Monitoring Electricity Use...

semipro said:

We gave our children an extra allowance every month to cover a quarter of our typical electrical bill. The rest of their allowance they earned with chores.

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I think this is a neat idea, but I don't see it working out in practicality. Our electric bill can go up/down by as much as $200/mo, depending on who's home, house guests, what project I'm working on (welders / machinery / shop heating), weather, etc. Any choices the kids make are pretty inconsequential, in the monthly usage.

Joful said:

I think this is a neat idea, but I don't see it working out in practicality. Our electric bill can go up/down by as much as $200/mo, depending on who's home, house guests, what project I'm working on (welders / machinery / shop heating), weather, etc. Any choices the kids make are pretty inconsequential, in the monthly usage.

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Yeah, there were some hiccups with this and we ended up covering some expenses under special circumstances.
When I analyzed our family's usage I found water heating and winter heating to be the biggest energy sinks by far.
The boys were able to have an impact here with shorter showers and keeping the wood stove (and supply) going.

So that would be around 80Kwh/mo for your hot water? What kind of tank is that again?

maple1 said:

Just opened my latest power bill.

Daily usage over the two months immediately prior was 16.8 kwh/day.

That's down from 21.1 & 20.9 the two prior periods, and 19.7 the same period a year ago. Highest usage in the past year was July/August of 2013 at 24.3, when I wasn't burning wood to heat our hot water. Looking at that aspect again, it would seem that using our 80 gallon electric hot water heater for hot water was only costing us (family of 5) around $15/month in electricity. I find that one a bit mind blowing - I had estimated it at around $30/mo one other time. We pay about $0.18/kwh all-in, but the all-in includes a $10.83/mo base charge. So the less you use, the more your all-in $/kwh works out to.

I'm attributing the drop to 16.8 mainly to replacing 48" flourescent tube fixtures in my office with 'regular' two-bulb ones with CFLs in them, and putting my computer to sleep right after supper most evenings - it used to stay on 24/7. I'd like to hit the water pump next - by reducing consumption with maybe a new front load washer, and reducing starts by maybe adding another pressure tank for more capacity. That's partly for electricity reasons, and partly for easing the stress on our very oldish dug well. It's never gone dry before, but we've come close a couple times. But will see how things go...

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There is a cool device, I forget the name, that acts to replace the pressure tanks with a funky orifice and one very small tank. What it does is convert your pump into a variable flow rate pump by throttling the pipe size where your old pressure tanks used to be. Centrifugal pumps can dead head, and when they do, use little electric. Easier on the pump, easier on the well, and maybe lower power consumption. It's a constant pressure device.

Highbeam said:

There is a cool device, I forget the name, that acts to replace the pressure tanks with a funky orifice and one very small tank. What it does is convert your pump into a variable flow rate pump by throttling the pipe size where your old pressure tanks used to be. Centrifugal pumps can dead head, and when they do, use little electric. Easier on the pump, easier on the well, and maybe lower power consumption. It's a constant pressure device.

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I think it was a Jacuzzi product but not sure. We had one on our system that went bad. I don't think that they market it anymore.

During a sightseeing trip April 21-30 I had the chance to see what our electric usage was with an empty house and everything essentially shut off. Daily usage was 7-8 kwh, and I estimate about 30% of that was the side-by-side refrig and a separate upright freezer. Almost all of the balance was the dhw heater and some electric heat in the basement, with these being on a separate meter. Static use by a few "off" appliances was insignificant. We are close to the point of zero use for electric heat.

jebatty said:

We are close to the point of zero use for electric heat.

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That's with the net metering construct, right? The sun doesn't shine at night, and for that matter, a good bunch of the winter. 240 kw-hrs for a month is not that low. Do you really need that freezer? Why are you heating the basement at the end of April?

It's not that low. The side-by-side uses 3 kwh/day when we are home and it is 20 or so years old. The upright freezer is 1.3 kwh/day when we are home, probably about the same when we are away because it is not opened very much. Hot water for the kitchen is from a 5 gal dedicated hwh which I did not shut off but could have if I had remembered. When we are home it uses about 2.65 kwh/day. These 3 items, plus static use by "off" appliances, totaled the 7-8 kwh/day while we were gone.

I made a mistake in the prior post. General dhw plus heat in the basement (dedicated meter) was 5 kwh/day average while we were gone, and of that, a little over 3 kwh/day is the dhw when we are home, certainly was less when we were gone. The balance is basement electric heat which is set at 50F. Minnesota is still pretty cold where we live, 29F this morning, so some heat is still used to make the basement a little more comfortable. It certainly is not subject to freezing temps any longer though. For all of April basement heating was about 320 kwh, or about 36,000 btu/day. That's the same as 6 lbs of seasoned wood per day.

I am in the process of building a solar hot air collector just for the basement which I hope will handle the shoulder season basement heating needs, plus a little in the dead of winter. Our 6.5 kwh solar electric system which was installed last October is estimated to provide close to 100% of our total kwh usage over a year on net metering, including heat in the basement.

jebatty said:

These 3 items, plus static use by "off" appliances, totaled the 7-8 kwh/day while we were gone.

I made a mistake in the prior post. General dhw plus heat in the basement (dedicated meter) was 5 kwh/day average while we were gone, and of that, a little over 3 kwh/day is the dhw when we are home, certainly was less when we were gone. The balance is basement electric heat which is set at 50F.

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I'm having a hard time following. The whole house uses 8 per day and of that, dhw was 3 and resistance was 2? Then one could say the rest of the house is running on 3 kwh per day? That is nice and low.

