NYLETHERM-1 Heat Pump Water Heaters

I have had folks use them both ways. Running it through another heat exchanger is do-able but most folks try to minimize the number of heat exchangers
in the loop.

huffdawg said:

I think you can do either Skyfire..

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yes sure, but what is the advantage of DHW through the storage in the off season?...maybe low consumption... in my house there is no such thing as low DHW consumption.

We have people heating large tanks, which, of course, allows you a lot of capacity. IF, the standby loss is reasonable, it can be done efficiently. You then have a lot of
DHW.
The heat pump only delivers 6-7k btus/hr, and with a well insulated tank, just replenishes the DHW usage and (hopefully) modest standby loss daily.

tom in maine said:

We have people heating large tanks, which, of course, allows you a lot of capacity. IF, the standby loss is reasonable, it can be done efficiently. You then have a lot of
DHW.
The heat pump only delivers 6-7k btus/hr, and with a well insulated tank, just replenishes the DHW usage and (hopefully) modest standby loss daily.

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Tom Just curious about the cooling output of one of these units. I'm brainstorming a bit farther. If I used a couple of these units to heat my Garn Storage in the basement and added a duct to pull the warm air from the upstairs (in the summer only) and ducted the cool air back to the upstairs. I'm wondering if I can eliminate the 15k btu air conditioner I run in the summer??

skfire said:

confused I am....so the HP returns from and supplies to your storage?
Why not directly to the indirect DHW...? I am sure I am missing something here...

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Pretty simple. I keep my 820 gallons of storage up to temp which gives me a very large reserve. I could pipe it in to my indirect but then I would only be keeping 30 gallons of water ready to go. Once that 30 gallons is depleted (a couple of back to back showers for example) the heat has to come from somewhere (oil in my case).

The heat pump is only 6500 BTUs, it's not on demand by any means. It will only add a handful of degrees over the input temp.

K

If your storage or your Garn are in the basement you'll need a hell of a lot of insulation on it in order to not keep re-circulating the warmer air coming from the heat loss of your tank. That extra heat is really noticeable in the summer when you're trying to air condition the living space. I have 4 inches of foam on my storage tank and the heat loss filters upstairs enough so I need to run my mini splits more days during the summer.

What I did was just heat my Superstore with the Geyser and blow the basement air up to the living space when the basement air dropped to about 62. This greatly reduced the operating time of my mini splits over the summer.

huffdawg said:

Kopeck..What temp do you get your 850 gal tank up to? 130? Then what temp can you get your indirect tank up to?

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128f. I didn't choose 128 specifically, the aquastat I used was kind of "set and see" so I was happy when that's where it kicked off.

My indirect is set for 120f and it will get the water up there. What I've found though is due to the low temps coming form the storage tank that 120 doesn't last really long. I haven't measured it but my guess is after the initial burst of 120f water, which is more the enough for most applications I get s sustained 110f or so. Still not shabby, no one in the house complains. I tend to take showers a bit on the hotter side and I have zero complaints.

That is one reason I think an exchanger in my tank might be a bit more efficient but in reality my setup does what it's suppose to.

K

Fred61 said:

If your storage or your Garn are in the basement you'll need a hell of a lot of insulation on it in order to not keep re-circulating the warmer air coming from the heat loss of your tank. That extra heat is really noticeable in the summer when you're trying to air condition the living space. I have 4 inches of foam on my storage tank and the heat loss filters upstairs enough so I need to run my mini splits more days during the summer.

What I did was just heat my Superstore with the Geyser and blow the basement air up to the living space when the basement air dropped to about 62. This greatly reduced the operating time of my mini splits over the summer.

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That is why I am debating running the HP directly to my Buderus ST-200 indirect unit and not through my tanks...also I really prefer making up my DHW(up to 115-120f) with 145f-150f in the indirect. So the HP will get me partly there and then the LP burner will top off.

