I am a newbie looking for a PTO driven pellet mill.

shealray · Mar 19, 2014

I am a newbie looking for a pellet mill.
My experience is with farm equipment PTO driven implements.
I have a 48 HP tractor and want to put a PTO driven pellet mill to make wood pellets for my stove and animal feed.
I have looked all over the internet and noticed there are a lot of units that are the same being sold all over the united states they have flooded the market with them. I brought from one out fit who did not even look in the shipping crate from china and sent the wrong shaft I sent it back and money is being refunded.
So I am looking at the model GH300 from Gardenheat.com it suppose to run up to 47 hp PTO driven.
Any one care to guide me and tell me pit falls to look out for. Sure could use the assistance.
Thank You For Your Time

jtakeman · Mar 19, 2014

Most of the mills you see out there are china made mills.......

I did see a listing on ebay that was in the states.

shealray · Mar 19, 2014

jtakeman said:
Most of the mills you see out there are china made mills.......

I did see a listing on ebay that was in the states.

I did not find any actually made in the USA. All gear, die and roller boxes are from china. Have
you had any experience with the china pellet mills?

jtakeman · Mar 19, 2014

shealray said:
I did not find any actually made in the USA. All gear, die and roller boxes are from china. Have
you had any experience with the china pellet mills?

Yes, They are flat die units and not much compression. You won't get extreme density out of them. But they will burn OK. You'll also need a lot of space to cool and dry the fuel.

The round die mills are the ticket, But at 20K to 50K or more? Not in my life time.

shealray · Mar 19, 2014

jtakeman said:
Yes, They are flat die units and not much compression. You won't get extreme density out of them. But they will burn OK. You'll also need a lot of space to cool and dry the fuel.

The round die mills are the ticket, But at 20K to 50K or more? Not in my life time.

So do the roller and die hold up or wear down fast? It look to me they created PTO by tacking off the motor driven and put on a long shaft for small tractors. I am retired now, but past career was in mechanical design. The mills are in line shafts driven by electric motors. By running with PTO you would not have good bearing to run at a very steep angel. So the PTO on a tractor would have to be as straight as possible to the mill. Any one had experience with PTO driven units.

tjnamtiw · Mar 19, 2014

You will also need a hammer mill to get the feedstock down to small enough size. And you will most likely need a binding agent to get better quality pellets. Like jtakeman said, you'll need a lot of other equipment to do it right. You can do some searches on here to find out what we know about the process. The only pellet mill I know of that's made in the US is from Buskirk Engineering. They make two sizes and have variable frequency drives but they don't advertise PTO versions. You could talk to them though. They are very knowledgeable.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/make-your-own-pellets-no-shortages-ever.125749/#post-1688958 See my comments there. I had the entire setup including diesel pelletizer and diesel hammer mill and spare parts shipped to my door for $4K but didn't pull the trigger. China made mills sold here are grossly overpriced!

shealray · Mar 20, 2014

tjnamtiw said:
You will also need a hammer mill to get the feedstock down to small enough size. And you will most likely need a binding agent to get better quality pellets. Like jtakeman said, you'll need a lot of other equipment to do it right. You can do some searches on here to find out what we know about the process. The only pellet mill I know of that's made in the US is from Buskirk Engineering. They make two sizes and have variable frequency drives but they don't advertise PTO versions. You could talk to them though. They are very knowledgeable.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/make-your-own-pellets-no-shortages-ever.125749/#post-1688958 See my comments there. I had the entire setup including diesel pelletizer and diesel hammer mill and spare parts shipped to my door for $4K but didn't pull the trigger. China made mills sold here are grossly overpriced!

I bale big round bales and thought the hay would be the source for the pellet machine.
It does concern me about the die hole clogging up. I am guessing if the mixture is not right
the holes clog up.
On the china machines it must be the USA resellers and the demand creating the pricing.
It seems to me this is much like the housing bubble and it will bust causing the pricing to
come down fast due to to a saturated market. Like the housing market I believe now the buyer
has the upper hand and can demand better pricing.
I have a call into Buskirk Enginnering waiting for them to return my call.
Thanks for the information.

hoverfly · Mar 20, 2014

The bottom line is that its not cost effective compared to large operations.

shealray · Mar 20, 2014

hoverfly said:
The bottom line is that its not cost effective compared to large operations.

