Mt Vernon AE insert not heating the square footage as I would have thought (at all!!!!)

afd_82 said:

Ok so the tec changed out a board I guess? I'm going to start the bag count over the next 24 hours and report back

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Perfect!, but you might have to start the clock after the ignition cycle is complete?

pfmaloney said:

I get very good results from my ceiling fan in distributing the heat, but I run it on low.
I had read that if you use a ceiling fan in reverse in the winter, it should be at its lowest setting to minimize cooling the heated air.

Just a thought.

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Results vary. I experimented with my ceiling fan and found that I get the best heat distribution with the fan in down mode (summer) and highest speed. I am not suggesting that this is better for everyone, just that one should experiment and find out what works best in their house.


By the way, the fan doesn't cool the heated air. The air feels cool to the skin because it extracts heat from our skin more quickly than still air.Having the fan in winter mode simply avoids the air movement being directly at you The air however is the same temperature it was without the fan. The fan whether it is winter or summer mode is simply transporting the air.

Hey afd, if your modular is one of the newer ones with 6" walls, it should heat real nice. My buddy had one that was like just over 1500 sq ft and he heated it with a quadrafire fireplace insert on 1 bag a day.

hyfire said:

Perfect!, but you might have to start the clock after the ignition cycle is complete?

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I don't understand. Ignition takes a few minutes at most. How is this going to affect bags burned per day in any significant way?

afd_82 said:

From 6pm last night to 12pm we are at 2 bags and hoper is topped off and full and the stove is on manual high. But still not hot in here....

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So, 18 hrs and only 2 bags? A16 degree avg temp day is a 2.5 bag day here. I know you have a ceiling fan, but are you sure the heat isn't up at the top of your vaulted ceiling? Does the stove appear to be cranking or is it idling from time to time? It sure doesn't seem to burn a bag every 6 or 7 hrs, since if you were maxed out, you'd be close to 3 bags.

Put that temperature sensor in the top of your 17 foot ceiling and see what reading you get. I dare you!

afd_82 said:

From 6pm last night to 12pm we are at 2 bags and hopper is topped off and full and the stove is on manual high. But still not hot in here....

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Two bags in 18 hours is only 37,000 BTU/hr input for about 30,000 BTU/hr delivered to the room. The stove should be capable of 1.6 times that. Even allowing for autoclean reducing the burn time it is still well under what the stove should be capable of.
Still the fact that it takes that much makes me wonder if you have substantial air infiltration or an uninsulated area. The reason that I say that is, I have a little PDVC in my unfinished basement with no insulation and substantial air leaks and that can get the 1200 sq ft from 54 up to 78 in about three hours. That's with the bare concrete walls being washed with air by a circulation fan. The PDVC is only capable of 22,400 BTU output max.
A good job for an infrared thermometer is scanning walls and ceilings for cold spots

afd_82 said:

The only time it is at idle is auto clean, I can't say there are not any drafts but have not any problems when with my forced hot air.

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An experiment you might want to try.
If your problem is air stagnation with the warm air all up in the cathedral ceiling, stirring the air might change things.
Back in the 70's I lived in a drafty old turn of the century three story house. The only way I was able to make the place liveable was to keep the circulating fan from the forced hot air system on all the time.
The forced convection disrupted the normal drafts that took the warm air up to the 10 foot ceilings and cold air down the uninsulated walls to where we sat.
So, as a temporary experiment, can you turn on your heating system's fan (usually controlled by a switch on the thermostat) and see if the ability of the stove to heat the space is improved?

afd_82 said:

I just turned it on only problem I see is that the only cold air retune is the most distal point of where the stove was (heat does not make it that far down the house) but you are saying you just need the air in the vent to "move things around"

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Having the return in a colder part of the house will increase the area the stove is heating, but if stagnation is the problem it should still show marked improvement.
I don't know how big your furnace is. A typical size is about 100,000BTU/hr input (my hydronic system is rated around that size). That's to heat the whole house. So If the stove is really putting out about 30% of that it should be able to heat the space. That is unless the circulation is needed to keep the hot air from floating up to the ceiling.
I think you mentioned a ceiling fan. You might want to experiment with having it blow down and high speed to see if that stirs things up.
Remember these are experiments. They will hopefully give us a clue as to what is happening.

Harvey Schneider said:

I don't understand. Ignition takes a few minutes at most. How is this going to affect bags burned per day in any significant way?

