NC educators leaving the state

Seasoned Oak said:

I do think its a very honorable profession. Its the best gig around here,if you can get it. But at some point budget realities and the local economies must play a part in salaries. That is if they insist on making the local economies foot the bill.

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Professions aren't honorable or dishonorable. Individuals are.

Dana B said:

Professions aren't honorable or dishonorable. Individuals are.

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Good point.

North Carolina- 1st in flight, 47th in education.

I don't have kids in school, just bad jokes.

I think teachers are one of those professions, like attorneys or the police where a few bad apples that do some very bad or dumb things tend to color the entire profession in the minds of many. I'll often read some news story about something happening at a public school that sets me off and then I forget that there some very decent, caring individuals in the public school system. But when push comes to shove the notion that anyone other than my wife or I should have any significant input into how my children are raised is probably the worst possible button anyone could push with me. As I see it the public school system is more apt to exhibit disrespect toward and infringe upon parental rights than the private school system.

class sizes also come into play in quality of education.....I'm sure most of the private schools have more reasonable class sizes.

Warm_in_NH said:

Sorry the teachers in the story can't make ends meet, they're obviously living beyond their means. Happens to people in all walks of life who don't have a basic understanding of income vs. expenses. Will probably happen to them again.

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There is so much misinformation on this thread. I will start with this one. I am one of those teachers mentioned. I buy everything second hand except food and underwear. I drive a 10 year old truck and consider it new. I don't own cable, an expensive phone plan, clothes dryer, furnace, dishwasher, bathtub, or microwave. I grow a garden and have chickens and bees. I hand split scrounged wood. I spent my spring break learning how to re-wire my 100 year old house because that is the only way it's going to get done. Even then, I don't know how will afford the wire once I use up what I found at the pawn shop. I absolutely live beyond my means. I would like you to tell me where else I can cut so that I can live below my means. I tried to increase my salary by completing my ninth year of college, but that didn't happen.

Edit :Ms krabapple. What is the salary for a NC teacher if you dont mind my asking? Im sure its more than mine and i have all those things you mentioned except TV Cable.
EDIT: Average NC teacher salary is $45,700 . Way more than mine.

begreen said:

That seems kind of personal. There are a lot of other factors than salary involved. Mortgage size, property taxes, education debt, single mom, savings for college are some variables.

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Salaries are not determined by ones debts or bills.

Mrs. Krabappel said:

I tried to increase my salary by completing my ninth year of college, but that didn't happen.

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With that kind of education you could be a doctor. Or at least the school principal. Edit: $45k is about what the avg salary around here and every teacher i know is doing quite well on it.
Moving to a better paying district is an option but not one without other risks.

Best regards Ms K to whatever you decide. 9 years is an impressive resume.

Mrs. K, I read the article and saw no mention of numbers or percentages. I figure if they took a job and built a life around their salary, they should be able to maintain at the very least, if you then added several more paying jobs between the two of them, it leads me to believe that they increased expenses beyond their income and are trying to catch up. With an article that mentions no numbers, percentages, etc... one can only draw their own conclusions.

I in no way meant any disrespect towards teachers, nor do I feel that they don't deserve to be fairly compensated for their work. I have no intention of arguing this point with you as I'm a contractor in NH and you're a teacher in NC.

My views are based on what I see in NH and what I read in the article. One friend is a high school teacher and a coach here, he dries a $50,000 truck, new snow machine, newer Harley, and two scooters, has a nice house, and his wife works part time. My other buddy makes $87,000/yr. as a college professor, plus all his benefits, plus his extra pay for "workshops", plus his sabbatical that allowed him to travel the world (again), and he is constantly complaining that he's on the short end of the stick. That's what I'm tired of hearing.

I apologize that I wrongly applied my knowledge of my region and the opinions that were formed from my experiences to a situation that you appear to be living first hand. I wish you the best of luck (sincerely), I've lived on the edge, I know it's no fun.

Warm_in_NH said:

One friend is a high school teacher and a coach here, he dries a $50,000 truck, new snow machine, newer Harley, and two scooters, has a nice house, and his wife works part time. My other buddy makes $87,000/yr. as a college professor, plus all his benefits, plus his extra pay for "workshops", plus his sabbatical that allowed him to travel the world (again), and he is constantly complaining that he's on the short end of the stick.

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One thing for sure is having a college degree in any profession does not always equate into a good financial manager. I have friends who make as much as 160K a year. And they are always broke.

When you read about average salaries, that number includes everyone's salary like the superintendent who makes quadruple that and all the other well paid downtown folk. That salary is much bigger than mine. Much bigger even than my friend who has taught for 25 years. But thank you for your kindness and concern.

Mrs. Krabappel said:

When you read about average salaries, that number includes everyone's salary like the superintendent who makes quadruple that and all the other well paid downtown folk. That salary is much bigger than mine. Much bigger even than my friend who has taught for 25 years. But thank you for your kindness and concern.

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If thats the case, then it seems you are quite underpaid. A science teacher with your education level could command a much higher pay in a great number of areas. Possibly not anywhere in NC unfortunately. Come on up to PA, we would be glad to have you.
P.S. My daughter is currently planning a teaching career. But i would probably have to win a seat on the school board to get her in the local school.