When I told people I was going to bale hay this was their response.
You do not know how to bale hay.
I will cost you lots of money to get the equipment.
I now do big round bales and squares using old equipment I learned to repair.
Not only did I learn how to cut, rake and bale hay it boiled down to this.
It is a matter of having.
I cut small acres the big boys with expensive equipment cannot do.
When their was a drought last year I had lots of hay to feed my 3 horses.
My neighbor who has 5 horses and no hay equipment is paying high prices for hay.
The neighbor was complaining and stated “I do not have the hay equipment you do.”
I worked hard to fix the old equipment and learn do make my own hay.
When you depend on others for resources you are at there mercy and pricing.
“It is a matter of having” I can use the hay I bale to make pellets for my stove and keep warm when others cannot find pellets anywhere to buy.

hoverfly · Mar 20, 2014

A few members and I went to a pellet factory in Vermont last winter and the conclusion is that it's energy intensive and only on a large scale that its feasible.

The processes milling a pellet is under the friction and pressure of the die. This is to cause the lighten or the "glue" in the biomass to bind the fibers together in order to hold the shape of a pellet. If you can't get the die hot enough then you have to use a binder. That is the main issue with small pellet mills for making wood pellets It will not generate enough heat. Also the pellets need to be cooled down quickly after it passes through the die, If not then the pellets will fall apart. If you want total energy independence stick with fire wood. It has been well documented this winter, even wood pellets fall under the economic practices of supply and demand.

Also grass pellets have been not so successes full, lots of ash and produces nasty clinkers. Now if you have a lot of golden rod there is a company in NY State that had been making pellets form such material. If you are hell bent on doing this do your home work, or it's going to be an expensive bust.

shealray · Mar 20, 2014

hoverfly said:
A few members and I went to a pellet factory in Vermont last winter and the conclusion is that it's energy intensive and only on a large scale that its feasible.

The processes milling a pellet is under the friction and pressure of the die. This is to cause the lighten or the "glue" in the biomass to bind the fibers together in order to hold the shape of a pellet. If you can't get the die hot enough then you have to use a binder. That is the main issue with small pellet mills for making wood pellets It will not generate enough heat. Also the pellets need to be cooled down quickly after it passes through the die, If not then the pellets will fall apart. If you want total energy independence stick with fire wood. It has been well documented this winter, even wood pellets fall under the economic practices of supply and demand.

Also grass pellets have been not so successes full, lots of ash and produces nasty clinkers. Now if you have a lot of golden rod there is a company in NY State that had been making pellets form such material. If you are hell bent on doing this do your home work, or it's going to be an expensive bust.

What is the name of the company in NY State?

peakbagger · Mar 20, 2014

Most residential type pellet burner will have a tough time with hay or switchgrass. There is a lot of silica in in and it builds up. There are some commercial pellet burners that can but the silica content has been what has killed the market for pellets made out of grasses.

shealray · Mar 20, 2014

peakbagger said:
Most residential type pellet burner will have a tough time with hay or switchgrass. There is a lot of silica in in and it builds up. There are some commercial pellet burners that can but the silica content has been what has killed the market for pellets made out of grasses.

What is silica and how does it build up in the die?

rich2500 · Mar 20, 2014

Have you called and talked to Bruce at gardenheat,he has made pellets from almost anything imaginable.

tjnamtiw · Mar 20, 2014

hoverfly said:
A few members and I went to a pellet factory in Vermont last winter and the conclusion is that it's energy intensive and only on a large scale that its feasible.

The processes milling a pellet is under the friction and pressure of the die. This is to cause the lighten or the "glue" in the biomass to bind the fibers together in order to hold the shape of a pellet. If you can't get the die hot enough then you have to use a binder. That is the main issue with small pellet mills for making wood pellets It will not generate enough heat. Also the pellets need to be cooled down quickly after it passes through the die, If not then the pellets will fall apart. If you want total energy independence stick with fire wood. It has been well documented this winter, even wood pellets fall under the economic practices of supply and demand.

Also grass pellets have been not so successes full, lots of ash and produces nasty clinkers. Now if you have a lot of golden rod there is a company in NY State that had been making pellets form such material. If you are hell bent on doing this do your home work, or it's going to be an expensive bust.

Source for binder for these little mills

http://www.mataminc.com/woodfuel.php

hoverfly · Mar 21, 2014

shealray said:
What is silica and how does it build up in the die?

Sand like mineral, probably builds up on the die under the heat generated.

tjnamtiw · Mar 21, 2014

http://pubs.aic.ca/doi/abs/10.4141/cjas71-045

What do you know, silica is in hay! I guess it draws it up as it pulls water from the soil. Live and learn. Actually when you first get your pellet machine, you are supposed to run a mixture of sand or sandblast media through it to smooth out the dies. I read journals of guys using the machines who got reamers to smooth out the rough inside of the die holes and then polished them to keep from getting them plugged. They also found it advantageous to chamfer the top of the holes.
LIke they said, do a LOT of research before plunking down any money! If possible, take YOUR product and watch them make pellets with it and record the throughput rate. It's a labor of love. Kind of like building a hotrod that you know you'll never get your money out of. Words of wisdom there!

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