This whole "seperate meter" thing is also confusing. When you say 8 you mean 8 right? Or is it 8 plus 5.

I'll try again. While we were gone, "general" meter usage was 7-8 kwh/day, and of that the side-by-side kitchen fridge/freezer and an upright freezer used 4.3 kwh/day (based on "at home" monitoring), with the balance used by a dedicated 5 gal water heater for the kitchen plus static use by "off" appliances. I could have turned off the hot water heater but forgot to do so. The 7-8 kwh/day was provided approximately 3 kwh/day from solar and 4-5kwh/day from the grid.

We have a separate "dual fuel" dedicated meter which is just for electric heat and the main electric hot water heater. Those two together used 5 kwh/day while we were gone. Based on prior monitoring the main electric hot water heater uses 2.65 kwh/day average when we are at home.

So, total usage while we were gone was 12-13 kwh/day.

So, 8 - 4.3 = 3.7 kwh/day for standby for the little water heater plus "off" appliances? That seems high. Does the little water heater use a lot of juice on standby? Might be time to go around the place looking for those ghost loads.

The little water heater is a 120V unit with extra insulation, heat traps, etc. I am going to disconnect that and wire in the Kill-o-watt to see what usage actually is. I've thought about doing that for a long time, now is the time.

jebatty said:

So, total usage while we were gone was 12-13 kwh/day.

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That sounds better. I log around 14 per day with nothing "on".

Has anyone actually measured how much electricity their electric dryer used for a whole cycle?
As Highbeam mentioned, the element cycles so you can't just multiply the rating times time.
What I'm getting at is know how much heat is actually produced. I'm hoping to capture it to pre-heat water before our HWH.

semipro said:

Has anyone actually measured how much electricity their electric dryer used for a whole cycle?
As Highbeam mentioned, the element cycles so you can't just multiply the rating times time.

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My TED 1001 has been doing that since the 24th of last month. I'm averaging around 3-3.5kWh per load.

Next month I'm going to monitor the A/C air handler.

Where2 said:

My TED 1001 has been doing that since the 24th of last month. I'm averaging around 3-3.5kWh per load.

Next month I'm going to monitor the A/C air handler.

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How do you set up the TED 1001 to monitor separate circuits? I assume putting the CTs on the circuit's wires in the breaker panel?

semipro said:

Has anyone actually measured how much electricity their electric dryer used for a whole cycle?
As Highbeam mentioned, the element cycles so you can't just multiply the rating times time.
What I'm getting at is know how much heat is actually produced. I'm hoping to capture it to pre-heat water before our HWH.

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I monitor it, not continuously however.

I average about 4.2kWh. Alot depends on cycle and whether or not I catch it before the "anti crease" cycle runs for a while. Unfortunately there is no way to disable AntiCrease that I know of.

Im using the Bosch Axxis washer and dryer. Both are 240v compact models from Europe.

scooby074 said:

I monitor it, not continuously however.

I average about 4.2kWh. Alot depends on cycle and whether or not I catch it before the "anti crease" cycle runs for a while. Unfortunately there is no way to disable AntiCrease that I know of.

Im using the Bosch Axxis washer and dryer. Both are 240v compact models from Europe.

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Your Axxis dryer is vented right? I believe some are ventless condensing types.

semipro said:

Your Axxis dryer is vented right? I believe some are ventless condensing types.

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Yes, mines vented. So far its been great. Were really happy with it.

velvetfoot said:

How do you set up the TED 1001 to monitor separate circuits? I assume putting the CTs on the circuit's wires in the breaker panel?

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Exactly. I pull the panel cover and move the CT's from one dedicated circuit to the next and monitor for a month. I'm less concerned with the per use consumption of a device and more concerned with the per month average. My dryer is a ~2009 Samsung 7.4cu ft, with a vent run <2' long.

When I originally estimated my electric use for the PV system I designed for my roof, every 240V load was literally a guess. I could track the 120v loads with my kill-a-watt, but never the 240V loads. Now that I have inexpensive tools to track the 240V loads I'm going back and figuring out how much energy goes to what 240V appliance every month.

Where2 said:

Exactly. I pull the panel cover and move the CT's from one dedicated circuit to the next and monitor for a month. I'm less concerned with the per use consumption of a device and more concerned with the per month average. My dryer is a ~2009 Samsung 7.4cu ft, with a vent run <2' long.

When I originally estimated my electric use for the PV system I designed for my roof, every 240V load was literally a guess. I could track the 120v loads with my kill-a-watt, but never the 240V loads. Now that I have inexpensive tools to track the 240V loads I'm going back and figuring out how much energy goes to what 240V appliance every month.

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Do you suppose a short dryer vent run saves significant energy? I wonder if the flowrate goes up, exit temps go down, and moisture removal goes down for longer runtimes.

Highbeam said:

Do you suppose a short dryer vent run saves significant energy? I wonder if the flowrate goes up, exit temps go down, and moisture removal goes down for longer runtimes.

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It certainly can't hurt the performance. I didn't specifically choose to have a vent run this short (house was bought with it), but it is much more convenient to clean out than the typical house that seems to have 12' or more of corrugated ducting. I'm using an extendable/retractable offset duct which connects to a pipe straight through the block wall behind my dryer to the outdoors.

did a lot of bitching last fall about nastygrid price increase. got my bill yesterday and the rates are back down for the cooling season. electric charge down from $.1025 to $.08277.delivery the same. great to see the reduction, even though it's only $40.00-50.00 or so for 6 mos. the money can be spent elsewhere. have a day

The regular winter increase in electric prices is kind of tough when you're thinking of using electric for heat as an alternative to oil.