Direct connect combustion air - Wood Gun E100

So I am trying to wrap my head around what back-puffing is and the cause - hoping with all the experienced WG'ers & Red-Greens out there that there could be a solution.
If I am hearing correctly it sounds like this only happens after the fire has been starved of air particularly when the damper door opens (automatic or manual) after only a short "off/starve" period.
I am not a firefighter, but did a bit of reading (only enough to make me dangerous). This is something they have to consider whenever entering an enclosed space where there is fire. They have a triangle (fuel, air, heat/ignition source). In flashover and backdraft the fuel is the heated gases which are starved for air and therefore cannot ignite - which sort of sounds like what is going on in the WG.
The generalized firefighter solution to this is to cool and modify the chemical makeup of the gases with a quick shot of water (think steam) before allowing air in.
Soooooooooooooo, what if (borrowing from Mike's thermometer through the door trick) there was a small nozzle mounted through the front top door so a small solenoid could inject a very small quantity of water as a spray. Something like, call for heat - draft inducer starts, 2 second delay on water solenoid, 7 second delay on damper door.
Go easy, don't start throwing kindling, remember I have not fired mine yet, just thinking out loud.

"Go for it and let us know." no offense, but was kind of hoping for a little more feedback than that.

I only have 1 timer, the one you turn to 5 and wait for the green light - so you do not use that? (just open door
real slowly?)
I gather setting the differential (aquastat is set to 160, operating limit 190 - this is what you mean?) to 30 is extending the time the draft inducer is off/draft door is closed so that the gases have more time to cool and settle.
Does this give you a bit more creosote build up than the AHS recommended 20* differential?
I gather both you and Mike have your operating limit set higher than the AHS recommendation of 180 for SS. I have always wondered why the SS setting is lower than the carbon steel setting of 190? So what is the consequence to the boiler of having this setting higher tha 180?

Ok, so the cycle timer had me really confused - took AC's advice - spoke with Darren - clear as mud now.
My unit does not have a cycle timer. I am thinking (hoping) this will not be an issue as I have many heat loads, and a second building, so the WG will probably cycle fairly regularly anyway.

Also my settings need adjusting to be more in-line with you other WG'ers.
My Low Temp Cut Off is set at 160 - will be setting that at 140.
My operating limit is set at 180, will bump that up to 190 & high limit from 200 to 205.
My differential is 15* , will be setting that to 30*

All this is making a whole lot more sense now.
I burn 85% hickory which is among the more dense woods (according to the firewood chart). My pieces are
22 1/2" long and about 9" - 12" splits, any rounds smaller than 10" do not get split. I mentioned my m/c being around 16 - 20% - Darren thought I might be ok given the type of wood and size of pieces - it would be a real pain to have to mix in wet stuff as all my cut wood is seasoned 2 years, outside rack is full, basement is full, bush has 3 feet of snow and I have no where to store it. Will start off with what I have and see how it goes.

I also asked about the recommendation for carbon WG's operating at 190* but SS @180* - the carbon units are set higher to burn off/minimize creosote build-up which is more toxic to carbon than to SS.

I am going to put a delay on the damper right away - before firing.

The water spray idea is going to remain "in the (smoke) cloud" for now until I can see if there is even a need for it. If it ain't broke.......... from what I am hearing here, with the correct settings, it may not need fixing.
So, once again - sincerely - thank you Mike and AC for sharing your knowledge and experience, very helpful for a newbie.

Hello - I'm back.
You said to let you know - I'm a lettin you know.
Finallllllllllllly running my E100 after 3 years of building the beast.
Have a sunroom infloor (concrete) zone, 2 baseboard zones, 1 fan coil
zone which heats most of the house, DHW zone, filter zone, chiller zone,
and the main loop which is its own zone - all functioning.
Once it is up to temperature, the E100 is having no problem heating all zones with
staggered startups.

Now working on a zone to heat an 800 sq/ft out building.

So now I have some new questions to ask of the experienced wood burners out there.

My E100 is taking 30 to 45 minutes to reach 180 F from cold (70 F) with no load - is that about right??

My operating limit is set to 190F differential at 30. I can switch from START to RUN at 157 F.
When my unit shuts down, the factory temp gauge mounted in the boiler only reads 180F.
If I lower the operating limit to 180, these start/stop numbers do not change??????
(high limit is 210, low temp 140) Am I missing something?

