My heating strategy

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N_Blueth

Member
Jan 19, 2014
33
Virginia
Looking for some feedback on my heating strategy for next winter. The goal is to have the heat pump run less to save money while also improving the heat in the house. I live in Virginia.

House was built in 2002 and is tight, for the most part. 3500 square feet including basement. Open floor plan with vaulted ceilings on the main level. You can see the second story from the living room. Lots of open space.

Here's my plan:
Living room will get an updated propane insert direct vent rated at about 40,000 BTUs. Current propane costs are about 3.50/gallon. Cost of unit and install around $5500
Basement will get the biggest wood stove I can find, somewhere in the 80,000 BTU range.
Adding ceiling fans where appropriate.
Upgrade thermostat.
New heavy (but nice) blinds for the living room windows, which are large.

How's that sound?
 
If your replacing the propane insert have you considered a pellet insert? You could actually run it without cringing at the cost to operate. Your heat pump when its running as a heat pump and not just electric ( Im assuming its air source ) strips is probably cheaper then the propane insert.
 
If your replacing the propane insert have you considered a pellet insert? You could actually run it without cringing at the cost to operate. Your heat pump when its running as a heat pump and not just electric ( Im assuming its air source ) strips is probably cheaper then the propane insert.

I hadn't thought about a pellet insert. Does it provide a nice ambiance?
 
I'm looking at some models now. BTUs are better than propane, and the costs for fuel is way better. Maintenance is not as nice as propane but I'm not lazy. Are there are glaring downsides to pellet inserts?
 
Simply that there are some mechanical parts that can blink and the cost of pellets could eventually go up. The chimney is cheaper, the box is more expensive (when comparing to wood stoves). If you have a pellet supplier nearby I think I would give it a chance. Nice constant heat too...
Andrew
 
Simply that there are some mechanical parts that can blink and the cost of pellets could eventually go up. The chimney is cheaper, the box is more expensive (when comparing to wood stoves). If you have a pellet supplier nearby I think I would give it a chance. Nice constant heat too...
Andrew
Huh?

So a ton of pellets goes for about 200 - 250, depending on the type. Is there ever a shortage? And the average burn rate by members on this site seem to be about 1 -2 bags a day. Two bags a day seems a bit much. At that rate it would be about a hundred dollars cheaper than propane, as a guesstimate.
 
I would not necessarily say that a pellet unit installed would be less than a gas unit installed. in my experience they are pretty similar. cost of fuel at this point is cheaper with pellets but they are going up. I doubt they will hit propane prices though. and pellet units take quite a bit of maintenance
 
we heat our shop with pellets 24 by 32 tight building insulated well 10 ft ceilings on a bag a day. and there is a shortage in our area right now
 
I would not necessarily say that a pellet unit installed would be less than a gas unit installed. in my experience they are pretty similar. cost of fuel at this point is cheaper with pellets but they are going up. I doubt they will hit propane prices though. and pellet units take quite a bit of maintenance

It seems the amount of heat coming from pellets is better than propane. The propane unit I was looking at was about 37,500 BTU while the Regency GCI60 pellet insert was 55,000 BTU.
 
How about a new and improved heat pump? I think propane and oil prices are getting close to straight electric resistance heat. How bout putting energy costs and efficiencies in this spreadsheet?
www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

I had a tech come by and try to sell me a new heat pump yesterday. Of course he tried to sell me top of the line equipment and hated the idea of wood or propane. Ironically, my fireplace guy thinks his stuff is the best too. Regardless, a new heat pump would run me around 14k. What I have now is builder grade so a new furnace is on the list but will have to come later.
 
Looking for some feedback on my heating strategy for next winter. The goal is to have the heat pump run less to save money while also improving the heat in the house. I live in Virginia.

House was built in 2002 and is tight, for the most part. 3500 square feet including basement. Open floor plan with vaulted ceilings on the main level. You can see the second story from the living room. Lots of open space.

Vaulted ceilings are hard to heat. Heat still rises. You are heating a volume of space in which there is no living area. Effectively, you are heating the equivalent of a much larger floor area than you report.

Living room will get an updated propane insert direct vent rated at about 40,000 BTUs. Current propane costs are about 3.50/gallon. Cost of unit and install around $5500

One has to factor the efficiency of the unit, propane prices, and the cost of electricity, but a rough estimate is that simple electric resistance heating is cheaper than propane at prices around $3.00 per gal. Down to around 10 deg. f modern high efficiency heat pumps will be about a third less cost than electric resistance heating. At $3.50 per gal. of propane you are going into the hole big time. Even heating oil is cheaper.

Basement will get the biggest wood stove I can find, somewhere in the 80,000 BTU range.
Have you thought about a wood fired furnace? They can tie into your existing duct work, and will require less attention than a stove. A stove is a source point heater and it can be easy, difficult, or even impossible to get the heat out of the basement and upstairs. There must be dozens of threads on this in these forums.

Adding ceiling fans where appropriate.

Probably necessary. The only alternative is to use a ducted air system and get enough return air pickup points high on the vaulted ceilings.

Upgrade thermostat.

