RE: All wheel drive question

Jake: I have had the chance to drive an A4 Quattro, a Volvo XC70 (obviously AWD) and multiple subarus (1996 legacy automatic, 1998 legacy manual, 2005 impreza RS and 2010 Forester auto). Personally, I did not enjoy the Volvo AWD system. I felt there was a delay in the system "kicking in". The system is 95/5. http://4x4abc.com/4WD101/volvo.html

THe Quattro was an amazing AWD system from my point of view (basic, does it work, lets have fun). However, it is expensive. It's an expensive car. NOt all models have AWD. Subaru's AWD system, IMHO, are just as good and half the price. Depending on the model, it can be 50/50, 60/40, etc. BUt it's great. Especially in the older models. I am not a big fan of electronically controlled AWD systems. I would rather a mechanical one.

Either vehicles are great. The crosstrek simply replaced the old outback sport. I dont overly like the feel of the CVT transmission on the ROgue (drove one). BUt that's just me.

I live in Quebec, we get lots of snow. Subarus+nokian tires = tanks. I enjoy looking at a company that support AWD 100% and I don't "see" the extra cost the AWD: it's part of the price. I don't like the idea of wanting a Toyota Sienna AWD but having to add $7000 to the base model price to get through our winters with a little less stress.

Let us know what you end up buying!

Andrew

It seems tires and ground clearance are the deciding factor when the snow gets deep. You are only going to plow the snow so far up on the front. My RWD biased ATTESA E-TS system on my Infiniti has never left me stuck anywhere but I don't usually try to push it when it comes to deep snow.

Come to Quebec and I will show you what real snow looks like When the plow can't keep up because you're getting 2-3 inches/hr, sometimes you don't have a choice but have to drive in 4-7 inches. Good tires make a HUGE difference. Ground clearance too.

Swedishchef said:

Come to Quebec and I will show you what real snow looks like When the plow can't keep up because you're getting 2-3 inches/hr, sometimes you don't have a choice but have to drive in 4-7 inches. Good tires make a HUGE difference. Ground clearance too.

Click to expand...

Only 4-7 inches

I live in an area that holds the world record for snowfall.

BrotherBart said:

http://www.atlasvanlines.com/

Click to expand...

Took me a second... at first I thought, "they don't have AWD vans?"

530cm cm total snowfall last winter. Gotta love it. AWD is very convenient. I never have a single worry. I keep watching cars spin, slide, etc. (and yes BB, I am moving within 2-6 months lol)

A

Treacherous said:

Only 4-7 inches

I live in an area that holds the world record for snowfall.

Click to expand...

Do you live on mount baker?
63% of vehicles registered on the road where I live are pickup trucks. 21% of the population doesn't work so there isn't more than 40% of them that are contractors and really need 4WD large vehicles

Swedishchef said:

Do you live on mount baker?
63% of vehicles registered on the road where I live are pickup trucks. 21% of the population doesn't work so there isn't more than 40% of them that are contractors and really need 4WD large vehicles

Click to expand...

No... not there. I do have a place though in the central cascades (around 3500 feet) that is snowbound from around late November through March (accessible only by snow machine). We do get similar snow rates to what you have at times. Fortunately we don't have to deal with the lowland snow very often on the west side since as often is the case many can't drive in it.

Ground clearance is one place that AWD has an advantage over 4WD (for equivalent tire size at least). 4WD typically have a larger rear differential that you have to drag/push through the snow, while AWDs are usually much smaller. Of course a VW bus has them all beaten for clearance, but not so good in the snow.
My outback drove through an unplowed lot with snow up to the headlights, I only got stuck (temporarily) when I started to play around. I'm sure many AWD cars could do the same, but some people seem to think you need some huge truck, massive engine and tire thread deep enough to plant flowers in. You don't. If the snow is at your headlights, you shouldn't be on the roads.

I remember vividly leaving a restaurant one night when a sudden drop in temperature caused the roads to be unexpectedly covered with black ice. I was driving my Passat FWD, with brand new tires, but I could hardly keep it on the road at 10mph, the steering wheel was almost useless, any tap of the gas and the traction control kicked in, cars were spinning everywhere. My wife was driving the Outback, just a few minutes behind me. By the time I got home, my stomach was in knots from the drive, and I waited anxiously for her to arrive. Ten or fifteen long minutes later, she drives in asking "What's going on? Why is everybody driving so slowly, with their hazards lights on?". Oblivious! That's one problem with all of these AWD/4WD, you have great acceleration traction, but you don't get any cues that your brakes aren't going to work. SUVs rear-ending cars are a common sight around here each snow day, the cars are driving carefully, braking gradually, the SUVs aren't.

TE

I dont know if all AWDs have differentials that much smaller than FWDs, and even if they did you are only talking at most 1 or maybe 2 inches extra clearance vs. say a Ford 9 inch rear end (that would have a depth of ~ 5 inches from the axle centerline).

What AWDs do have is typically 4 wheel independent suspension, vs. the solid axles in te rear of your typical 4x4 truck, so the diff sits up a bit higher.

Either way I don see that as much of an issue... The diff hanging down is not going to make a major difference in snow driving, it will just drag a trench in the snow. The snow plowing up against the front bumper is what will finally stop you. In that deep snow situation your typical 4x4 pickup with 12 inches clearance is going to go a bit further than an outback with 8 inches.

Perhaps it's the solid axle as much as the diff, and maybe it wouldn't make a difference in snow, but the ground clearance of an F150 is only 8.8", - that's only 0.1" more than an Outback despite a vastly larger tire. The rest of the truck may be 12" above the road, but the lowest point is what'll find the rock or stump.

Anyway, the best off road vehicle ever is any rental sedan from Las Vegas airport....

TE

TradEddie said:

Perhaps it's the solid axle as much as the diff, and maybe it wouldn't make a difference in snow, but the ground clearance of an F150 is only 8.8", - that's only 0.1" more than an Outback despite a vastly larger tire. The rest of the truck may be 12" above the road, but the lowest point is what'll find the rock or stump.

Click to expand...

Until the rear axel or diff on my truck hit some hard packed snow it plows through it just fine. Agreed that an independent suspension with the differential up higher would obviously do better then a solid axle, I don't think that a solid axle has as much trouble getting caught up in snow as it does offroad or in mud.

are those the factory wheels?

I've seen the ones like those used on ATV's & UTV's where wheel is replaced but this is interesting leaving the wheel on.

TradEddie said:

Perhaps it's the solid axle as much as the diff, and maybe it wouldn't make a difference in snow, but the ground clearance of an F150 is only 8.8", - that's only 0.1" more than an Outback despite a vastly larger tire. The rest of the truck may be 12" above the road, but the lowest point is what'll find the rock or stump.

Anyway, the best off road vehicle ever is any rental sedan from Las Vegas airport....

TE

Click to expand...

True.... my point being just like you said, the publish ground clearance is really critical only for offroading where there is a danger of hanging the diff up on a rock.. In the snow its the clearance to the axle that matters.

Sucks to have a car going south on you like this but it sounds like you already started your homework on new car. Get whatever makes you & the wife happy.

Sorry to hear that, Jake! I assume you're talking about your 2003 Subaru... and you're thinking of buying another Subaru? It seems your Honda has almost twice the mileage, and half the problems.

Did Subaru have head gasket issues during those years?

Is the thermostat stuck? Sorry to hear that jake...when you start having issues and lose confidence in your wheels it sucks.

Keep us posted,

Andrew