Beta testing Woodstock's Ideal Steel Hybrid

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I wanted to clarify something with the Beta testers. I am having a mason start some work on my existing masonry fireplace to accommodate the IS. I will likely be lowering and extending the hearth.
In previous threads from Beta testers the stove depth was said to be 23 inches. However, the new information on Woodstock's website is saying the depth is 27 inches. Is the additional 4 inches from the ash lip? Also, I am a bit confused on the front clearance requirement. Lets assume the front clearance is 16". The stove sits ~4" off the hearth, the hearth is raised 6", so the stove would have to sit 6" from the front of the hearth to achieve the 16"?
The front hearth clearance for the IS is yet to be determined through official testing. It should be noted that the 16" clearance at the loading door side of a wood stove can not be reduced. The 16" minimum clearance is mainly for ember protection should a stray fall out of the door and roll away from the stove. Hearth height can be used to minimize clearances on the non-loading sides, but we as manufacturers usually list MINIMUM clearances. More is always better if you have the space
 
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By minimum side clearances do you mean the minimum hearth width? That is the clearance to the floor and not to walls on the side or rear of the hearth?
 
By minimum side clearances do you mean the minimum hearth width? That is the clearance to the floor and not to walls on the side or rear of the hearth?
Sorry I wasn't clear. The minimum hearth width could be reduced. Not the clearances to walls to the side or rear.
 
Sorry I wasn't clear. The minimum hearth width could be reduced. Not the clearances to walls to the side or rear.
No problem, your input is always greatly appreciated. There's a lot of curiosity about the new stove.
 
No problem, your input is always greatly appreciated. There's a lot of curiosity about the new stove.
We enjoy the Buzz around a new stove. We are all very excited as well. I think this stove will have a lot to offer to a lot of folks with different heating needs. From all of the pre-production interest it looks like it may be awhile before I get my hands on one!
 
I would venture the guess that the PH puts out higher maximum BTU because it has periods where you cannot take it out of secondary burn into cat burn, You can achieve a slow secondary burn, but you do get a secondary burn, and that burns your wood more quickly. Hence, the PH does not get 20 hour burn times as a general rule, although it can be done. The IS has direct dedicated air to the cat, so the cat will always have air for a cat burn. Since the hybrid stoves are designed to burn in cat or secondary mode automatically when that mode is more efficient, I'm guessing the IS will burn in cat mode more than the PH. The PH sometimes won't revert to cat when it would be most efficient, because the secondaries starve the cat for air (although eventually the stove reverts to cat burn). This is usually for a couple of hours on a higher burn, or when you aim for an extended high burn because of outside conditions. Net result is that you can get more BTUs per hour out of the PH because you can burn the wood faster.

When you are not going for maximum heat output, I find the stove combusts my wood very slowly and efficiently.
 
Im still waiting to hear if the Lintel height has been officially dropped to a 27.3" minimum for a rear vent fireplace install.
No answer yet, I asked yesterday. Some changes may still be made but they wanted to get something on the website regarding the stove. I'll let you know if I hear anything, please do the same for me. thanks
 
We haven't put our money down yet, but are quite sure we will be buying an Ideal Steel at Woodstock's introductory prices, as it is a pretty sweet deal all around for us - a chance to play with the stove for a season at no cost, and then a very nice price break for being a beta tester. (http://blog.woodstove.com/2014/03/beta-testing-and-pre-production-prices.html) We like the changes we've seen, like stovetop hinges moved out of sight, and I'm quite excited about the chance to have a cat probe on one of these stoves (there will be a port on the front). We think we will stay with our original color scheme and embellishments, although likely just get the one center-piece and forego the gears. As Woodstock transitions to production mode for the Ideal Steel, they are already talking about another new stove in the works (hmmm - should we hold off on buying an Ideal Steel?).

We haven't had much new to report the past month, as we were simply trying to run as hot as we could. We kept it up in the 600-650 range as much as possible, and only hit 700+ twice (distracted). I thought we were finally getting a stretch of warmer nights, but I see a couple this week in low single digits.

Huh - as I'm writing this, my wife just saw some details on their website regarding changes they have made to the design - looks like I have some reading to do... http://blog.woodstove.com/2014/03/ideal-steel-improvements.html
 
Most definitely Tom has made some good changes in the stove and no doubt he will continue to do so.

I'm wondering if 700 is perhaps the recommended high stove top temperature on this stove? I have not asked Woodstock about this but feel this stove should easily surpass that temperature if needed. No doubt you'll still have some serious burning to do yet this spring. I see we are headed back below zero again this week so it will no doubt hit you too.
 
Most definitely Tom has made some good changes in the stove and no doubt he will continue to do so.

