Monitoring Electricity Use...

My pet peeve is the 30-40 watts or so that the insert blower uses. We have that thing on most all of the winter. It'd be nice if the motors were the efficient ECM type. I have an extra blower in case the current one fails, and I looked at the motor: it sure doesn't look like a standard size to me, so I don't think it'd be a matter of a swap. Who knows, maybe it's possible now, maybe in the future.

Grisu said:

I am totally with you. The thread should be about saving energy and not about financial gains or the best ways to save money.

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I can't say to whom begreen was referring, but as for me, the reason I'd be interested in monitoring home energy usage is for the sole purpose of saving money. Checking the marketing on just about every energy monitoring device ever made, I'd say that's a common goal.

Joful said:

I can't say to whom begreen was referring, but as for me, the reason I'd be interested in monitoring home energy usage is for the sole purpose of saving money. Checking the marketing on just about every energy monitoring device ever made, I'd say that's a common goal.

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Would that really be so hard to determine? The Efergy e2 retails at about $100. Let's say your power rate is 10 ct/kWh and any power saving improvements you do last 10 years. Hence you would need to save 1000 kWh in 10 years or ~0.3 kWh per day to make the Efergy worthwhile. Given the kWh savings reported here, that is easily achieved. Nevertheless, the device can only show where electricity is used. Changes to consumption still need to be wanted and implemented by the homeowner. I do it because I still want to be able to look into the eyes of my kids when I am older.

velvetfoot said:

My pet peeve is the 30-40 watts or so that the insert blower uses. We have that thing on most all of the winter. It'd be nice if the motors were the efficient ECM type. I have an extra blower in case the current one fails, and I looked at the motor: it sure doesn't look like a standard size to me, so I don't think it'd be a matter of a swap. Who knows, maybe it's possible now, maybe in the future.

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That and the noise were the reasons why I tested whether my insert would work without the blower. Fortunately, I have an interior fireplace and turning off the blower has no measurable impact on the temps in our home. Now I am running the blower only during the first two hours after a reload to get the heat out a bit faster and to avoid an overfire situation.

It's all about the money for me.

That and being as efficient as possible, I hate waste. (Wasting money)

I just got an Efergy for the cabin - I was disappointed to be running at 3 kWh/day base load. Dad likes us to keep the lights on to make it look a bit more lived-in when we're not there. Even though they're CFLs they still add up I guess - that and the fridge. I was hoping to transition to a smaller and more energy efficient fridge but I can't find one that scales to size? A 10 cu. ft. fridge/freezer would be more than enough for us right now (and I'm sure I could go to a smaller size if the energy savings were there), but the small fridges tend to run at nearly the same energy usage as the normal size. Guess I might need to look into a Sun Frost or similar. Or unplug the fridge when we're not there. But that's a pain. I've had milk last 3 weeks past its best before date in that fridge .

Thanks BB . Problem is that it's off-grid and I can't even really calculate how much I owe towards the generator bill. Let's see, a 15 kW generator running 24/7/365 (but say only at 1/2 load) = 65700 kWh/yr and the fuel bill is about $30k every 10 months, so back of an envelope calculation our electricity is about $0.55/kWh. Hey I've never done that calculation before. I can afford $1.65 a day. Hmm, might need more than a back-of-the-envelope (or is it calculating-while-posting?) math though.

I do think my Dad was shocked by how low the Efergy runs when our fridge is on (about 200 W just for the fridge). I might manage to convince him to replace his 1970s fridge monstrosity yet... (but there is a little voice in my head already saying, "but it still works...").

Cynnergy said:

I do think my Dad was shocked by how low the Efergy runs when our fridge is on (about 200 W just for the fridge). I might manage to convince him to replace his 1970s fridge monstrosity yet... (but there is a little voice in my head already saying, "but it still works...").

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You may want to explore this tool with your Dad.
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator&

Thanks Semipro - I did get an Efergy for my dad a few years ago, so we won't have to use a calculator, but that is a nifty calculator. I'm hoping that seeing the real numbers will help with the change process. At least enough to convince him to get a new fridge!

Sorry BG, taken out of context a bit (although it still is an environmental monstrosity). The generator is for the use of the whole community (there are 4 full-time residents including my parents + many seasonal residents), but still, it doesn't make sense these days. We have benefited from use of the generator for free (thanks to the bank of mom and dad chipping in for us) while reno'ing the cabin, but I intend to get our own individual renewables system once we have saved up enough. I certainly can't afford to pay even a portion of that fuel bill as is. We are back and forth a lot (pretty much every weekend) and I do love the fridge, but ditching it would certainly make the renewable system a cheaper option. I have looked into getting even just a battery bank for the generator so that it doesn't have to be run all of the time, but change does not come easy on the island...

Cynnergy said:

Thanks Semipro - I did get an Efergy for my dad a few years ago, so we won't have to use a calculator, but that is a nifty calculator. I'm hoping that seeing the real numbers will help with the change process. At least enough to convince him to get a new fridge! ..