Door gaskets - I am thinking these should not burn - mine got scorched on the first burn
and they are getting worse, have some leaking. Has anyone replaced their door gaskets?
What material did you use? I am only finding high temp silicone rated for 500F.
See pics of fried door gasket - these are from one burn.

Also attaching pic of my fresh air rig. Air comes in through the back pipe that goes into the
white steel pail, then is picked up by the boiler intake pipe. I have a fire damper on the intake
in case the motorized damper ever failed and fire went down the intake.
The 6 inch PVC (grey and clear) tube in the fore ground is my glycol make-up, the
double 4 inch PVC (white and clear) tubes beside the boiler is connected to the boiler relief
valve.

Hi AC & Mike,
Good to be back in touch with you.
My installation has taken me a long time to get going, partly because of conflicting or just bad advice which I acted on, then had to re-do properly. I was starting with no knowledge of boilers and learning from contractors I would hire who had varying degrees of knowledge and skill.

I will start at the top of AC's post.
Yes, it is only the lower doors which are scorched, and on the first burn where I only had a smaller fire.
Last night I adjusted the doors, I think it is just crushing the gaskets more because the whole house is stinking like smoke/creosote - cannot use it like this any longer - it is much worse now after a week of burning. I have a 100' roll of 3/4" rope gasket, tomorrow I will replace the lower door gaskets. I am thinking I would have to use 2 layers held with high temp silicone to take up the same thickness. I have not taken it apart, but my owner manual shows a layer of rope, then the silicone gasket. My loading door gasket is like new, I will leave that one, but I have no choice but to replace the high temp doors.

I am not sure if the factory gauge is wrong or the op-limit. I have my main loop circ coming on at 130F so fluid is moving. Other gauges in different areas of the system (supply side) are more agreeing with the factory gauge than the op-limit - once I have the gaskets fixed I will do some temp checks - one of these should probably be replaced.
I have the return fluid split and going into both lower ports because I thought it would distribute the return water better, mix it up more......... I didn't know if those ports were both to be used or just an option for left/right connection so, not having a definate answer, I figured I wouldn't go wrong if I plumbed both.

My settings right now are similar to both of yours. I was thinking a greater differential would be better but my op-limit will only allow 30F. Most of my zones will work quite well with 130F. Now that I see how the WG works, I will probably add some mixing valves and some strap-on aquastats to cut power to zones which require the high temps - so basically certain zones would only run when high temps (say 165F or more) are available so all the loads don't make demands on startup, and the lower temp zones can run longer (from say, 160F) down to 130F when the wood is burnt.
Thank you both for you settings - it helps to know what you are doing so I know what I can try safely.

I added the fire damper as an extra fail safe in case, say, a piece of wood (insert 1 in a million failure here) prevented the damper from closing or if the spring broke (can that happen ??? I don't know 1:1,000,000). It cost $35, it makes my wife feel better, so that makes it worthwhile.

I am using glycol on the strong recommendation from one of the contractors who worked with me. I have a 8 inch pre-fab insulated big-"O" type pipe with 2 - 1 inch pex lines running 160 feet to my garage. The original plan was to have a closed glycol loop in the garage running to the house (basement). The house system was to be water, then have a plate exchanger to heat the garage loop. If I use glycol, I can have the garage running as just another zone off my main loop, no extra equipment required. Also he told me glycol has better heat transfer properties, which I now know is incorrect. Also the glycol cost me $700 which probably would have bought all the equipment for the closed loop.

I will attach a pic of my boiler room board where I have my DHW plate exchanger (see if you can spot it). Just for piping and pumping, space and logistics, I ended up not using the DHW coil in the boiler. I reserve the right to use that as an ordinary zone down the road, should the need arise.

My whole system is copper, brass, bronze or stainless except most circs and mounting flanges. Took the advice of contractors?? Main loop - 1 1/2" - 100 running feet, garage zone 1", all other zones 3/4" - 320 running feet (so far), chiller - 230 running feet of stainless 1/2" flex tube.

My boiler will probably run out of fuel daily and cool to something like 110F - are you telling me that is not good?

My left upper port on the boiler is just used as a vent when filling. I put a valve on so that I could add something down the road without draining.
So Mike - am I understanding right - you let the factory low limit shutdown the draft motor and damper at 140F and your left (back) op-limit is to shut down your zones? I think I am doing the basically the same thing except I am using a bulb with a capillary tube strapped onto the supply pipe immediately above the boiler - mine is probably slower to react.

