SteelCat vs. Ceramic - My verdict

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That was dennis thinking they were just as easy as non-cats. He's the only one.
Close the bypass and cut the air too early on a cat, it won't take off, or stalls. Close the bypass and cut the air too late on a tube stove, and your stove will soon be glowing. They're all easy....to screw up.
 
Guilty.

And I had the same experience with Condar... When I contacted them about switching steel back to ceramic they offered to do it no questions asked, even cross shipped me a new one.

I have had all the problems you did except for the clogging. The first steel I struggled with I had stalls at startup, significant smoke when in the 800-1100F probe temp region, and occasional runaways to 1800+. It also warped badly.

Now I assumed the warping and smoke problems where just because it degraded over time due to my newbie abuse, and got a new one this year. Well only 3 months use on the new one (about 1 cord), and the problems persisted, but my wood and burning habits have improved significantly with experience vs the last one. I have also freshly rebuilt the stove so the refractory box, thermostats, gasket seals -everything is perfect. This time I started having the mid cycle stalls where it could be happily cruising at 1200F + probe temps for 2-3 hours and then just randomly drop to 800 and start belching like a smoke dragon for no rhyme or reason.

This is burning 2 and 3 year C/S/S and top covered wood that's mostly under 20%, some under 15%. All tested on a resplit. It doesn't hiss, lights very easy, easily reaches 500-600 stovetop temps, glass stays fairly clean.. it really is not the wood in my case.

Pop the ceramic in, and bam. No more billowing smoke when under 1100, and so far no mid cycle stalls. Its too early to tell but I feel like its holding temps longer as well.




This actually is a case where the VC and Jotul designs differ (Jotul possibly the better idea). In the VC, the smoke enters the rear chamber through an iron hood just below the bypass, then immediately enters the refractory box and makes a 180 degree u-turn to flow down through the catalyst. then at the bottom of the refractory exits and makes another 180 to go up the back of the stove and out.

The cat element is only a couple inches from that inlet hood, so if we are not careful it is quite possible to get flame impingement with the VC design. It might be part of the reason they can be prone to over-fire when not operated very carefully.

View attachment 125531
This Cat pictured looks like it will fit my progress Hybrid which 16 7/8 x 2 1/2 inches I imagine if I call round I could locate this stove difficult to heat my 1600 sq foot mfgd home in NC USA pretty mild temps my old Papa bear and Buck stoves were Effin much hotter as in run you outta house. at like 3K im not so happy thank god I did not pay for it 2 yr old seasoned hard saw mill stuff
 
so I gotta call Woodstock and see who makes my steel cat , one replaced in two months of operation big dent in frame could let exh right past the cat gasket .Replaced Imed by Woodstock If cat's damaged Can I run stove with out it lv bypass closed or open? Gut the Cat Or?
 
Well, Dennis' firewood is aged longer than a fine Highland Scotch ... for him any stove is easy ;lol

I have pesonally handled and split Dennis wood. It feels more like petrified wood. :)
 
Some of the wood Dennis is burning today was CSS'd before we were born.
 
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so I gotta call Woodstock and see who makes my steel cat , one replaced in two months of operation big dent in frame could let exh right past the cat gasket .Replaced Imed by Woodstock If cat's damaged Can I run stove with out it lv bypass closed or open? Gut the Cat Or?

I have a new cat from WS. It must be a DuraFoil, the cells are uniform and identical.
I've used it for a month now and like it much better than the original steel cat that came in the stove.
 
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I just popped the ceramic back in the Keystone. Here's the first-gen steel, with probably the equivalent of one season on it; Looks pristine.

002_zps8c5a8902.jpg
 
I have a new cat from WS. It must be a DuraFoil, the cells are uniform and identical.
I've used it for a month now and like it much better than the original steel cat that came in the stove.
Yes they are using DuraFoil as are we. Unfortunately we did get a small number of King models early on with diesel foil and we trade those out no questions asked.
 
I just popped the ceramic back in the Keystone. Here's the first-gen steel, with probably the equivalent of one season on it; Looks pristine.

002_zps8c5a8902.jpg

I do envy the ease of cat removal from the woodstocks. The keystone is harder than the fireview but still a snap with no gasket required unless you pull the cat from the frame.

Is that cat loose from shrinkage?
 
Yes they are using DuraFoil as are we. Unfortunately we did get a small number of King models early on with diesel foil and we trade those out no questions asked.

WS did the same, I explained the situation and no questions asked.
 
Awesome group at WS!
 
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The thing that concerns me about the steel is how they don't burn as hot as ceramics towards the end of the burn. If your burning low and slow with a large load that cat has to stay active for 12+ hours to burn that smoke in those logs towards the back or you could end up with a smoldering mess.

Do the steel cats hang on enough towards the end? Seems like I've heard some reports that they always don't.
 
The thing that concerns me about the steel is how they don't burn as hot as ceramics towards the end of the burn. If your burning low and slow with a large load that cat has to stay active for 12+ hours to burn that smoke in those logs towards the back or you could end up with a smoldering mess.

Do the steel cats hang on enough towards the end? Seems like I've heard some reports that they always don't.