Yes I have only personalized this thread because there are so many personal and incorrect assertions towards teachers and the OP was written about NC. In a handful of regions people are paid what they are worth. Not here. My assistant principal, who makes $15k more than I, Has a wife who cuts hair and makes substantially more than he does. In fact my mechanic drives a nice truck and makes a good living but I have yet to see him criticized for that, even when he raises rates. My own father, who barely finished 8th grade, makes 250k between his DOD pension and his DOD contract work. Nobody has ever questioned his salary, work ethic, or ability to live within his means .

Seems you picked the worst state to work in at your chosen profession Mrs k. Theres probably about 49 better options.

Mrs. Krabappel said:

Yes I have only personalized this thread because there are so many personal and incorrect assertions towards teachers and the OP was written about NC. In a handful of regions people are paid what they are worth. Not here. My assistant principal, who makes $15k more than I, Has a wife who cuts hair and makes substantially more than he does. In fact my mechanic drives a nice truck and makes a good living but I have yet to see him criticized for that, even when he raises rates. My own father, who barely finished 8th grade, makes 250k between hid DOD pension and his DOD contract work. Nobody has ever questioned his salary, work ethic, or ability to live within his means .

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I think there are a few reasons why teachers may singled out for criticism.

1. You deal with people's kids and sometimes there are contentious issues that arise. It's a very senstive subject dealing with others' children.

2. You salary is paid for in part by tax revenue. This makes some more inclined to criticize you than a mechanic whose salary is paid for by his customers who've chosen to go to his shop.

3. It's a demonstrable fact that our public education system is in a sorry state of affairs compared to other westernized nations. Our students consistently rank well below many other nations. Whether or not is their fault in total or in part teachers are a logical target when seeking to place blame for this phenomenon.

4. Many feel that the teachers who do complain about money yet talk about their passion for the job and love of the kids should shut up and continue teaching or do something else.

I would never criticize anyone for driving a nice truck. But I'll tell ya I don't want to hear your hardship story in one ear while you're rambling off about your new obnoxious ride in my other ear. I also don't want to hear you're short changed as an educator while you're being paid very well and own a very nice home in NH and three others in FL. Certain professions seem to come with a sense of entitlement that I guess I'll never understand.

Most contractors in my area, myself included, haven't been able to raise our rates in several years, the market hasn't supported it, many fellow business owners have gone under and lost everything, sad.

Jags said:

I am sure for several different reasons that it can't happen, but I have wished for a few years now that Mrs. K would give a truncated version of the trouble/solution that the fine folks in the trenches would like to see implemented.
If you have a problem with your car you ask your mechanic.
If we are have problems with education/students - ASK A TEACHER.

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Jags, I appreciate this sentiment. Certainly teachers are frustrated daily when decisions are made by either folks who have spent no time in the classroom, or by folks who have done poorly in the classroom so they are promoted to administrative roles. I have many ~subversive~ ideas about education and they include more body movement, more integration of subjects, more relationships with industry, more access to pertinent equipment, and less testing.

Dana B said:

The side that sticks up for the teachers screams when anyone makes blanket statements criticizing all teachers.

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You have some kind of personal issues here so I’m going to suggest you go get a beer or take a hot bath. Reading my replies won’t help, so I’m not writing them for you. I’m clarifying for others who might buy your slanted hyperbole. I do suggest you visit a local school and spend some time in a classroom so you can make some more realistic observations. At this job, it is impossible to “go through the motions” when you deal with upwards of 200 people and make thousands to millions of personal interactions every day.

Poor teachers can and do get fired. The protection that teachers get is only to provide them with due process. In other words, you cannot fire someone just because you want to hire a cheaper newer teacher. You have to show cause. Merit pay is idealistic, but difficult to qualify. How do you compare the biology teacher to the media specialist? How do you compare the Speech pathologist to the math teacher? Additionally, how do your account for the teachers in the low income areas whose kids score poorly. I have taught in inner city Los Angeles. I have taught at more affluent schools. Same teacher. Same subject. Far different scores. In the end, testing companies are making buckets of money with the same tax dollars you abhor putting towards a teacher salary.

Schools don’t label kids with ADHD. Ever. This comes from an outside doctor referral.

My kids spend far, far more time listening to the political views of their peers (and therefore- peers parents) than they ever hear about mine. This is true across the board, though there are certainly exceptions.

The vast majority of parents send kids to their neighborhood school, even when there is a choice. The statistics do not support your assertion that if parents can, they place their kids in a different school. If It’s one of the reason free charter schools become more like a private school. But that’s a topic for another day.

Many of my students drive their own brand new cars past the private school every day on their way to my public school. I've talked to many parents who are very pleased with the switch from private school. I would venture to say that, with a few exceptions, parents have been pleased with the teachers and the schools at which I’ve worked. Heck, I learn and grow every single day when surrounded by the thinkers and doers that I work with. The private schools do have the advantage of smaller numbers and families who value education. They don’t waste time with kids who have special needs or behavior issues. I went to a little catholic school and, well, that’s a story for another time.

It’s true that NC has lower property taxes than other areas. Most other costs-to-live are about the same.

It’s disingenuous to assert that the economy has not impacted teachers. If you have been paying any attention at all, you might have noticed that cuts have changed the climate of education in the last five years.

US schools are not failing. https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/97oct/fail.htm