I see from your pics the ash that drops from the rear clean out door - that is bothering me on mine as it is in the basement close to clean stuff and I am trying to keep it reasonable clean. I am making a tray to mount under that door so when opened the ash doesn't fall all over the motor/pipes/floor - will mount to the two studs holding that thick steel plate the motor is mounted to - will send pics when I have it done.

Mike what is connected to the "T" just below your pressure release?

Should I understand that both of you are using water (not antifreeze) ? AC - that is a pretty big boiler for a house - is that the only thing you are heating with your E180? How about some pics of your install - I am ALWAYS looking for ideas to borrow and better ways to do things.
My pics below - main board just behind boiler (another reason I'm becoming anal about ash), added a sceond expansion tank, my homemade chiller/ac unit - visible in expansion tank pic (may have posted this before)

Do either of you have flow switches? Contractor installed one on mine, another told me it was not needed, I removed it.

Ok - end of my part-novel - after 4:30 (EST) I will not have internet access again until Jan 5 so I am getting all my wordage in now. If we don't chat before then I am wishing you both a great Christmas.
Scott.

In the sunroom I have 220 feet of pex in a 2 1/2" overpour and 35 feet of baseboard for when it really gets cold. I have baseboard in the basement on one wall and would like to add more. I am using a plate exchanger for DHW. I have an existing regular forced air natural gas furnace fully functional. There is a 32X28 4 row coil in the duct which I use for heating and cooling using the boiler system and my chiller. I replaced the 6 speed motor in the gas furnace with a GE ECM motor. Using relays it has one control which operates the fan motor at the proper fixed (high)speed for the gas heating, this gets precedence. If the boiler is running, and not the gas, there is a variable speed control in the hall on the main floor which allows me to run the fan continuously and sloooowwww so there is constant low heat - very comfortable - all inspected and approved. The idea was that we can vary the fan speed because heating is different based on the temp outside. A thermostat shuts off the coil pump and furnace fan when set temp is reached, but usually we set the fan very low so the heat stays just below the shut off point. This is very easy to use and works extremely well - there are no temperature swings like we have with the gas furnace,
(gas startup - cold blast of air, then it warms up, then its too warm - it shuts down, then it gets cool and the cycle starts again - every half hour or so)
Next project is to add a fan coil to warm an 800 sq. ft. garage (24,000 BTU).
Also I have a Rehau manifold and Grundfos 6 zone control - I want to heat some specific small jobs with one pump - towel warmers, wrap the bath tubs with pex and insulate so they are noticibly warm when you step in to take a shower, pex under the wood subfloor by the back door so water from boots on the (carpet)mat dries quickly
- that kind of stuff.

Not sure what return water protection is - do you have it - can you explain - do I need it?

I would like WG to cycle from 150 to 190 - it should not have a problem restarting with a slightly longer cycle during the main heating season - maybe in spring & fall in might be a problem but I could easily dial it back for that time.

The glycol make up is so I can purge air manually from the top of the system and recover the glycol that purges with it. Also (remember I am still building and modifying) it allows me to drain and open zones and not lose more than a few drops of fluid. System is pressurized to 10 psi - there are 2 expansion tanks. I originally had the green one (see pic above) which is 17 gallon - pressure was going to 15 psi when temp went to 120F - so I added a 6 gallon, pressure now goes to 15 psi @ 190F. Also, when one eventually fails I have a backup.
Boiler is running cold because I let the fire go out when I am not home. It is new, I don't trust it yet - for good reason - look at my gaskets - that could easily be a fire.
I am somewhat p*ssed that I have put not more than 7 loads of wood in my WG, none of which had more than 4 - 6 inch pieces and I have to replace the gaskets - that is just wrong, no? I e-mailed Alternate Heating - 2 people - no reply - so not really happy about that.
I am finding that my E100 will heat us out of the house in a short time (1 hour)running the coil at its lowest settings. I am having a hard time imagining you using a boiler with twice the capacity of mine for just a house. Is it an older, leaky house or a log house - how can you use that much heat? I see from your pics you have PLENTY of wood and some real nice equipment for handling!
Talk to you again (I hope) Jan 5.

