Innovation in Pellet Stoves

What do you desire in your forward dreams for a pellet stove? Auto Ignition? got that. auto dump of the pot? got that. Large fuel hopper? got that. Large ash drawer? got that. Do you want to be able to control your stove away from home? You can do that via computer or smart phone. Dependability? got that. Run on 12 volt if power goes out? got that too.
Maintenance free? Nope all stoves require maintenance, cleaning stove and cleaning pipes are part of saving money.
I have seen stoves that sold for over 4,000.00 in 20007 now are for sale for 2200 and how much more is the Harman 68 worth now then 10 years ago?
If you have a proven product and have a demand why change it ? If you want to revolutionize the market with a new stove look at Quad when they came out with the AE. The first few years were a nightmare. It cost a large sum to develop a new stove and they can't capture the return on investment in just a couple years.
If you look at the first pellet stoves they were very simple machines and it took a while before the concept caught on and got popular. As time went on the electric igniters came on the scene and then the companies were forced to make advancements to keep up with the competition.
If you had one of the first pellet stoves and compared to the newer ones you understand the progress made.

piazzetta prob. has one of the best burn systems out there.the new rikas and a few other european brands have really progressed.But they also have a large influx of cheaper(usually chinese) stoves,same as over here,so manufacturers have to try to balance out between lincolns and pintos,depends on what the market will bear.The harman system is very dependable,but the parent co. also sells low budget stuff.

Hmm I sort of like my old St Croix SCF 050 and Magnum countryside, Kind of basic, No auto ignition but not much to go wrong either. I pulled out my Breckwell with the auto ignition and put the Magnum in the same spot. I'm much happier with the Magnum.

Using a pellet stove is so much easier than firewood I am one happy camper.

Arti said:

Hmm I sort of like my old St Croix SCF 050 and Magnum countryside, Kind of basic

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That's actually a feature I like about my countryside. Nothing fancy, just simple.

It's like a good fishing setup. K-I-S-S

The original pellet stove the Whitfield, was very simple. Have to clean burn tray after half day if burning good pellets. Manual start. One speed room fan. Three setting auger timer. No over fire sensor. No vaccum switch. Pain to clean. No fire sensor. 1983
Today a stove can be had that can control everything but cleaning out the ash bin. I screwd up and forgot to empty the bin after 6 weeks and the stove shut down unable to eject another ash puck. That stove was manufactured in 2006.

LuvMyPellets said:

My closest dealer offered 20% off for every Harman for 2 weeks in October.

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Rumor has it that Harman is developing an entire new mother board with "DIGITAL" controls and probably many new other features. If that is the case Harman dealers don't want to get stuck trying to get rid of the current Harman stoves with analog dials.

I don't know if that was the case in October of last year. Board sure could use some upgrading of components, maybe a cheaper DDM or data cable for computer analyzer like the Bixby. I would be in for the new board with that option and auto shutdown when linked to UPS.

How many and what type of changes are we likely to see if the new emissions regulations go through?

I can see an app on your phone making any changes from home or away. Meter telling you your level of pellets in the hopper. Auto start and stop time. Indicator telling you how full is your ash pan. Clean me soon, clean me now indicator. All from your phone. Efficiency indication. Monitor pellet use tied with outdoor wind and weather temps. Monitors forecast to show you anticipated use of pellets. Tracks your supply and let's you know when, where and how much it will cost. Auto place delivery of 1 ton or schedule for pickup. I think that is all for my list.

They could definitely be more efficient. The motto it doesn't cost as much as oil sure holds still.

TonyVideo said:

I can see an app on your phone making any changes from home or away. Meter telling you your level of pellets in the hopper. Auto start and stop time. Indicator telling you how full is your ash pan. Clean me soon, clean me now indicator. All from your phone. Efficiency indication. Monitor pellet use tied with outdoor wind and weather temps. Monitors forecast to show you anticipated use of pellets. Tracks your supply and let's you know when, where and how much it will cost. Auto place delivery of 1 ton or schedule for pickup. I think that is all for my list.

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They've done it with the boilers:
http://stokercloud.dk/dev/showmain.php?mac=diesel

It cleans itself for the most part... turbulators reciprocate to drop ash, compressed air cleans the burn pot. It will email me if there is a problem and I can log in from my phone to manipulate it fully. I fill my 1200# bag of pellets and don't touch it for 2-4 weeks. When the bag is almost out I empty the 1/2 full ash pan and refill with pellets.

They really should be getting more of this on the stoves. My Kedel was less expensive than the Harmon pb105 and it was WAY behind on the technology front, albeit it is a nice boiler that will provide cheap comfort.

Making these too high tech scares a bit, my decision for opting for a P61A instead of the Lopi AGP was based on the fact it has 1 less motor. How about the return on investment? some of these euro stoves are awfully expensive!

canuck_22 said:

Making these too high tech scares a bit, my decision for opting for a P61A instead of the Lopi AGP was based on the fact it has 1 less motor. How about the return on investment? some of these euro stoves are awfully expensive!

