Heartbroken over a poor investment.

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WendyO said:
Jatoxico ~Let's start drinkin.... NO insulation - NO block off plate. I mentioned it to Superior Hearth and they said "I didn't need a block off plate - it's not standard with an installation" - of which I don't believe them. It's just a way to get out of doing something additional, God forbid. " No insulation needed either" . Are these procedures really not standard when installing?? It's not an technically an exterior chimney, however it backs up to room that was a garage - still a slab floor - converted into a barnsided "mantown" with a large open fireplace on an opposite wall. This room IS blocked off from the rest of the house, as it's only used on weekends and gets to be about 40 degrees when not used. We bought the Roxul the other day. We'll do it.
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My guess is they were just trying to be competitive with their bidding. A block-off plate is good sense in this case but not required or "standard". It is an extra cost requiring additional fab and installation time and materials.

*Bingo* Bringing up a room from 40F takes a ton of heat. That is part of the problem. It could take the better part of a day pumping heat into the room to get it up to temp. You not only have to get the air hot but all the contents of the room, walls and ceiling too.
 
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stoveguy2esw said:
joining in late ,

a couple things i see
1. the OP says the stove is reaching 500F when its burning so its gotta be lighting off secondaries and burning pretty well,

2. burning biobricks eliminates the "green or unseasoned wood" angle,
3. she says they think her flue isnt drafting right were this the case it would be hard to get the stove to reach those 500F temps on the stove surface.
4. i see no mention of a blower, inserts are severely limited in projecting heat using strictly radiant heat, if the unit doesnt have a blower as most of it is inside the fireplace a lot of heat gets trapped back there.

also i would check as mentiuoned above if the insallation included a block off plate above the smoke chamber. if its not there a large percentage of generated heat gets wasted into the chimney above.

as for BTU projections , one should note that stoves do not create BTU's , the fuel does, now at 40K BTU with 1 lb of wood containing roughly 8500 BTU of stored energy, the unit would have to burn roughly 4.75 LBS of wood per hour to "release" that much energy , of which a percentage of this heat has to leave up the flue (usually 30% "ish") in order to create and maintain draft. this is just the nature of the beast with a wood stove. so "output" of heat would need a higher "lbs per hour" of consumption to give that much heat to the room. the stove should have been an EPA rated unit which would have come with a tag which listed the tested output, do you still have that tag (usually its taped to inside of glass or placed in the stove)

lastly, do we know how well insulated the house is?
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Stoveguy - The blower does get used - it's set to go on "auto". However - NO block off plate or insulation! Since it would be tough to put the plate in, I could at least insulate, right? And... I have an attic floor about this room the I JUST learned about 15 minutes ago - is actually asbestos...!!!!!! After reading everyone's suggestions the last 24 hours, I thought to myself it's time to add additional insulation to the attics. I remember this gray loose stuff under the floor up there and GOOGLED "Insulation used in houses built in the 50's". A picture came up showing exactly what's up there - with the caption: ASBESTOS. So... if my house doesn't burn down first, then I'll die of asbestos poisoning.
 
All of what you said sounds like the worst possible conditions for this stove to work. Beside the heat going up the chimney, the location of the stove room doesn't sound very good. Buyer beware. It is hard to get it right on your own, but your paid a so called professional.
 
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Ram 1500 with an axe... said:
Just an FYI....not all inserts need a blockoff plate at the bottom, I too have a SS liner, an outside brick chimney....
I did some experimenting this year, I ran the insert without the surround. I came to the conclusion that my insert does not give off heat near the top back or sides. It comes out the front and up the flue. The more I closed the flue, the less heat would go up the flue, the hotter the stove would get, the warmer my room would get. I did this for over a week using an ir thermometer. I did this experiment because many people here say that is the answer, I told my friend who installed it and said I was crazy and not to listen. My problem was babying the stove, not filling it up, amoung others like too many windows and no insulation, the weather, ect....just saying, while we wait for Weny's response....
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Hi Ram - why don't all stoves need a block off plate? ( Of which we don't have... buy we did get the insulation not too long ago and will be putting that in this weekend.... )
 
ddddddden said:
+1
The bottom line is that you can stuff only so much wood into a tiny firebox. If you're serious about heating your home with wood, that means burning 24/7 in winter. . .not much fun with a small stove that would require loading every ~5 hours.




