Buck 91/Kuma Sequoia insert for basement? Is it big inside?

jrm1504 · Aug 29, 2014

Greetings. I have been lurking on here for awhile trying to bone up on everything to make a wise purchase.

I have a 5500 sq ft daylight basement house. Currently, in the family room which is on one end of the main level we have a fpx hybrid-fyre.

What I do like about it...the firebox is an ok size. When you turn it up, boy can it heat up the family room and kitchen. However, heat seems trapped in those two rooms, despite what I do to try and force warm air out or cool air in. The part I don't like is the burn time. The only way I can have enough left in the morning is to put a single big honker on at night and let it kinda smolder, which isn't ideal. Anything else and there is nothing but ash and a few sporadic coals in the morning.

So, I am looking to add to my stoves. In the daylight basement, I have another masonry fireplace. This fireplace is located more in the center of the house and very near a return air vent for the furnace.

So I am looking at large inserts with big fireboxes that can make 10hrs for real. That has lead me to the Buck 91. However, I am a bit concerned that the advertised firebox size of 4.4 ft^3 isn't really there as far as usable space with the cat in there.

Advice solicited...

pen · Aug 29, 2014

To the best of my knowledge, firebox size is kinda funny. If you take the measuring tape to most any stove you see in the show room, the listed size and what you calculate are probably not going to match. However, at a listed 4.4, it's still a honkin'-big stove, regardless of what the actual dimensions of "useable" space are.

If after 10 hours, there isn't something useable left in that monster of a cat stove, there is a user error!

Woody Stover · Aug 30, 2014

jrm1504 said:
I am a bit concerned that the advertised firebox size of 4.4 ft^3 isn't really there as far as usable space with the cat in there.

Yep, it's closer to 3 cf. If you can do it, I would put a freestanding stove on the hearth, as you can get a bigger firebox than you can usually find in an insert profile, but it would probably be hard to find a huge stove that would vent directly into the fireplace.

jrm1504 · Aug 30, 2014

Woody Stover said:
Yep, it's closer to 3 cf. If you can do it, I would put a freestanding stove on the hearth, as you can get a bigger firebox than you can usually find in an insert profile, but it would probably be hard to find a huge stove that would vent directly into the fireplace.

I can't really do that...I have one of those inserts that is above the ground with the hearth you can sit on. Has to be an insert.

Grisu · Aug 30, 2014

Since I get 10 hrs in a 2 cu ft insert, a 3 cu ft one should easily last that long. You say you need to let the wood smolder in order to get a burn time that long which makes me suspicious that your wood is not fully seasoned. How long has the wood been split and stacked? What species are you burning? How far down do you go with the air control?

Please be aware that XL inserts/stoves require an 8" flue; Is your chimney wide enough? Another XL insert would be the KUMA Sequoia with one of the highest BTU ratings out there. If the lintel of your fireplace is high enough (approx. 33") you could also think about the Hearthstone Equinox stove. It can be rear-vented and therefore placed in front of the fireplace.

For moving warm air have you tried a small floorfan blowing cold air into the room with the stove? That usually pushes the warm air out and establishes a convective loop. Ceiling fans on reverse can also help.

Bmore · Aug 30, 2014

The firebox is HUGE...

jrm1504 · Aug 30, 2014

Grisu said:
Since I get 10 hrs in a 2 cu ft insert, a 3 cu ft one should easily last that long. You say you need to let the wood smolder in order to get a burn time that long which makes me suspicious that your wood is not fully seasoned. How long has the wood been split and stacked? What species are you burning? How far down do you go with the air control?

Please be aware that XL inserts/stoves require an 8" flue; Is your chimney wide enough? Another XL insert would be the KUMA Sequoia with one of the highest BTU ratings out there. If the lintel of your fireplace is high enough (approx. 33") you could also think about the Hearthstone Equinox stove. It can be rear-vented and therefore placed in front of the fireplace.

For moving warm air have you tried a small floorfan blowing cold air into the room with the stove? That usually pushes the warm air out and establishes a convective loop. Ceiling fans on reverse can also help.

We farm apples and take orchards out from time to time, so I have a pretty unlimited supply of the stuff. I believe I am still working on the pile from 2005, so it is as dry as it is going to get. As for air, I have tried many things from it pulled all the way back to half way. Each time, I end up with a faint bed of dime sized or smaller coals (I think... it has been several months). At any rate, they are small enough and not enough to get more pieces of apple going. So what I have found that works the best is two rounds, one about 3in and another that is like 8. I have thought about getting some larch for mornings; apple doesn't Iike to start.

You know those kid crawl through tubes? I have even tried to put a fan on the end of those to move air better, but it barely works to circulate cooler air and create a loop. My wife hates it when I do that. I imagine he vaulted ceilings just create havoc on the air dynamics.... oh well. It is what it is.

My chimney is a masonry 10x14.

I have read a bit at the Kuma and the country flame bbf. I'd really love to know the interior dimension of the Buck 91 firebox. Ya suppose if I called they would answer that one???

Grisu · Aug 30, 2014

I have no experience with apple so I cannot comment on its likelihood to ignite easily but it is certainly a high BTU wood. I use now a lot of pine for start-ups which works like a charm so I fully support the idea with the larch in the mornings. When you say you are working on the pile of 2005 has that wood been split and stacked or are you talking about logs? Wood usually does not dry when still in logs (to the point that I split now even branches of about 3" to 4" diameter). A large pile of split wood will also mostly dry on the outside but still be wet inside. For optimal drying the wood has to be stacked properly to get maximum sun and wind and I like to top-cover it. A cheap moisture meter can be really helpful. Split a few pieces in half and check the fresh surface inserting the pins along the grain. It should read 20% or less.

