Harman or quadrafire

alternativeheat said:

I have about 8 bags of Energex under a tarp on a pallet outdoors. But I'm not putting pellets in my basement, I stopped carrying buckets of coal from the basement years ago and I'm not going back to that with pellets. A shed is at ground level and I like that better. Actually I'm fine with them under the tarp but "she who must be obeyed" is not ! And I'm not ok with my tractor under a tarp so we are on equal ground.

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I hear ya....
I have 1 flight of 7 steps so I sling a bag a day on my shoulder..
She will take a bag up also if she is down there doing laundry.. I don't complain...

joe simmons said:

I'm looking to get a pellet insert and have harman and quadrafire dealers near me, I know they are owned by the same company, but what brand is the better of the two and why? Or are there others out there in the inserts that would be just as good? Looking at the Santa Fe and p35i . Thanks I'm totally new to the pellet stove thing

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Well, since you ARE asking about what stove is best and you DON'T have a stove yet, I don't think I'll violate my little agreement with the mods so here goes. You're in Pennsylvania. You're sitting on the richest deposit of CLEAN burning coal that gives off almost twice the heat per pound as pellets. Coal where you are is about $50 a ton LESS than a ton of pellets. If you do that math, there is NO comparison in cost. $50 less for twice the heat. Coal stoves give off 3 times as many btu's/hr as most pellet stoves so there won't be any posts about how to get more heat out of your stove to keep your house warm. Coal STOKER stoves cost about the same as a good pellet stove and are easy to clean and thermostat adjustable. Today's coal stoves are not the dirty, nasty beasts that your father or grandfather fiddled with down in the basement. Do some research and don't be disappointed. Anyone who tries to talk you out of a coal stove where you live is doing you a disservice.
Also you don't have to worry about storage. The weather is not going to ruin your coal.
http://www.readingstove.com/
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
http://www.keystoker.com/

Too toxic, from manufacture to burning.

Tonyray said:

I hear ya....
I have 1 flight of 7 steps so I sling a bag a day on my shoulder..
She will take a bag up also if she is down there doing laundry.. I don't complain...

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The years of slinging things onto my shoulder are gone but I can still sling a bag under arm and carry it into the house that way. An old injury keeps my neck in check pretty well. I get by fine if I don't test it !

I really don't think my wife could lift 40 lbs lol. Probably in a wheel barrel she could. She gets around her gardening pretty well with that. If things get too heavy or bulky we hook the cart up to the tractor ( the tractor is mine, the cart is hers it seems)..

alternativeheat said:

The years of slinging things onto my shoulder are gone but I can still sling a bag under arm and carry it into the house that way. An old injury keeps my neck in check pretty well. I get by fine if I don't test it !

I really don't think my wife could lift 40 lbs lol. Probably in a wheel barrel she could. She gets around her gardening pretty well with that. If things get too heavy or bulky we hook the cart up to the tractor ( the tractor is mine, the cart is hers it seems)..

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my wife is a self-porclaimed Packhorse...pretty strong women...
she actually brings up more bags than me since she is in the basement always doing laundry and stuff....

slls said:

Too toxic, from manufacture to burning.

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Tell that to the Chinese and Indian who are burning OUR coal right now! And that's soft coal, not Anthracite, by the way.

tjnamtiw said:

Tell that to the Chinese and Indian who are burning OUR coal right now! And that's soft coal, not Anthracite, by the way.

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You really think the Chinese care, or India.

slls said:

You really think the Chinese care, or India.

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THAT'S THE POINT. 320 million Americans are going to save the planet while 1.4 BILLION Chinese and 1.25 BILLION Indians could care less??? That's not counting the billions of Africans burning buffalo dung for heat and to cook with. WE CAN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE THE WAY WE ARE GOING. The only difference is that our economy goes further in the sewer, our individual wealth erodes at an exponential rate, and jobs disappear along with any moral fiber we still have after the purge.

I think they both make great stoves, and yes owned by the same company but built differently.....

If it were me (having installed and fixed both) I'd go for a Quad because they are less expensive and just as RELIABLE.

joe simmons said:

I originally was looking into the coal stoves, but don't have a chimney and don't want a flue running up the side of my house which where I am putting the stove the flue would be at the front of my house, I also hear from the coal stove that the power vented models are high maintentance compared to the standard flue! More maintentance on them than pellet stoves , the real deal breaker is the flue

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Are you just running the flue straight out the side of the house with no vertical portion? Is it the downwind side of the house?

tjnamtiw said:

THAT'S THE POINT. 320 million Americans are going to save the planet while 1.4 BILLION Chinese and 1.25 BILLION Indians could care less??? That's not counting the billions of Africans burning buffalo dung for heat and to cook with. WE CAN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE THE WAY WE ARE GOING. The only difference is that our economy goes further in the sewer, our individual wealth erodes at an exponential rate, and jobs disappear along with any moral fiber we still have after the purge.