Todd,

I understand what you are saying about losing the active cat towards the end of the burn, but I just never experienced any difference in the way the back logs burned compared with a ceramic cat. I suppose you could say they burn down with or without a cat anyway just from the firebox heat, but I think the lack of soot in the flue tells the story.

All I can say is no matter how hard I tried with the ceramic cat I always ended up with a cracked and crumbling substrate after about 2 years. My wood was 3+ years seasoned and I was careful to drive the moisture out of every load before engaging.

My complaint with the stainless is it needs intensive care more often (more frequent brushings and now I need to add a vinegar bath). Wow, now that I put it that way I feel like I am taking care of a kitten!

I had my first clog a couple days ago, it was completely plugged. I think the cat was becoming less active, and this caused it to plug. After the wash, it now acts as good as the day I put it in.
 
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I dont have a lot of comparison data, but I do think I see the high temps hold longer on the ceramic.... however I dont recall ever seeing significant smoke out of the stack at the trailing end of the burn with the steel cat even if the temps where low.

What I did see was that the steel cat would have a lot more smoke early in the cycle even with good hot temps, and would stall more often.
 
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my cat from my 3 month old PH was dented on top of Frame It allowed a bit of gasses to pass by the Cat WS sent another about a week ago Looks same Durafoil I believe,,Im still getting used to radiant stove , most folks round here have those cheesy wood outdoor boilers .I didnt want the smoky mess .. I mite shoulda looked into gassifiers . really not into say 5 yrs of wood on site .. etc im adding a 10K PV solar I may add 4 solar water panels and a 500 plus gallons in ground run thru air handler coil not sure yet ..
 
Fire_man, I'm glad to hear the vinegar bath worked for you too.
I have had earlier light offs and less stalls after the bath. I figure, if I get 5 years out of a 100$ cat, that's 20 bucks a year to have a nice clean chimney. Seems worth it to me.
 
I'll trade you my Progress for the car in your Avatar!
632 cu inch Merlin. Currie 9+ rear end. 911 HP to crank.....you'll have through in a bottle of Don Julio.....
 
The thing that concerns me about the steel is how they don't burn as hot as ceramics towards the end of the burn. If your burning low and slow with a large load that cat has to stay active for 12+ hours to burn that smoke in those logs towards the back or you could end up with a smoldering mess.
Do the steel cats hang on enough towards the end? Seems like I've heard some reports that they always don't.
On the first load burned after I put the ceramic back in yesterday, the stove stayed over 400 pretty deep into the burn, seemed like a couple hours longer. Now, that was a full load in an empty stove, not loading on various-sized coal beds as I normally do. I don't keep detailed records but I think that over the next several loads, I should be able to get a feel for weather there has been a significant change in the burn pattern. I will say that I was pleased with how I recovered room temp from 62 degrees after I had pretty much let the stove burn out so I could swap cats. But I also did a little weatherization work, so I don't know if that played a role....

I understand what you are saying about losing the active cat towards the end of the burn, but I just never experienced any difference in the way the back logs burned compared with a ceramic cat. I suppose you could say they burn down with or without a cat anyway just from the firebox heat, but I think the lack of soot in the flue tells the story.
At the end of the load, I don't think there's enough smoke in the almost-coaled wood that you could see smoke or get a lot of creo deposits in the flue. The wood will always burn up in my stove but it seems that I lose stove temp and have to open the air to burn the coals (or maybe some still-gassing wood,) trying to get into a fresh load without losing too much room temp in this leaky place. For me, until I can tighten up the envelope more, it's all about output at the end of the burn. Even if there's not a huge difference between the two, every little bit counts in my case....
 
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632 cu inch Merlin... 911 HP to crank.
I've built some big motors, but that is a monster! I'm assuming that's not a home-built motor?

Considering this is my thread, I'm at liberty to divert... more details on that engine, please! Who did the dyno work?
 
I know I can stall the cat in my Fireview by cranking the air down to below 1 ( <25%) unless it is very cold out, then I need more heat anyway so my stove pretty much always runs at about 1 on the draft control. With the ceramic cat I could lower the draft to almost the zero mark. That's when I would get high stove top temps but the rest of the stove was relatively cool. Next warm up we get I may try a distiller water/ vinegar bath to try and breath new life into the steel cat.
Is that the cleaning method? Soaking? Or do you brush the cat with vinegar after brushing off ash? Going to look at my replacement cat (steel about 1-2 years old) tonight.
 
It's an all roller block....Jesel rockers, custom Crower cam, 3" custom Hookers, Big Daddy King Sumo fuel pump from BG. Holley 1000, 33" MT's and still can't get all to the asphalt.
 
Is that the cleaning method? Soaking? Or do you brush the cat with vinegar after brushing off ash? Going to look at my replacement cat (steel about 1-2 years old) tonight.


Thanks to Dennis I learned this easy cleaning method: First brush or vacuum out the ash. Mix 1/2 distilled water and white vinegar in a spray bottle. Spray it so it soaks the cat really well, both sides. Let sit 20-30 minutes and rinse with sprayed distilled water. I used my kitchen sprayer first to get the rest of the ash out before spraying with distilled water.

Worked great, cat lit off like it was just born yesterday.
 
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