I'm wondering if 700 is perhaps the recommended high stove top temperature on this stove? I have not asked Woodstock about this but feel this stove should easily surpass that temperature if needed. No doubt you'll still have some serious burning to do yet this spring. I see we are headed back below zero again this week so it will no doubt hit you too.

Our beta stove gets a bit more air on the right side then the left, so we go by a Woodstock thermometer placed on the top of the stove, just to the right of the plate covering the top-vent location. We also have one on the front, above the door, just for fun, in a spot that gets a lot of heat from the cat. I try to keep the needle out of the red, but suspect this box could take more abuse than we have given it. We are up over 4 cord through it, and all is well.

Both cold and snow on the way, but the sun has a lot more strength these days, and today I made it home with ample daylight to spare, so things are looking up.
 
another beta tester here. I haven't had a chance to bring my review to this forum yet (its at another forum...am I allowed to say that?). Anyway. I have pushed it over 800 twice :confused:, not on purpose. It does take time though. It won't just run off out of control. Both times were with a full load of good fuel, cat engaged and air almost completely open. Once I spaced it and the temp was 800 or so for a short time, the other time I fell asleep lying in front of it so it spent some time in the 800+ range. Well that was one HOT alarm clock. Since this thing throws so much heat out the front, it felt like I woke up on the sun. I would guess I napped for like an hour. Anyway, long story short, I was able to bring the temp back pretty easily/quickly with the air set way down and the stove hasn't shone any signs of issues from that. The only thing that did happen was the smoke shield bent. I never use it, I leave it in the up position, but the day after the second 800+ experience I notice it was bent. I think the conclusion was it expanded length wise from the extreme heat and bent itself. Of course they sent a new one a day later and sent the old back for examination (FYI, very simple design to pop that in and out).
 
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and I don't need 700+ temps for any length of time out of this stove. I have a pretty good size house and that is too much heat for my house. I have run 650 for periods of time, when it's cold, but typically run around 500. My Isle Royale runs at a higher temp 700+, but the IS I like at around 5-600.
 
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I thought at one point Woodstock suggested an automatic thermostat for this stove. Any word on that?
 
and I don't need 700+ temps for any length of time out of this stove. I have a pretty good size house and that is too much heat for my house. I have run 650 for periods of time, when it's cold, but typically run around 500. My Isle Royale runs at a higher temp 700+, but the IS I like at around 5-600.
Are you saying it heats your house as well at 5-600 as the IR did at 700?
 
I thought at one point Woodstock suggested an automatic thermostat for this stove. Any word on that?

You are perhaps thinking about the automatic control on air to the catalyst and that is in place but no auto for the main draft.
 
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Are you saying it heats your house as well at 5-600 as the IR did at 700?

Without getting into boring details, I would guess that the IS heats the house at 600 similar to the IR at 700 (totally not scientific guess, but yes there is a difference). It is a much larger stove, so more mass, so more transfer, etc. This also means it takes longer to get the IS up to the higher temps, and it uses more fuel to get there, etc.....so I am not saying the IS is more efficient than the IR, that would be splitting hairs I think. I am just saying that once they are both at 700, the IS will have me sweating sooner (but I would assume it would have used more wood to get there).

The big difference is, I have the option to pull the temp back on the IS without running the risk of smoldering and smoking out the chimney. So I can fit a larger load, get it up to temp, and then set it back to whatever I want. I have found that I can basically pick a stove top temp by setting the air to a specific spot (after I got everything hot first). So for me, I want a stove temp of 500 for the day, I set the air to 25%. Later in the cycle I want 600, I move the air towards 50%, then back down again later if I want.

Compared to the IR, it likes to run hotter, so you wind up controlling the output with smaller loads etc. on the shoulder seasons.

Don't take any of this as negative towards my IR. I love my IR. Just sharing the differences.
 
Without getting into boring details, I would guess that the IS heats the house at 600 similar to the IR at 700 (totally not scientific guess, but yes there is a difference). It is a much larger stove, so more mass, so more transfer, etc. This also means it takes longer to get the IS up to the higher temps, and it uses more fuel to get there, etc.....so I am not saying the IS is more efficient than the IR, that would be splitting hairs I think. I am just saying that once they are both at 700, the IS will have me sweating sooner (but I would assume it would have used more wood to get there).

The big difference is, I have the option to pull the temp back on the IS without running the risk of smoldering and smoking out the chimney. So I can fit a larger load, get it up to temp, and then set it back to whatever I want. I have found that I can basically pick a stove top temp by setting the air to a specific spot (after I got everything hot first). So for me, I want a stove temp of 500 for the day, I set the air to 25%. Later in the cycle I want 600, I move the air towards 50%, then back down again later if I want.