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So you think sending acid to the NE is no issue for you. I was touring the SE a few years back, saw all the coal fired electric plants on the Ohio river.
They can keep the sludge and ash, just scrub and keep the stack pollutants also.

slls said:

So you think sending acid to the NE is no issue for you. I was touring the SE a few years back, saw all the coal fired electric plants on the Ohio river.
They can keep the sludge and ash, just scrub and keep the stack pollutants also.

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What are you talking about?????? 'Sending acid to the NE'???? ANTHRACITE is IN THE NE and no where else in the country Use it or lose it. I'm not talking about bit coal. That's another whole argument that doesn't deserve to mess up this forum. The guy asked for alternatives. It's up to HIM to use what his wallet can handle and what suits his situation.
hopefully the end of the rant<<<

joe simmons said:

South facing wall, venting straight out, if I need to go up some I will !

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I talked about down wind side of the house assuming from your description that the vent's coming out of the front of your house that you would be coming straight out. If wind blows onto that side, then in a power outage you might get smoke blown into your house since there would be no natural draft.

Yes, I too have read that power vents on coal stoves can be an expense but I would hope by now that they've improved them. You will read MANY posts on here about problems with our combustion blowers also.

Fisk says sure, there are trade offs, but nothing wrong with an insert.

NHcpa said:

Fisk says sure, there are trade offs, but nothing wrong with an insert.

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No, I have two of them only because my house layout did not offer any location for a self standing one plus I had two fireplaces. In retrospect, they ARE more time consuming and aggravating to clean or troubleshoot, especially the flue. Ones like the M55 and Harman do have rails which help a lot.

tjnamtiw said:

No, I have two of them only because my house layout did not offer any location for a self standing one plus I had two fireplaces. In retrospect, they ARE more time consuming and aggravating to clean or troubleshoot, especially the flue. Ones like the M55 and Harman do have rails which help a lot.

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Yup, got the rail kit, but haven't used it yet. It's still going to be heavy and am putting off till fall for a full clean.

tjnamtiw said:

What are you talking about?????? 'Sending acid to the NE'???? ANTHRACITE is IN THE NE and no where else in the country Use it or lose it. I'm not talking about bit coal. That's another whole argument that doesn't deserve to mess up this forum. The guy asked for alternatives. It's up to HIM to use what his wallet can handle and what suits his situation.
hopefully the end of the rant<<<

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NEW ENGLAND HAS NO COAL, AND NOT BURNING

You started it , post 27.

slls said:

NEW ENGLAND HAS NO COAL, AND NOT BURNING

You started it , post 27.

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hahaha. NE can have all the anthracite they want. It's called a TRUCK and it's STILL cheaper per btu than pellets by a long shot! All in good humor, I hope. There's people on nepacrossroads.com that advertise reasonable rates throughout New England for truck load or a split load.

tjnamtiw said:

hahaha. NE can have all the anthracite they want. It's called a TRUCK and it's STILL cheaper per btu than pellets by a long shot! All in good humor, I hope. There's people on nepacrossroads.com that advertise reasonable rates throughout New England for truck load or a split load.

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Ohio burns more coal in 1 hr, than NE in one year. I was referring to coal power plants, not much coal burned residential in NE.
I burned coal once , dirty, and NO ONE wanted the ash.

slls said:

Ohio burns more coal in 1 hr, than NE in one year. I was referring to coal power plants, not much coal burned residential in NE.
I burned coal once , dirty, and NO ONE wanted the ash.

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If you got dirty working with anthracite coal you were doing something or other I didn't do. Not sure what. If the coal is slightly dampened there is no dust at all from the coal. When you shake a coal stove down keep the main firebox door shut and there is no ash dust that way. When you pull the ash pan take it outdoors to dump it. I hear of people talking about all this dust in their houses from coal stoves and can't figure that out. I burned coal for 35 years and had nearly no dust. I get more dust from emptying a bag of pellets into the hopper than I ever did from my coal stove ever. And again, with care even that can be minimal.

You got me on the ash though. Funny, it got so the dump wouldn't even take the ash but yet roadside pickup would if it was bagged up. If you dump ash in your yard enough to make a hump out there, you have a hump for eternity. And if you make that hump from a ton of burned coal you have a hump that weighs perhaps 200-400 lbs depending how well your stove burns. Coal ash is no good for gardening, it's good filler for an asphalt mix I guess. Wood ash is good for gardening and I just dump our pellet ash in my wifes raised beds.

But ya, here in southern New England I think there is one supplier left who will deliver 2 tons at a time of small cut coal that will work in today's stokers. Other than that it's 10-20 ton delivery from out of state. We were uncomfortable with the coal supply situation here so rather than buy a stoker we bought the P61a pellet stove.

Whichever stove you like. Buy 2 so you can have a spare! That is what I like to do.

Pic 1 - The Quad Contour Twins!
Pic 2,3,4 - My 3 Harmans -- The P61a-2 brothers! - I really like Harmans.
Pic 5 - Dualing Quad Santa Fe's - When cousins are two of a kind!

Click pics to Enlarge: