very deep and touchy subject, especially since what is in the root of it, is how energy is derived, processed and exploited in our country and under what disguised premises.
Qui bono and on what moral basis, ethos and profit are not a mix...
But if we go there this will be locked down.

Scott