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Well on my stove anyway the igntion cycle can last up to 30 minutes where the auger will feed and stop at specific times. Lets just call it a start up cycle, until you get a standard auger/on off time in run mode...so yes it will effect the bag burning time slightly depending where you start your timing count.

afd_82 said:

From 6pm last night to 12pm we are at 2 bags and hoper is topped off and full and the stove is on manual high. But still not hot in here....

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Its not feeding enough get that tech back in, he is not doing a thorough job of fixing the issue..IMHO.

hyfire said:

Well on my stove anyway the igntion cycle can last up to 30 minutes where the auger will feed and stop at specific times. Lets just call it a start up cycle, until you get a standard auger/on off time in run mode...so yes it will effect the bag burning time slightly depending where you start your timing count.

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My MVAE starts up in a very few minutes. I remember that it preheats for about a minute before it starts to drop pellets, but after that it is typically about a minute before I see flame. It does slowly build the fire, but even at the end of a clean cycle the convection air is still hot when it ignites. If it took more than a couple of minutes I would be thinking that I need to clean the stove.
But that's just the way the MVAE works for me.YMMV

I am going to do the extact burn time that he should be seeing, not including ignition, pre heat time, etc. This is a worst case situation.

60,200 BTU OUTPUT@ 81.4% efficiency=73955 INPUT BTU


73955 INPUT/ 8000 BTU/lb=9.24 lbs/hr

40lbs/9.24 lbs/hr=4.33HRS per bag of pellets or 4.157 bags in 18 hours...........

hopper holds 56 lbs+-5 lbs, so no way you can get 2 full bags ins this unit!

hyfire said:

I am going to do the extact burn time that he should be seeing, not including ignition, pre heat time, etc. This is a worst case situation.

60,200 BTU OUTPUT@ 81.4% efficiency=73955 INPUT BTU


73955 INPUT/ 8000 BTU/lb=9.24 lbs/hr

40lbs/9.24 lbs/hr=4.33HRS per bag of pellets or 4.157 bags in 18 hours...........

hopper holds 56 lbs+-5 lbs, so no way you can get 2 full bags ins this unit!

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I think you have skewed your result slightly. In all probability the BTU/hr rating of the stove is done with the hottest pellets they could buy. Also the efficiency number is probably obtained under ideal conditions. Still, if you come in within 15% of what you expect, I will believe the result.
At three bags a day, I would estimate my MVAE is putting out an average of 41,500 BTU/hr. The peak is higher than that because the thermostat sets back to 65 for the night and bumps up to 70 early in the morning and holds there until night. The only other source of heat I have on the 1200 sq ft first floor is waste heat from the refrigerator. Even with the low temperatures we are seeing the stove manages idle time when the thermostat is satisfied.

You are correct I took the lowest btu hr pellet rating and lowest efficiency rating of the stove, so yes =-15% of my calcs could be a real world number of run time. What is interesting here is the manufacturer is rating the stove as BTU output, where other stoves usually rate as BTU input, which is nice since it gives you the true rating output....

People have asked what your flame looks like and you answered that, but I do not see that you mentioned what your flame height adjustment was set at?
The flame height along with the heat output control how much heat you are going to get. If you have it set to manual with a high heat output and a flame height of -5 or zero than you would be starving the stove of the needed fuel. When its cold out I run mine on Manual, High +5 Flame height and on softwood to get the most out of the stove with the longest run between Auto Cleaning. I tend not to worry about what the flame height looks like and go by what I need for heat. Sorry if I missed it but what is your flame height?
Second what is your fuel type set to? If it is set to utility you might try soft or hard wood setting (some of us have even been know to burn on sunflower when its real cold out but that is another post).

afd_82 said:

So burnt just shy of 3 bags

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I have lost track of timing. Three bags in how many hours and with what temperature results.

hyfire said:

Well on my stove anyway the igntion cycle can last up to 30 minutes where the auger will feed and stop at specific times. Lets just call it a start up cycle, until you get a standard auger/on off time in run mode...so yes it will effect the bag burning time slightly depending where you start your timing count.

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but his stove never shuts down!

afd_82 said:

So burnt just shy of 3 bags

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So, a little less than 3 bags in 24 hrs. As I noted earlier, this was a 2 to 2.5 bag day for me in 24 hrs in central Maine. So, was your house warmer? You certainly seemed to burn enough pellets to keep your house hot, the question is why isn't your house warm. I know you've been asked, but your room fan is on high, right?

He said he burned 2 bags in 18 hours. I say the stove on high should burn 4 bags in 18 hours ......so its still not right..and that is why his house is cold..Big glass windows and doors at night have very little R value which does not help either.