Trade in while you can.==c
When installing the new stove, get them to seal the damper area of the masonry chimney with a block-off plate.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate

Looks like Superior carries Enviro and Pacific Energy stoves too. . .maybe look at those if the big Jøtul is too pricey or won't fit. Moving forwad, you can improve your wood supply and burn technique. . .why hinder your efforts with a stove that is too small for your needs?

http://www.superiorathome.com/Retail/Inserts/wood.html

http://www.superiorathome.com/Retail/Stoves/wood.html
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DDDDD ---- I think I will go larger. ( Darn it... I wish I didn't have to spend the money ) I really like the look of the Jotul - and will probably go from the 350 to the 550. What the heck. What do you ( or anyone ) recommend? Should I go with the larger Jotul `for $800 more - or go with the same upgrade in size with a Pacific Energy for an additional $300????? This is an investment. I want a good stove. I'll worry about the payment later...
 
begreen said:
My guess is they were just trying to be competitive with their bidding. A block-off plate is good sense in this case but not required or "standard". It is an extra cost requiring additional fab and installation time and materials.

*Bingo* Bringing up a room from 40F takes a ton of heat. That is part of the problem. It could take the better part of a day pumping heat into the room to get it up to temp. You not only have to get the air hot but all the contents of the room, walls and ceiling too.
Click to expand...

The woodstove is not in that room. The COLD room is on the other side of the wall to it, and that room is blocked of from the rest of the house - only used on weekends. There is no woodstove in there. MY living room ( not mantown ) has the woodstove in it.
 
Ah, got it. Might as well go big if the fireplace will accommodate a large stove. One insert to suggest is the Enviro Venice. Another is the Hampton HI 300. Both are very good looking and good heaters. In PE their big one is the Summit.
 
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WendyO said:
I saved for 3 years to buy a wood stove insert this past November, thinking it would help keep my fuel costs down. I paid an arm and a leg for a Jotul, that claimed to put out 40,000 btu's for up to 1,300 sq. ft. It's the smallest insert of the 3 I looked at - but I live in a small house ( 1,400 sq. foot Cape. ) so I bought it. After burning through 1.5 cords of wood - and 100's of $ of bio bricks ( as we were told to try by retailer who sold us the stove ) and now on tank #2 of oil AND a kerosene heater in addition, I can honestly say that claim of 40,000 btu's is bull!!!! I am so upset about this I can't tell you. After MANY phone calls to the retailer, a service tech FINALLY came to the house to check out the stove. He said the wood was a bit damp ( though it burns fine in our other fireplace ) and we weren't getting the stove hot enough. As a result, it wasn't putting out the heat. Duh. Really? So I bought a thermometer, and got the insert consistently up over 500 degrees. Still no great results. Now we're into end of January - and they tell us perhaps the chimney isn't drafting right. So... the service tech comes and extends the top of our center chimney by 3 feet because perhaps the draft wasn't working properly. It worked a bit better - but STILL not getting that " need to wear only a t-shirt " kind of heat. No where near it. Now it's March --- many many phone calls later and still no solution. I am so upset about this $3,800 investment that I am ready to go to the Better Business Bureau about Superior Hearth, Spa and Leisure in Southington, CT who could CARE LESS - and Jotul Corporate about their misrepresentation. Superior's solution?? Buy a bigger stove for an additional $800.00

Has anyone a suggestion for me? Am I doing something wrong? Please...
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I've learned some things from all of you...

1.Start chopping wood now - to be well seasoned for next year. And very very very dry.
2. No Oak or Ash.
3. Perhaps I need a bigger stove for what I'm trying to heat.
4. Keep it stoked and once it's cranking, keep the control lever open 1/8" .
5. I need to re-insulate my house. It will help retain the heat - and by removing the asbestos I found in the attic today, I will live longer.
6. I need to look at new windows - and have an energy audit done for any additional suggestions.

This is only the beginning.
 
Nothing wrong with oak or ash. Both need to be seasoned. Oak will be your friend in the dead of "0" winter.
 