Scott

You could also plumb it so it doesn't use either the indirect coil, or storage - you could T off your fresh water inlet & hot outlets to facilitate circulation. Same as you would hook it up to an electric DWH tank. If one way was easier than the other. Or maybe you're not talking using the indirect coil...

skfire said:

So the HP will get me partly there and then the LP burner will top off.

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How would you control that? Would you install a "make on rise" aquastat when the water reaches 120 or so and let the LP take it from there?

Tom, if you're listening, you can set me straight. I installed my Geyser as per instructions and it served me well last summer regardless of the fact that I have become accustomed to hotter DHW from my boiler over the winter but I'm wondering if there is a flaw in the instructions.

The Geyser must pump several passes across it's coils in order to bring the temperature up to desired levels mostly 125 or so. With the current set-up I pump water from the bottom of the tank, through the Geyser and back to the bottom of the tank through the dip tube. I believe that with that set-up only the lower part of the tank gets mixed and therefore satisfies the temperature control before the heat has stratified to the top where I am drawing from. I know stratification always works but we are starting out with such a low temperature on the bottom(125) the top may be colder. This problem could be diminished if the sensor was in the center like the aquastat for the oil.

The question I have is: Why not plumb the hot return from the Geyser to the hot output of the Superstore and keep the cold coming from the bottom like a side arm? You would then be less dependent on stratification.

Fred61 said:

How would you control that? Would you install a "make on rise" aquastat when the water reaches 120 or so and let the LP take it from there?

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Yes, same way I switch from storage to LP for make up of DHW.

SK

maple1 said:

You could also plumb it so it doesn't use either the indirect coil, or storage - you could T off your fresh water inlet & hot outlets to facilitate circulation. Same as you would hook it up to an electric DWH tank. If one way was easier than the other. Or maybe you're not talking using the indirect coil...

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yes, but will not get hot enough...I like to get 115 from at least 145...I mix down.....kill everything....

I had thought about a HPWH replacement for my propane fired unit, but the cost/ROI had turned me off till the propane unit gave up the ghost.
I like the idea of being able to seperate the tank from the guts. That way each part is only replaced when necessary. In addition to being able to fire up the unit on propane when we have a ton of additional people in the house to get faster recovery (holidays).

Ran the numbers and it looks like assuming propane is 2/gal and electric @ 10/KWH , payback is about a year.
Given this ROI why are more people not jumping on this? Hook up looks very easy with less than $50 (guess?) in additional plumbing parts.

Has anyone installed one of the ebay Nyletherm1's on a propane fired HWH? Were you pleased with the results?

Also...who is Tom in Maine? I've seen him mentioned a number of times. Is he the one selling them on ebay? What is his hearth name so I shoot him a note if this looks like a go.

ian105 said:

I had thought about a HPWH replacement for my propane fired unit, but the cost/ROI had turned me off till the propane unit gave up the ghost.
I like the idea of being able to seperate the tank from the guts. That way each part is only replaced when necessary. In addition to being able to fire up the unit on propane when we have a ton of additional people in the house to get faster recovery (holidays).

Ran the numbers and it looks like assuming propane is 2/gal and electric @ 10/KWH , payback is about a year.
Given this ROI why are more people not jumping on this? Hook up looks very easy with less than $50 (guess?) in additional plumbing parts.

Has anyone installed one of the ebay Nyletherm1's on a propane fired HWH? Were you pleased with the results?

Also...who is Tom in Maine? I've seen him mentioned a number of times. Is he the one selling them on ebay? What is his hearth name so I shoot him a note if this looks like a go.

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That is his Hearth name.

And why not? Honest ignorance, I'd guess.

Wow. Propane up here is ad high as 4.10 a gal. Low maybe 3.75. Electric is about .15 kWh. Due for an increase soon.

Tom in Maine is his user name here. He should check in soon.

Hey, here I am!
You can call me at 888-866-8970 or use the above email. Email is better.
Thanks,
Tom