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I can remember saying the same thing when cars started to get computers. My current car has been in the shop once for repair (computer) 125k miles. Tells you when to change oil too. Never had a better ride or gas milage. But for a bad ignition switch that has been stopping cars in the worst of places been a good car (GM recall) Just wont be the first in line. Let someone else be the lab rat in getting the bugs out. Anybody remember how many problems Ford had when they went to Powerstroke diesel?

UpStateNY said:

Rumor has it that Harman is developing an entire new mother board with "DIGITAL" controls and probably many new other features. .

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Oh boy I can see it now that will add another $1,000 to an already over priced stove.

To me, there are two advances that MOST stove manufacturers need to make to move into the 21st century.

First, the continued use of smooth round tubes as heat transfer devices is an indication that they are still in the 'stone age'. That technology, if you want to call it that, has been around since the 50's when I had such tubes in my wood fireplace onto which I built my fire. Today, with the extruded aluminum shapes of every possible design, it would be dirt simple to have fins INSIDE as well as outside to present much greater surface areas for heat transfer. The question of cleaning those fins, of course, comes up but again let's move into this century and have flexible silicone wipers wrapped ENTIRELY around the tubes that move back and forth either by hand or periodically by a motor. This would greatly increase the efficiency where it is most lacking.

The second advance goes against the KISS principle but with us using every imaginable electronic device in our lives, why is it so hard to imagine embracing newer advances in electronics in our stoves? Would it not be nice to look at a malfunctioning stove's LED screen and see that your vacuum switch is not being pulled in? Then read how much vacuum you have, how much flow you have going out the exhaust, and if your snap disks are working? How about reading your hopper level, how often you are dumping pellets, is your igniter working, when did you last clean your burn pot or dump it, empty your ash pan, or your rpm's of your blowers? Sure, these are 'nice to know' items but it sure would make life and troubleshooting easier WHEN, not IF, something goes wrong. All of these things could be incorporated into the stove as well as controlling the stove for little more than what we pay now for a grossly over priced caveman controller made in China by some kid in a cardboard box in an alley in Shanghai. We can merrily play with our IPhones, tablets, and wrist mounted GPS/exercise monitors but we can't envision the technology in something worthwhile like keeping us warm cheaply? Makes no sense.

daman said:

Oh boy I can see it now that will add another $1,000 to an already over priced stove.

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Why buy new when slightly used will do? Pellet stoves are as bad a new cars for depreciation. But if you computed in the savings over propain this season?! I figured at least a savings of $1500 this still cold season. Woke up to a outside temp of 12 degrees and that's 20 below average.

How about something that automatically closes stopping the entry of cold air entering the stove from the oak and the exhaust when the stove is off. This will need to open automatically when the stove is started.

Exactly the reason I leave mine in maintenance mode.

I have an older car, mid 60's, that I can fix anything that goes wrong with it. It is pretty, but the seats have one manual adjustment, from uncomfortable to slightly less uncomfortable. The radio is AM only.

I have a newer car with all sorts of electronic controls and gadgets. It's very comfortable to drive, even the seats move around at the touch of a button. I can adjust the passenger mirror without moving but a finger. I know the gas cap is ajar by glancing at the dashboard. I can't seem to find the issue causing the O2 warning though. And it isn't the sensor.

Guess which car I enjoy more.

Go ahead and develop new stove technologies, better burn systems etc. Just don't add useless gadgets for the sake of gadgets...

I'd like to see a lambda probe so that the stove can automatically adjust air being fed to the burn pot. That would be my #1 improvement. That can't be that expensive.

#2 would be just better information on the stove's performance. Actually, just tie it into an app on my smartphone so I can check the stove's performance. Make it optional, by adding a daughter card to your main board, so that those who want this info can get it, and those that don't, don't have to pay for it.

Basically, add some of the features of the automated pellet boilers to the stoves. Just like DZL damon's post. I love that his Kedel gives you all the specs on his boiler right from the internet, and that the Kedel techs can see your stove's performance from wherever, Denmark? and make an adjustment. Why don't some of these automatic pellet boiler mfrs like Kedel, Biowin, Okefens and others make stoves with these features? Okay, I think maybe Biowin does already. A Firewin. I wonder how much those are? $5k? Marc? You can automate pellet loading from a bin with a vacuum system like the boilers. The ash is compacted for 2 to 3 month emptying. Can auto clean. Can tie into hydronics.

http://www.windhager.com/int_en/products/pellets/firewin-1/

If I wanted simplicity, I'd get a wood stove.

All the heating appliances create excess heat out the exhaust. Someone needs to develop and incorperate an astetically pleasing sterling engine into
the chimney pipe. Then the wasted heat could be turned into power to run the stove or used for whatever. I no it's far fetched. And way beyond my brain power. But for the life of me I cannot think of a reason why not to.....

dave2112 said:

All the heating appliances create excess heat out the exhaust. Someone needs to develop and incorperate an astetically pleasing sterling engine into
the chimney pipe. Then the wasted heat could be turned into power to run the stove or used for whatever. I no it's far fetched. And way beyond my brain power. But for the life of me I cannot think of a reason why not to.....

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Rika already did,was not economically feasable at the time.

I wanted the economy of wood without all the work and some of the convenience of gas. Buying fuel for $150 to $180 a ton and running the Harman or Bixby is getting most of my goals.