NC educators leaving the state

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Seems you picked the worst state to work in at your chosen profession Mrs k. Theres probably about 49 better options.

When I moved here from Hawaii we were about halfway in teacher pay. As mentioned in the article, this has changed drastically. Many teachers I worked with now drive over the border to South Carolina (!), Tennessee, or Georgia for a 10,000 raise. It's sad that a link to the article outlining the unconstitutional steps our general assembly has made has just provided folks an opportunity to pile on whiny, overpaid, underworked teachers.

As BeGreen Mentioned, I'm working on other options. I have decided to stay put for a bit, but will be joining the mass teacher exodus once I finish my master's degree in biology.
 
Your corner of NC is God's country. It is a beautiful and special location. Too bad that politics is screwing with a good life decision.
 
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Yes we have built a good life here, and my son has gotten a first class education by hard working, caring, effective teachers :)
 
I taught high school Biology in IL for 7 years. I loved teaching but saw I was going to go nowhere. So I moved on. Sad that our teachers are not more secure. They are so important.
 
Jags, I appreciate this sentiment. Certainly teachers are frustrated daily when decisions are made by either folks who have spent no time in the classroom, or by folks who have done poorly in the classroom so they are promoted to administrative roles. I have many ~subversive~ ideas about education and they include more body movement, more integration of subjects, more relationships with industry, more access to pertinent equipment, and less testing.

You have some kind of personal issues here so I’m going to suggest you go get a beer or take a hot bath. Reading my replies won’t help, so I’m not writing them for you. I’m clarifying for others who might buy your slanted hyperbole. I do suggest you visit a local school and spend some time in a classroom so you can make some more realistic observations. At this job, it is impossible to “go through the motions” when you deal with upwards of 200 people and make thousands to millions of personal interactions every day.

Poor teachers can and do get fired. The protection that teachers get is only to provide them with due process. In other words, you cannot fire someone just because you want to hire a cheaper newer teacher. You have to show cause. Merit pay is idealistic, but difficult to qualify. How do you compare the biology teacher to the media specialist? How do you compare the Speech pathologist to the math teacher? Additionally, how do your account for the teachers in the low income areas whose kids score poorly. I have taught in inner city Los Angeles. I have taught at more affluent schools. Same teacher. Same subject. Far different scores. In the end, testing companies are making buckets of money with the same tax dollars you abhor putting towards a teacher salary.

Schools don’t label kids with ADHD. Ever. This comes from an outside doctor referral.

My kids spend far, far more time listening to the political views of their peers (and therefore- peers parents) than they ever hear about mine. This is true across the board, though there are certainly exceptions.

The vast majority of parents send kids to their neighborhood school, even when there is a choice. The statistics do not support your assertion that if parents can, they place their kids in a different school. If It’s one of the reason free charter schools become more like a private school. But that’s a topic for another day.

Many of my students drive their own brand new cars past the private school every day on their way to my public school. I've talked to many parents who are very pleased with the switch from private school. I would venture to say that, with a few exceptions, parents have been pleased with the teachers and the schools at which I’ve worked. Heck, I learn and grow every single day when surrounded by the thinkers and doers that I work with. The private schools do have the advantage of smaller numbers and families who value education. They don’t waste time with kids who have special needs or behavior issues. I went to a little catholic school and, well, that’s a story for another time.

It’s true that NC has lower property taxes than other areas. Most other costs-to-live are about the same.

It’s disingenuous to assert that the economy has not impacted teachers. If you have been paying any attention at all, you might have noticed that cuts have changed the climate of education in the last five years.

US schools are not failing. https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/97oct/fail.htm


You pretty much offered up the the company line on every issue regarding teachers and the public school system so I won't respond to any of your responses to what you've deemed my "slanted hyperbole" save one. That one being your assertion that schools don't label kids with ADHD.

Being a teacher I'm sure that you're familiar with Teenscreen? For those other posters and readers that may not have heard of Teenscreen it is a now defunct suicide and depression screening program that was devised by David Schafer, a Columbia University psychiatrist with strong financial ties to pharmaceutical companies (he was on their payrolls). The program consisted of a questionaire that was a frequently administered to teenagers by public high schools without parental consent or even notification. The questionaire was a very basic and generalized series of questions and more often than not indicated that the teen was suffering from depression or was even suicidal.

Here is a link to the story of Aliah Gleason and the horror she went through thanks to taking the Teenscreen survey.

If you really want to get into it I'd be more than happy to explore the truth of the matter with you regarding my so called slanted hyperbole and your boilerplate teachers' woe is us talking points.
 
Dana, it wasn't the school or the teachers, from the article
" Bush Administration's 'New Freedom Initiative' - a program designed to subject every school age child in this country to psychological testing." Wow- what a rotten program. Big Pharma lobbyists at their finest... As to ADHD diagnosis and Ritalin prescription, that's from a Psychiatrist not a teacher.