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The tool does more than maybe you realize? It will not only project usage but will also show return on investment based on your choice of a newer fridge.

Cynnergy said:

The generator is for the use of the whole community (there are 4 full-time residents including my parents + many seasonal residents), but still, it doesn't make sense these days.

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Might be interesting to see what the load on the generator is - i.e. what is the "base" load on it with the whole community taken into account. IF there are significant periods where the base load is low enough, some sort of battery storage may be in order and might actually save some money over the life of the batteries. I.e. batteries to handle the base load for 6 hrs, then run generator at an efficient load (as I understand it you get better efficiency somewhere above 50% load) to charge the batteries, then rinse and repeat.... Generator in-line to handle peak/high demand periods.

Of course, this would then make it much simpler to provide a solar solution too - i.e. hooked to same battery bank.

Anyway - if you don't know what you are using (and when) it is hard to guess what options you have eh?

I love using my Ted5000 to see our loads. Definitely has been a habit changer here. Not only do I know what heavy loads to avoid (that 500watt flood light in the back-yard is only on now when we actually have a need), but I also am a lot more chilled about some of the other things - i.e. that LED lamp the kids leave on a lot really is rather immaterial in the whole scheme of things and the whole "vampire load" of charging bricks? I can't hardly notice them so I quit worry about them.

Yep. I've seen use above $90/mo. with one dehumidifier. I currently run three (2 basement, 1 attic), and they do suck down the juice. One of my primary reasons for interest in HPWH's.

I have had similar numbers.
I see a HPWH as a dehumidifier that makes free hot water too.

Redbarn said:

I have had similar numbers.
I see a HPWH as a dehumidifier that makes free hot water too.

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My basement dehumidifer doesn't use anything like that, I will put the K-A-W on it and report back. It is noticeable to me how much less it cycles now that I've completed all my air sealing, although the biggest drop in demand was when I added a proper interior door under my Bilco door.
I'd jump for a HPHW if I was sure that I've got my acidic well water under control. Even though I have a neutralizer, I still get a lot of corrosion, I haven't figured out why so I don't want to be eating away at a $1000 tank.

My hot water and electric dryer use about 300kwh/month (they are on a separate meter), so that's a huge chunk that I need to tackle.

TE

It would appear my EV driving 1000 mi/mo uses less juice than some of your dehumidifiers.

For the record, my Central AC all summer (to 72°F) only needs about 700 kWh for the season, about $100.

OK, my dehumidifier pulls just below 450W when running, but averaged below 1kWh/day over the past few days, which were hot and humid. That keeps my basement at about 75% RH (@65F), which is high, but good enough. For those of you with much more serious loads, everything you do to air seal that basement will provide double returns, less cold air in winter, less damp in summer.

TE

The thread should be about saving energy and not about financial gains or the best ways to save money.

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I agree, and I also could agree that often these complement each other. Our total annual usage of electricity pre-PV was about 12,000 kwh, which includes about 6000 kwh for supplemental electric heat in the basement and about 6000 kwh for general usage in an all electric house, except for the wood stove in the living room which is the primary heat source. We sized our new PV system at annual production of 9-10,000 kwh with the goal of reducing usage to not more than we produce. By the end of October we will know how well we have done in meeting that goal.

Logically we would not have needed the PV to set the goal of reduction, but the PV is a strong emotional incentive to reach a goal of net-zero. And the PV results in financial savings too. Before the new goal of no net grid electricity, we already had significantly reduced usage for the purpose of saving energy, and again saving energy also resulted in financial savings.

Energy, regardless of source, is an expense. So saving energy, regardless of source, has a financial complement. If a worthy goal is reduced energy usage, does it make a difference if saving money (financial gain) is the motivation for achieving that goal?

Grisu said:

The thread should be about saving energy and not about financial gains or the best ways to save money.

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I'm still not sure who made Grisu the one to decide what another's thread should be about, but if we go back to the OP:

maple1 said:

...my E-Matic whole-house energy monitor showed in the mail today (same as the Efergy, I'd say - even see the word Efergy in the manual in a few places). Just got done setting it up. I got out our last power bill, divided our total bill $ amount by kwh used and input that into the monitor for $/kwh. It's now saying I'm using $0.15/hour of electricity. I get the bill out again and divide the total amount of the bill by hours in the billing period, and get $0.16/hour.

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Saving our resources is great, but you can't expect many to hop on your bandwagon, if it's going to cost them personally. This was the aim of my question on p.7, using solar (at least locally) as an example. Knowing a few locals with large solar installations, it appears they're still operating at a loss, considering total installation costs and equipment lifetime.

jebatty said:

I agree, and I also could agree that often these complement each other.

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That is the ultimate goal! We all feel good when we conserve our resources, and money is perhaps the most powerful motivator to this end.

Since I've reinstalled the Energy Detective in the kitchen, I've found I look at it a lot. You get to know about how much the house should be using at any one time and can spot a light or other consumer needlessly left on. I'm still not sure I'd trust the total kw-hr reading. It's projection for end of month total seems optimistic at this point.