How much wood are you loading for an overnight burn? I pull the coals in the front and then stuff as much firewood in the stove as I can fit in to approx. 1" under the baffle. I let it ignite, close the door and then slowly over the next 10 to 20 min I close the air stepwise until it's fully closed. With dry wood that should not be a problem.

Not sure if Buck will tell you on the phone something other than what they are stating on their website. Maybe ask them for a firebrick scheme. From the size of the bricks you can calculate how big the firebox is.

jrm1504 · Aug 30, 2014

Grisu said:
I have no experience with apple so I cannot comment on its likelihood to ignite easily but it is certainly a high BTU wood. I use now a lot of pine for start-ups which works like a charm so I fully support the idea with the larch in the mornings. When you say you are working on the pile of 2005 has that wood been split and stacked or are you talking about logs? Wood usually does not dry when still in logs (to the point that I split now even branches of about 3" to 4" diameter). A large pile of split wood will also mostly dry on the outside but still be wet inside. For optimal drying the wood has to be stacked properly to get maximum sun and wind and I like to top-cover it. A cheap moisture meter can be really helpful. Split a few pieces in half and check the fresh surface inserting the pins along the grain. It should read 20% or less.

it is still as 18-24in pieces in all their crookedness. I don't think it is a moisture issue. Our summers are hot and very dry. I tested some a few years ago and I think I got 18%. It doesn't burn like wet wood either.

Growing up before the State of Washington got all involved in emissions, we had an old Jotul. Probably a 121 or something like that. That thing was a synch to get going in the morning in comparison to the hybrid-fyre; more large coals in the box.

jrm1504 · Aug 30, 2014

Woody Stover said:
Yep, it's closer to 3 cf. If you can do it, I would put a freestanding stove on the hearth, as you can get a bigger firebox than you can usually find in an insert profile, but it would probably be hard to find a huge stove that would vent directly into the fireplace.

Here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...c-any-last-moment-thoughts.72698/#post-922291 they list the firebox dimensions as 24" wide tapering in in the rear by 12in tall by 23" deep. Would you say those dimensions seem accurate?

If so, and it tapers to 20" wide in the back, that would give a volume of 3.52 ft^3

Thanks-

Woody Stover · Aug 31, 2014

jrm1504 said:
Would you say those dimensions seem accurate?

I can't see the post you linked, but that sounds like it's in the ballpark, more or less. The stove isn't here or I'd measure again, but I measured the width half way, squared it off, and multiplied by height and depth, and came up close to 3 cf IIRC. 10 hrs. is no problem at all with the stove, with plenty of coals to re-load on. I mighta had straighter wood than the Apple, though.... ==c

jrm1504 · Sep 1, 2014

I fixed the link...

I think I am also going to try and get in contact with Kuma and see what their interior is like.

Ideally, i'd like about 21+ x 21+ x 14+ which would be 3.57 ft^3

Love to be able to load up some of the larger diameter funny shaped apple wood rounds N-S.

jrm1504 · Sep 2, 2014

I got in contact with Buck and Kuma today and here is what they said...

Buck 91:
Front Width 24"
Back Width 18.5"
Depth 22.75"
Height 10.5"
Calculated usable Volume 2.93ft^3

Kuma Sequoia:
Width 24"
Depth 19.5"
Height 13" (dealer measured at 12" and Kuma said it was 14")
Calculated usable volume 3.52 ft^3

Mark Freeman, the owner of Kuma, was pretty interesting to talk with. He said his stoves are cast in Spokane. To which I said, "let me guess, by Travis Foundry?" He said, "yup. Oddly enough, Travis's stoves are cast oversees...they don't even use their own foundry."

Right now, it looks like I'll be going with a Kuma.

begreen · Sep 2, 2014

Can you post a picture of the fireplace? Is it a full masonry unit or a metal ZeroClearance fireplace?

FWIW, some Travis parts are cast overseas, some are not.

jrm1504 · Sep 2, 2014

begreen said:
Can you post a picture of the fireplace? Is it a full masonry unit or a metal ZeroClearance fireplace?

FWIW, some Travis parts are cast overseas, some are not.

The ironic thing about Travis stuff is Travis Garske owns Travis Industries (Lopi, FPX, etc) outside of Everett, Wa. He also owns Travis Pattern and Castings in Spokane, WA (they make a lot of irrigation equipment). Apparently, Travis industries doesn't have their castings done by Travis Pattern and Castings, it instead gets outsourced. Kuma on the other hand gets all their castings done by Travis Pattern and Castings because they really like the quality done by Travis Pattern.

My fireplace is masonry.

40" wide
26" tall
28" deep on the bottom
20" deep on the top
45" from hearth to mantle

The hearth to mantle actually has me miffed. The Sequoia lists the minimum as 52" (30" from the top of the stove). My mantle is too close, by a touch. However, if I interpret NFPA 211 correctly, if I screw a heat shield to the underside of the mantle I would be good to go. However, I am not sure the State of Washington agrees with NFPA 211. I asked an installer here about my interpretation...all I go was blank stare.

Anyone know how Washington handles this???

begreen · Sep 3, 2014

If Kuma endorses the mantel heat shield for clearance reduction you should be ok.

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