Mrs. K, glad to hear you are still working on the Master's - even though NC doesn't recognize the extra work and money that goes into that effort.:(

For those that haven't looked further, NC wages for teachers are 46th in the nation. No monetary benefit to getting a Master's degree in NC. One teacher, who has a master's degree and received the teacher of the year award, still lives in her parent's basement after 3 years of teaching in NC. She's paying back her student loans ... What's the going rate for 6 years of university? (Sorry no links about this teacher, website was down for maintenance)

If you had a Bachelor's degree, what would you expect for your starting salary? If you had a Master's, would you expect some additional pay? I know I would - at least so I could recoup the extra money spent.

I recall reading that NC has a voucher system for private schools, supports charter schools. Dollars that would go into public school education are getting shifted away to other options.

Edit: The $$s by state - total, per student, average teacher salary. Interesting comparison of $ per student by state... page 85 http://www.nea.org/assets/img/content/NEA_Rankings_And_Estimates-2013_(2).pdf
 
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Teacher pay by the numbers:

  • Under the current state base pay scale, it would take a teacher 16 years to reach a $40,000 salary.
  • North Carolina school teachers have only seen one one raise since 2008, which was 1.2 percent.
  • Governor Pat McCrory and legislative leaders recently pledged to raise salaries for teachers early in their careers to $35,000.
http://wunc.org/post/16-years-reach-40000-salary-considering-pay-incentives-nc-teachers
 
A large study by the Ed Dept in 2006 showed that test scores of (non-parochial) private school students and public school students, as a group, were within the noise of each other. Parochial schools as a group showed lower scores.
Two differences:
--the public school cannot turn anyone away....private schools can and do throw out weaker students to improve their metrics. With the above, this suggests public schools are doing a better job.
--Public schools don't advertise. Private schools do. That alone will make most folks 'know' they must be better. Add in the confirmation bias associated with shelling out big $ for tuition, and now you have an army of advocates.

Bottom line: the best public schools are as good or better than the best private schools.
 
The economy has not been nearly as kind to my profession and others in Pa. possibly with the exception of teachers and more so school administrators. If not for the fact that i have become debt free, i would be hurting badly. Some of my friends in the business have gone under. Seems all the bad decisions made by local, state and fed govts have been piled onto RE owners in the form of yearly tax increases,sewer fees and inspection & permit charges. Mostly i just collect money from ever poorer tenants and home purchasers, just to pass it on to local taxing bodies, sewer plants, and code inspectors. The share i get to keep gets smaller and smaller while expenses go up and up. Fact is all states are NOT equal. Mrs k has a right to complain about her low salary. Pa teachers , not so much.
 
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A large study by the Ed Dept in 2006 showed that test scores of (non-parochial) private school students and public school students, as a group, were within the noise of each other. Parochial schools as a group showed lower scores.
Two differences:
--the public school cannot turn anyone away....private schools can and do throw out weaker students to improve their metrics. With the above, this suggests public schools are doing a better job.
--Public schools don't advertise. Private schools do. That alone will make most folks 'know' they must be better. Add in the confirmation bias associated with shelling out big $ for tuition, and now you have an army of advocates.

Bottom line: the best public schools are as good or better than the best private schools.


The government run Dept. of Education conducted a study that showed government run public schools are better than private parochial schools? Why is that not surprising? I guess all the parents out there that are spending tens of thousands of dollars each year so that their kids may go to private schools rather than public schools are ignorant fools just wasting their money.
 
Private school teachers around here make a small fraction of those in public school. In fact that where many with a teaching degree wind up if they dont happen to have a relative on the school board and dont want to leave the area.
You can say the same thing about cops and fireman. Investment bankers too.

My wife had to fight off 3 other candidates for her job as an art teacher. All three were daughters of teachers/administrators, upset because they were "promised" the job. It got nasty when they started slandering my wife, saying she wasn't qualified as an alt( unimportant jargon) "too voluptuous" (my favorite!) to teach young boys and 1/2 dozen other BS reasons. They dug through 4 years of paperwork trying to find something before she found out and threatened to complain.

The final straw was an email from a "concerned" parent that came from one of the moms home email. It was dropped after that.
 
All three were daughters of teachers/administrators, upset because they were "promised" the job. .
Its a safe bet in this town an "outsider" doesnt have a chance against relatives of board members. Im not sure why retired teachers and teacher spouses are even legally allowed on school boards, as its a clear conflict of interest IMHO.
 
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The government run Dept. of Education conducted a study that showed government run public schools are better than private parochial schools? Why is that not surprising? I guess all the parents out there that are spending tens of thousands of dollars each year so that their kids may go to private schools rather than public schools are ignorant fools just wasting their money.

Exactly. Imagine if they poured those resources into their local public schools....

The Ed study was commissioned by the previous administration and 'buried' when the findings came in the way they did.
 
Its a safe bet in this town an "outsider" doesnt have a chance against relatives of board members. Im not sure why retired teachers and teacher spouses are even legally allowed on school boards, as its a clear conflict of interest IMHO.
Those are the breaks. A lot of nepotism is just people looking out for their own. Its the glue that holds small towns towns together.