Attaching pics of my lower door gaskets - replaced them with 2 layers of 5/8" rope - good now.
Air purging - over the holiday I replaced the filter cartridge in my filter zone. That required valving off the filter housing, draining (about a half gallon), then re-flooding. I have a manual air purge on that zone for the initial re-flooding but some air always gets into the main loop once the zone comes back online. The main air purge/scrubber is just downstream of the boiler, the filter zone (all zones actually) is downstream of that. So when filter zone comes back online, some air gets into the main loop and circulates into other zones (in small amounts). All zones have a "Maid-o-mist" but even with all these it will be a few days before there is no bubbles whatsoever. The drained glycol goes into the makeup unit, which is manually pressurized, for re-use as required. Since I drained a half gallon while the fluid temp was 130F @ 13 psi, that fluid came from the expansion tanks. Whenever the system falls below 130F again, the psi will drop causing the makeup unit to push fluid into the main loop at 10psi. I pressurized my system to 10 psi @ 70F. At 190F the pressure rises to 15.5 psi. The makeup has a regulator which only adds fluid if the pressure drops below 10 psi.

Added pics of my front drain valve & protector - ball valve handle removed & hand fastened when needed.

Also attached a pic of my rear door tray - that works nicely. After reading your post muncybob I am going to make use of that logic. I have been cleaning those regularly. Makes sense that the ashes will protect the gaskets - I am thinking I will very carefully open the front door once in a while, clean the tubes, shine a light to the back. If the ends are not blocked I will leave the ash, in the front also, give the frame a wipe and close it up again.

AC - I gather your system has one pump running pretty much steady and zone valves on thermostats deciding which zones require heat?

Muncybob - yes I learned (the hard way) that you MUST seal the exhaust pipes. Due to clearance issues I was only able to have my vertical pipe off the cyclone as single wall, the rest (horizontal) to the chimney is one inch insulated. Since the insulated pipe fits together so well and has a locking ring, I figured I didn't need to silicone the joints - WRONG!!
They are sealed real good now.

Here is a thought I would like some comment on. I am thinking to wrap my WG cyclone and vertical single wall pipe with copper tube. I would connect the tube to my filter zone so it would cycle fluid from the main loop, through the filter, through the copper coil around the cyclone, then back to the main loop. I would add a bulb type aquastat to the outside of the tube on the cyclone and set it to run only if the temp was above 170F ??. I have a cheap stove pipe magnetic thermometer which tells my my cyclone gets up to 340F. I know I need some heat to go up the chimney to keep it warm but it seems like alot of heat going to waste. I am thinking this could trigger my filter zone to run for maybe 15 minutes every time the WG cycles, and it would be helping to heat the main loop. I am thinking to set the aquastat fairly high so as not to rob all the heat from the cyclone. Anyone see a problem with this?

Thanks for the info about the cyclone temps - I have a digital bulb type thermometer - not sure if it can take that much heat, but I will carefully try it and see if I am getting the same temps as you - should be, as it is the same WG, but maybe different wood? I am just figuring that if I recover some of that heat, I will use a little less wood. It will not be a major expense as I am just extending an existing zone - we'll see. Will post pics when I do. I was hoping others may have pondered doing this and would have some insight to add.

I don't understand AH's use of silicone on the lower doors. Those temps are likely more than 1000F. I cannot find any silicone with a rating that high (1700 - 2000F). Also don't understand why my seals failed so badly, so quickly, yet others are still using theirs.

At the time I was running with my damper wide open and it was working fine - maybe it was making a hotter fire because there was more air through-put??? Only thing I can think of - but still the WG is designed to handle that - no? I am only burning regular hardwood 15 - 20% MC which I also read in a thread is about your preference.

Since then I have had huffing/puffing. I have read a post you made on another thread where you said you run your WG with the damper 3/4 closed to avoid puffing and to maybe save wood. Sounds good to me so I tried that. No more puffing but I have no way to know if it is saving wood but your theory makes sense to me.

Also discovered my seals around the fan motor are leaking causing that foul creosote/smoke smell in the house.
Initially I just smeared high temp silicone around the seal closest to the back wall, that cut the stink in half.
On the weekend I am going to remove the motor and probably replace the rope seal and get it sealed up proper.

Sounds like a lot of negative but it is heating the house and DHW very nicely. I am only burning 5 or 6 pieces of wood per day which is about the same as my old forced air wood/oil combo except the Wg is aditionally heating the basement to a comfortable temp, heating a sunroom with lots of windows, and the dhw.