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Oak and hickory take a couple years to season after splitting but ash is wonderful short seasoning wood. If you can get ash go for it.
It's good to consider tightening up the house. Leave the windows until last (but with storm windows). New windows are expensive and have a much longer ROI.
 
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begreen said:
Ah, got it. Might as well go big if the fireplace will accommodate a large stove. One insert to suggest is the Enviro Venice. Another is the Hampton HI 300. Both are very good looking and good heaters. In PE their big one is the Summit.
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B - I have to stay with the original retailer... They are only charging me for the upgrade or I can pick another brand that they carry. ( Pacific Energy - but I don't like the way it looks. I like the Jotul better. )
 
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If you are going to insulate and improve house sealing then that will reduce the heat requirements. Perhaps then the Jotul C450 will suffice. It is a nice insert.
 
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Is it $800 more for the 550? I would go with that one, I'd prefer the Summit but the 450 and 550's are both nice stoves too.
 
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WendyO said:
$800 in addition to the $3,800 I already paid!
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I understand, these stoves and installation aren't cheap but once you get squared away your house will be warmer and oil bills smaller so it will pay off, just look at this year as your orientation to wood burning.
 
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WendyO said:
Hi Ram - why don't all stoves need a block off plate? ( Of which we don't have... buy we did get the insulation not too long ago and will be putting that in this weekend.... )
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Put it in, it can't hurt...
 
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I vote for the 550....gl
 
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WendyO said:
So... if my house doesn't burn down first, then I'll die of asbestos poisoning.
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Look at the bright side, at least the asbestos won't burn! ;lol...==c...:rolleyes:...;hm sorry, I'll go to my room now
 
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WendyO said:
I've learned some things from all of you...
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Hearth.com comes to the rescue again--what a great forum. So glad to hear you are willing to stick with your investment.

This has been a REALLY harsh winter. I am a first year burner and I was hoping to not use any oil but have had to use some because of the extreme cold.

I have an Alderlea made by Pacific Energy--I don't know if they have inserts but they have the same box as the PE's but a beautiful look because the steel is covered with a cast iron apron. Good luck. Don't give up.
 
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It's tough choice, but I say in for a penny in for a pound. Your already committed and if they will upgrade you for 800 more for a much bigger unit I say go for it. Today I had a Napoleon 1402 insert installed at 1pm. Right now my 1400 sq foot down stairs is 74 degrees. I'm burning 3 year old oak that my neighbor gave me . Good luck let us know how you make out, I feel your anxiety.
 
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WendyO said:
Hi Ram - why don't all stoves need a block off plate? ( Of which we don't have... buy we did get the insulation not too long ago and will be putting that in this weekend.... )
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Check with the experts here to make sure you leave a clearance between the insulation and the stove. My understanding is there needs to be space to naturally convect heat away from the stove and not concentrate it in the appliance itself. Might shoot for insulating the left, right, back and top if possible to do so safely.

The blower pulls a ton of heat out of the stove (that's the point, right?), but if you had a roaring fire and electric goes off, your stove might hit temperatures that'll get your heart racing if it's totally packed with insulation. And your stove may have a secondary air intake in the rear that needs to stay open. These guys know all that stuff. Check your clearance, Clarence.
 
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dyerkutn said:
Hearth.com comes to the rescue again--what a great forum. So glad to hear you are willing to stick with your investment.

This has been a REALLY harsh winter. I am a first year burner and I was hoping to not use any oil but have had to use some because of the extreme cold.

I have an Alderlea made by Pacific Energy--I don't know if they have inserts but they have the same box as the PE's but a beautiful look because the steel is covered with a cast iron apron. Good luck. Don't give up.
Click to expand...

Not a bad suggestion. Take a look at the Alderlea Insert.
 
WendyO, I wanted to point out when you said the wood burns in the fire place, that a fire place has alot of air so subpar wood would burn but the same wood can be bad for these newer epa stoves. These stoves are more like smoke burners. The extra moisture in sub par not so seasoned wood cools the stove and doesnt get the stove into its smoke burning mode of operation. But the other guys are right you need a bigger stove. Just wanted to explain this aspect.
 
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