As a country we spend 1/2 trillion dollars every year on k-12 education. Its a huge market now but just wait till they corporatize it. All you have to do is look to the numbers of for-profit colleges to see how it will turn out, or for-profit health care before it.
 
K, you really need to move to another state. There are many districts that have a lower cost of living. By no means should you throw away or disregard your nine years for a career change. Sounds like the quality of life would be a concern, NC isn't the only place where it's safe to raise a child (young man). Do you still like teaching?...then stick with it-just not the location where you are now.
 
Yes I am working on a different direction. I will be fine. I am but one story though. The entire point of the thread and the article is to highlight recent changes in education that are designed to line the pockets of wealthy individuals with your tax dollars, while students are underserved and teachers are underpaid. NC is not in a vacuum. This is a national trend. We have just fast tracked it here. No matter what side of the political stick you fall, this cannot be okay for if you are a taxpayer, particularly if you have children or grandchildren.

It's sad that a thread started to discuss these important issues quickly deteriorated into maligning teachers for being money grubbing, crappy at their jobs, and poor handlers of money!!! Of course whenever I bring up my own story, these things never apply to me. Just these other elusive terrible and greedy teachers. The ones we are so focused on that we are going to miss our pockets getting picked.
 
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WIth all due respect Mrs k there are teachers who are money grubbing,crappy at their jobs,and poor handlers of money,same as every other profession. My point is that all states (and teachers)are not equal. I dont have a problem with teachers in my area getting the 2nd highest salaries in the country. Now the slew of 6 figure administrators and asst. administrators is another story. Thats where the fat is around here.
PS Any teacher who burns wood for heat gets my vote.
 
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SO, are they the exception rather than the rule?
 
SO, are they the exception rather than the rule?
NC seems to be the exception when it come to salaries and raises. I suppose the school boards there dont operate there the same way they do here. For the record i dont think any teacher should make less than 50k a year except as a starting salary.certainly not after 20-25yrs.
 
If we're going to move education towards a private model, I suggest we look to the NFL. We could have a kindergarten draft, where the lowest scoring schools from last year get to pick their students this year using a myriad of determining factors such as testing, attitude and an interview with the parents. I give you my Joe Namath guarantee my wife could pick a winning team from the combine results (sit down, don' t bite, bring a lunch and a pencil etc, put your jacket on, did you bring a jacket?).

The child would get a 1yr contract, after which they would either receive scholarship (good test scores, because my wife's salary is performance-based) or have to pay for school. The worse they do the more it costs, so maybe parents would pay attention. The best franchises would make the most money, but there would be a certain amount of revenue sharing among the league. Sure, they're would be casualties (special education, ESL, Art and Music ) but freedom is messy, and this is about giving America a choice.

When was the last time the taxpayers had to give money to the NFL?

CB-stadium-cc-565x376.jpg


FYI: the NFL hasn't payed taxes since 1966.
 
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NC seems to be the exception when it come to salaries and raises. I suppose the school boards there dont operate there the same way they do here. For the record i dont think any teacher should make less than 50k a year except as a starting salary.certainly not after 20-25yrs.
The school system I work for, teachers start at about 50k, and some at certain levels are closer to the 100k mark.....Administrators from Principals on up are from 125k upwards to 250k (superintendent)
 
Your corner of NC is God's country. It is a beautiful and special location

most definately , i live in the same chain of mountains up in Virginia, actually the spouse and i are planning to run down the parkway towards the NC end tomorrow making a weekend of it.
 
Education is very much the epitome of an issue which has no clear cut "blanket" solution. teachers are in some ways (and please you teachers dont take this the wrong way) teachers are similar in this manner to assembly line workers , they are producing a product from raw materials. now part of te quality of the finished product depends on the skill of the workers (the teachers) another facet which matters just as much is the "raw materials" the students. imagine having to produce 500 individual products of the same design and quality using completely different parts and pieces to do so. its pretty darned tough to make that happen IMHO.

in essence the kids are not clones, they are all different, yet the standards they are expected to be taught to and the methods of doing so are becoming increasingly standardized. imagine having a job where you have 10 different bolts to tighten and each are a different size yet the boss only gives you one wrench to do the job.not too effective right , so , now the "wrench turner" faces a dillemma "do i only tighten the one bolt my wrench fits? or do i go buy a set of wrenches to ensure i can tighten them all? " when the wrench set is not provided by the boss it becomes a problem, especially when that wrench set costs more than the wrench turner can easily afford.

wasnt really planning to weigh into this one , but here i am, my opinion is that we should not be attacking teachers for the shortcomings of the "tool set" they are provided. and certainly we should not be accusing them of greed when the profession as a whole based on its immense importance to our society as a profession is woefully underpaid for the potential benefits to overall society they provide.

i cant imagine how lousy my lot in life would have been but for the people who educated me.
 
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