This decision is still subject to review/appeal. All of the other bids proposed natural gas and also located generating capacity at existing substation or generating plant locations.
http://www.startribune.com/business/238322571.html
Massive Solar Plan for Minnesota Wins Bid Over Natural Gas
- Thread starter jebatty
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
This decision is still subject to review/appeal. All of the other bids proposed natural gas and also located generating capacity at existing substation or generating plant locations.
http://www.startribune.com/business/238322571.html
Once they build that they won't be able to make a stink about homeowners powering the grid as I'd assume the issues faced would be the same if there is one large solar plant making X amount of power and 1000 small plants making the same amount of power. The only difference would be lack of control by a monopoly.
Wow, that is a large array. I'd like to skim through that review. It's interesting that it came out so competitive in spite of being daylight only. The long term maintenance costs should be substantially less.
Solar will rule the day, the paradigm is changing, and even big power knows that coal and ultimately NG will not be in the picture. Solar already is price competitive, and with very low maintenance costs, no air pollution issues to deal with, no cooling towers, no ash disposal, etc., it is clear that fossil fuel electricity is the dinosaur headed for extinction.
... and the project moves forward:
The article states that MN has more need for peak power, especially during the summer, and the combination of solar plus NG helps to assure that peak power needs will be better met even when the sun doesn't shine
Xcel also was directed to move forward on negotiating agreements for one or more natural gas burning generators. http://www.startribune.com/business/252724541.html
The article states that MN has more need for peak power, especially during the summer, and the combination of solar plus NG helps to assure that peak power needs will be better met even when the sun doesn't shine
DBoon
Minister of Fire
Natural gas turbines combined with solar arrays is a great combination to meet peak power needs. If it is a cloudy day with minimal solar production, the natural gas turbines can quickly meet grid demand, and not run when the solar output is high. If demand really peaks, then the natural gas turbines can be used in combination with the solar PV.
Dune
Minister of Fire
The problem I see with natural gas for electricity is it will raise the price of millions of heat bills in tis country. Other than that, I don't care. Solar on a roof has no transmission loss. Maybe some day, but for now , I still dont think they make sense. One other thing we need to consider. We have these radicals . The believe there is some Jihad out there and will surely try to blow up our power plants. With solar on everyones roof, that would be very hard to do. I believe we should be using solar to heat our houses by heating water before mking electricity.
Solar space heating is a waste of the rooftop solar resource. Solar heat collectors are at their least efficient in the winter, and the solar resource in at its worst then across most the midwest and east US. And then all that sun in the summer gets wasted. Better to go all PV, grid-tie, and get your HW and space heat from heat pumps. And then all summer the PV runs your appliances, and banks kWh for the winter.
Last edited:
DevilsBrew
Minister of Fire
- Apr 21, 2013
- 687
DevilsBrew
Minister of Fire
- Apr 21, 2013
- 687
Electric for heating this past season will come in at somewhat under 6000 kwh, or about btu equivalent to 1.5 cords of aspen, which is what I burn (= 1 cord of red oak). Early indicators are that I will bank enough $ credits to completely pay for next year's electric heat as well as most of general electric service, maybe all. And I also will be adding a small quantity of solar hot air which should be helpful in the Sept-Oct and Feb-April shoulder seasons. The goal is a net zero house for energy usage.
My experience with wind is that it's not about the windmill, it's all about the tower. Compared to a solar panel it's way too expensive for residential scale systems.. Utility scale is another matter
Solar is so cheap and easy these days for grid tied systems, I don't think wind makes sense fro a residential system
It depends on location. If you are in a windy location that doesn't have a lot of sun, say in the winter, then wind makes more sense. Think coastal Alaska for example.
DevilsBrew
Minister of Fire
- Apr 21, 2013
- 687
Here we get around 45% sunny days out of the year. For example, we went 3 days with rain and now it is totally overcast. Yeah, wind should be made a better option. I have also lived in the Midwest. The wind power possibilities...oh well.
I agree it depends on location, if there is no sun there is no solar power
For those of us not living in the land of the eternal night, residential scale wind is still an order of magnitude more difficult to make work than solar PV. I speak from personal experience. My error was tower height ( twice the height of local terrain features is not enough) ; that and bird strikes taking out the blades. Several gulls loss their life to my small windmill. So far no gull has committed birdie hari kari on my solar panels, at least not in a way that took out the panel. You really cannot appreciate the simplicity of a solar panel until you have tried to repair an unbalanced windmill in the gale winds of January. I suspect this exercise is a little tougher on coastal Alaska
Rough rule of thumb .. I know people, myself included, who generate multiple MWH per year using solar PV. The only guys I know who try to do the same with wind ( there are two in Vt) generate next to nothing and are buying generators
So my question to those who think wind is practical on a residential scale: do you really know anyone who has generated MWH+ per year, I mean personally, not some guy you read about in Home power. And, if you do, can you please describe the equipment they use
Last edited:
Minnesota, while on the northern fringe of continental US, ranks pretty good for solar insolation. There are a few areas in MN which rate satisfactory for wind, but not where I live. What I really like about solar PV is that it is hands free and vitually maintenance free.
Where2
Feeling the Heat
That's my experience. After 9.5 months of continuous PV generation, I haven't even had to wash my panels! I collected 153kWh in the last 7 days, and got a good downpour tonight which likely washed all the recent pollen off the panels again.
Wish I could say that. Our's get a thick pollen covering every spring, (so do our cars). I just scrubbed them last week. These are ground mounted and reaching the upper row of panels is a pita.
When a big doug fir drops its pollen it's like a fog. The quantities coming from a 100 ft tree are huge.
- Status