Set back thermostats, heat pumps, and extreme cold are not necessarily compatible. Heat pumps can be remarkably efficient, but if the thermostat calls for a lot of heat or the outside temps are low enough it will turn on the heat strip - basic expensive electric resistance heating. What is worse, when heat is called for around dawn, the outside temperatures are at their lowest, and the heat pump is called on to raise the temperature however many degrees you have set it back. It can be actually less expensive to just let the heat pump run all night as needed in some cases.

New heavy (but nice) blinds for the living room windows, which are large.

Heavy blinds in and of themselves may have a R value of 0. You need either insulated blinds, cellular shades, insulated curtains, or some combination. This may be the most effective place to help your heating costs. The best double glazed windows have an R value of around 2. The better cellular shades give your an additional R 3, cutting your heat loss through the glass to less than half! Insulated shades are available as high as R 5, but they get pretty spendy. But imagine going from a mere R 2 to R 7 - cutting your heat loss by almost 70 %. Be aware also that insulated curtains have to be installed properly or you simply create a chimney behind which air circulates.

I am a big believer in reducing heat losses through windows and doors. Not only does it save on energy consumption, but it makes your living space so much more comfortable by reducing drafts and cold spots near windows. One does have to be aware of the potential of condensation problems on the windows which is both unsightly and damaging, but again, proper installation can minimize the issue.

So, in sum, I would spend my first dollars on insulation, including effective window treatments. Next I would upgrade the heat pump - possibly even go ground source. There is no set of circumstances that would get me to install a propane insert, but if you want one just figure on getting it for ambiance.
 
The biggest wood stove I know of is the hearthstone equinox and it runs in this area $4099+ not to mention the cost of the 8 in pipe. You could probably get an add-on wood furnace and heat pretty much all your house for that price were as the equinox might only be able to heat half the house from the basement
 
Huh?

So a ton of pellets goes for about 200 - 250, depending on the type. Is there ever a shortage? And the average burn rate by members on this site seem to be about 1 -2 bags a day. Two bags a day seems a bit much. At that rate it would be about a hundred dollars cheaper than propane, as a guesstimate.

I simply meant you can't do in your back yard and cut pellets. So they come from a manufacturer. Therefore you are at the mercy of pellet companies. If there is a shortage (plants burning down, etc) prices could go up. BUt if the trees in your backyard start running low, you've cut too many ;)
 
Have you thought about a wood fired furnace? They can tie into your existing duct work, and will require less attention than a stove. A stove is a source point heater and it can be easy, difficult, or even impossible to get the heat out of the basement and upstairs. There must be dozens of threads on this in these forums.

+1
 
The biggest wood stove I know of is the hearthstone equinox and it runs in this area $4099+ not to mention the cost of the 8 in pipe. You could probably get an add-on wood furnace and heat pretty much all your house for that price were as the equinox might only be able to heat half the house from the basement

+2!
 
I vote for an add on wood furnace in the basement and do nothing to your fireplace for a while. See how the add on furnace does and make your decision after that.
 
N Blueth: To get good advice here you need to provide specific information about your situation--otherwise you get general advice which may or may not be applicable to your situation.
So first tell us about your current situation: How many kwh are you currently using for heating at what cost? At what temperature does the system switch to electric resistance?
Current propane costs are not the number you use--they are higher than usual now and will go down. What was the contract rate last summer--although I expect it will be higher this coming summer it will not be as high as current prices. Likewise similar numbers for pellets, fuel oil, electricity, wood...
Your plans (as well as current situation) seem to be based on keeping your vaulted ceiling at 85 to 90 degrees so you can have a comfortable 72 degrees at floor level. The alternative is warm clothes and localized heat sources (space heater next to the chair you sit in to watch TV...).
 
N Blueth: To get good advice here you need to provide specific information about your situation--otherwise you get general advice which may or may not be applicable to your situation.
So first tell us about your current situation: How many kwh are you currently using for heating at what cost? At what temperature does the system switch to electric resistance?
Current propane costs are not the number you use--they are higher than usual now and will go down. What was the contract rate last summer--although I expect it will be higher this coming summer it will not be as high as current prices. Likewise similar numbers for pellets, fuel oil, electricity, wood...
Your plans (as well as current situation) seem to be based on keeping your vaulted ceiling at 85 to 90 degrees so you can have a comfortable 72 degrees at floor level. The alternative is warm clothes and localized heat sources (space heater next to the chair you sit in to watch TV...).

All I was looking for is general advice. For what it's worth, I average around 5000 kWh per month December - February. So my bill is pretty high. The resistors come on intermitently at around 32 and anytime we get to the teens and lower they are on almost exclusively.

I disagree that current propane costs don't matter. The goal is to lower the costs while maximizing heat value. Thus, when propane is at it's height in demand/costs is exactly when I care. When propane is cheap and at lower demand it doesn't effect me, so I don't care.

Pellets at the local big box go for about 200 - 250 a pallet.

My plan is not to keep the space above our heads at 90, rather to maximize my heat value and control costs. What's more, there's not much I can do with the vaulted space other then add a fan to recirculate the heat, which I've already done.

I agree with sweaters and wool socks but not localized heat sources. They are just going to jack my electric bill that much more and are fire hazards (we have kids).
 
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