New electric car battery plant.

brenndatomu said:

Electric cars solve one problem, create several others...not a solution IMO.

Not extinct, just endangered

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Yep all this talk about batteries and e-vehicles saving so much, sorry still got to:1 create battery - Lot of energy used there plus consumables that are not green ect ( somehow never makes into conversation) 2 charging batteries- where the hxxx do you think that juice is coming from.? 3- when the battery is shot- now you have problems with disposal.,
So with the above inmind please include with your cost comparisons the amounts of coal oil lp NG to produce said clean vehicle - makes not much different than my dino units.
Same with the ethanol in the current fuel- doesn't save a thing- cost more to produce than without- due to the ethanol production costs have risen on other items such as food due to the competition of acquiring base materials.
So to sum it simple - one giant scam on consumer.
So now that I have alienated about 2 thirds of the readers of this thread have a nice day

The simple fact that EVs offer the opportunity for use of renewable energy that can be produced from sunlight collected on my property sways me.
This also is the primary reason we heat with wood.
There may be stored chemical energy lying below my few acres (sort of like a battery if you think about it) but I'm not going to sacrifice my little piece of heaven to access it.
If I"m not mistaken, the preponderance of evidence shows that when the cradle-to-grave, life-cycle cost/benefits of vehicles are considered, EVs and HEVs come out ahead of those burning up our vast inheritance of well sequestered carbon. Admittedly, the evidence is mixed on this but then I go back to my first statement above.

Edit: after writing this it struck me as ironic that many of those that push for 'living within our means' as a nation financially are the same that would have us exhaust our large inheritance of (fossil) energy wealth rather than live on the annuity of sunlight provided to us.

blades said:

Yep all this talk about batteries and e-vehicles saving so much, sorry still got to:1 create battery - Lot of energy used there plus consumables that are not green ect ( somehow never makes into conversation) 2 charging batteries- where the hxxx do you think that juice is coming from.? 3- when the battery is shot- now you have problems with disposal.,
So with the above inmind please include with your cost comparisons the amounts of coal oil lp NG to produce said clean vehicle - makes not much different than my dino units.
Same with the ethanol in the current fuel- doesn't save a thing- cost more to produce than without- due to the ethanol production costs have risen on other items such as food due to the competition of acquiring base materials.
So to sum it simple - one giant scam on consumer.
So now that I have alienated about 2 thirds of the readers of this thread have a nice day

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1) Battery materials can be recycled.
2) IC engines are very inefficient, being designed for power/mass, ability to throttle and low cost/maintenance, compared to high eff stationary turbines.
3) We agree 100% on Ethanol. Let's scale it back 80% to the min needed for a fuel additive. A huge amount of new land was put in production for the entire useless exercise == less natural habitat for no good reason whatever.

When Iran oil comes back online Brent crude will drop to $80 or below. If Iraq settles down it could go lower (President Putin is about to relive the end of the 1980s!) $2.50 gasoline could be a damper on sales but $150/kw is some magic number for utilities so I guess that would help. Smart cars charging at night and smoothing out peak loads during the day would lead to a very robust system.

I'm a big believer in the electric car. I would love to see Tesla become the new mega-super-hyper-Apple conglomerate of all encompassing ethos. But this is round II of pump and dump for them. The first round netted them 2 billion in stock to keep the Model S afloat (love the car, but they needed the cash). This round gets them another 2.5 billion (unbelievably favorable terms) and values the company at 34 billion dollars. That's almost 1 million dollars for every car they sell. It's kind of interesting that they would choose to hype the diversification into the utility market as justification for a factory they desperately need in order to be able to build a mass produced <40k car. Keep in mind that meanwhile the rest of the electric car battery market is swimming in excess capacity. Nissan already has a 500k sqft factory in Tennesee (built with 1.4B in taxpayer loans, but apparently it's only vogue to trash American companies right now) capable of supplying batteries for 200,000 cars. Currently employing 300 people and chugging away at 7% capacity.


The megafactory is already built. I don't know if a gigafactory is going to be that big of an improvement. We'll have to see what Tesla comes up with for their Model E. One thing they've done right is understand people will buy the car they want vs the car that's good for them.