Compared to the IR, it likes to run hotter, so you wind up controlling the output with smaller loads etc. on the shoulder seasons.

Don't take any of this as negative towards my IR. I love my IR. Just sharing the differences.

In your opinion, does the ideal steel use less wood overall than the Isle Royale? Are the burn times much longer? Which stove do you prefer?
 
Can the IS run at 300F for 12 hrs?
 
In your opinion, does the ideal steel use less wood overall than the Isle Royale? Are the burn times much longer? Which stove do you prefer?

As for using more or less wood - I don't have a way to compare that for a couple of reasons. 1 I got the beta in the middle of January, so I can't compare how much wood I used in a season, 2 even if I could, this year has been a cold one so I have used the stove more, 3 my wood is not as seasoned as it normally is (using more Canawick blocks mixed in to keep things hot). Having said that, I could only assume, if I kept the house at the same temp, and the outside temps were the same, that the stoves would use about the same amount of wood. They are both very efficient stoves, so would we just be splitting hairs? Or is that a bad assumption?

Burn times longer - Yes. the IS has a much larger firebox, so that alone allows more wood. I can also turn the temp down, so the temp is a little lower, allowing for a longer burn, and the stove stays warmer for longer at the end of a cycle because of it's mass (stone seems to help with this). So for example, with the IR, the max I could do with the CanaWick bricks was 40lbs (one package). It could maybe fit a little more, but you risk over-firing at that point. And that would keep the house warm for up to 12 hrs (I would say 8-12, 12 is definitely on the high end, 8 more common). With the IS I can easily fit 80lbs (twice as much) and get 24 hrs of heat (again, on the high end). Now with the IS I can do more than 80lbs without concern of over-firing as the air control and the cat make it work differently, so I can dial the temp back as needed and not be concerned of it running away. I wanted to spend more time finding the true temp/heat numbers with the bricks (40lbs, 80lbs, 80+, etc), but I am starting to run out and as I mentioned before, I need them to mix with my cord wood.

Then the last question - the tough one. Which do I prefer. I almost feel like I am comparing apples to oranges. Even though the stats say the firebox is similar, they are not. The IS is a larger stove. Also, the IS is cat, the IR is not. So they each have their pros / cons. I will just ramble off some thoughts.

Getting the Cat stove to the "right" temp and everything cruising properly (that means no smoke from the chimney, to me) I find more tricky and struggle more with that, but in fairness, I have only spent 2 months with it vs 5 years with the non-cat.

The size of the IS is great. In the end, it just means less loading, so less work.

Looks - I like the looks of the IS, and love the ability to customize it, BUT both my wife and I prefer the cast iron and love the looks of the IR. My wife is not a big fan of the box look of the IS. But this is completely a taste, non performance issue.

So far, it seems I can burn less desirable wood cleaner in the IR, but that just may be because I know the IR better.

Love that the IS is so controllable. I know I have said this other places, just don't remember where, but you can basically pick your temp with the air setting. The IR has a temp cycle it likes to do. You can dial it back, but it is no where near as responsive as the IS. Oh and the Air slide with the markings, ALL stoves should have something like this. That is so simple and genius.

Honestly, they are both great stoves. I wish I could combine my likes on both.

So I guess the questions for a buyer
-cat or not
-stone or cast iron performance(I know the IS is steel, but the stone liner makes is perform like a stone, from what I have read). I think by soft heat, they are just saying it takes more time to heat it up, but then it slowly lets the heat out at the end also, so the "spike" in temp during the start of the cycle isn't as extreme.
-Appearance
-Firebox size, as the IS requires less loading because it is a bigger stove
 
What is the lowest temp the IS will cruise at?

Other buyer questions:
- clearance requirements
- blower needed?
 
I am not sure what the lowest cruise would be. I think we will have to wait for warmer weather. BUT there is at least one video out there with a 24 hr burn early in the season by one of the other beta testers. I think he put some up on youtube (A couple of guys have videos kicking around out there). They give a lot of info on temp throughout so that should give you an idea of the low end cruise temp.

Actually, I think you can get the video I am talking about through woodstocks blog http://blog.woodstove.com/

Also I think they are providing some of stats on the website now for clearances
http://www.woodstove.com/ideal-steel-hybrid

Blower - I don't need one, so haven't paid attention to it. I believe others have asked, but I don't think there is one available. Having said that, the people at woodstock are VERY responsive to questions. Call or email and they will be happy to answer any of the specifics.

I forgot to add that to the Pros for the IS - The people at woodstock really love what they do and it shows. Been great to work with on this Beta.
 
Yes they are very customer friendly
 
Do either of y'all have the ash pan? If so thoughts on it? Sorry if this has been adressed already. Looking forward to the upgrade.
 
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