Fall wood pellet availability

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iron stove said:
Im a 10 year Veteran at this, and obviously your in the BIZ, but you just cant fix some people.
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And we know that. But we just feel that we should share our thoughts,
based on what we hear from others. Like the truckers and suppliers.
What people do with that, is their choice.
But we really don' t want to see people pay more than they have to, or worse, run out
and have to do what many had to do last year... Buy 5 at a time, for premium money.
And honestly, we had to charge more, and made a lot less.

Dan
 
JustWood said:
The ones who don't "get it" usually never will. I've been in the forest products fuel wood industry for close to 30 years and have had some of the same customers for that entire time. Customers all the way from the 3 cord a year user to electric plants consuming thousands of tons of our chips/sawdust often times don't get the man power/logistics of getting wood from stump to end user.
I have wood customers that order wood in Oct. of every year and wonder why they don't get a delivery til Nov. or Dec. I tell them the same thing every year. "Why didn't you respond to the flyer we sent last Feb?" They always just shrug their shoulders.
There are some well educated/informed individuals on this forum in regards to pellet supply/sales. I woodn't take their info with a grain of salt.
That being said,,,, in my 30 years supplying fuel wood byproducts ,,, raw material supplies are at the lowest levels I've EVER seen and prices just in the last 60-90 days have increased 40-60% (raw material prices). Those increases have to be made up somewhere.
Fuel wood byproducts don't come to market with the flip of a switch like oil, nat gas, and propane. Buy early, buy often.
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I couldn't agree more. One BIG factor to remember is that in the past, producer's used to cut prices rather than build inventory through the spring and summer. Last year only small discount's were available. This year, no discount's and in some cases price increases. producer's now have more outlets and have worked hard to keep their product moving. This is the lowest pellet inventory that I have seen in 10 years. And it's industry wide. I hope for a short winter, and maybe we won't have the price volatility.One other observation. Everyone knows the box store grind their suppliers to the absolute lowest price.All of the box stores appear to have moved their prices up $20 per ton ( 239 in most places).The mills that used to be vulnerable, dug their heels in this year and were selling from a position of strength, probably the first time ever. They don't feel the need to take the offers from the bottom feeder's in exchange for volume. This is not a good sign for prices drifting lower.
 
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Pete Zahria said:
And we know that. But we just feel that we should share our thoughts,
based on what we hear from others. Like the truckers and suppliers.
What people do with that, is their choice.
But we really don' t want to see people pay more than they have to, or worse, run out
and have to do what many had to do last year... Buy 5 at a time, for premium money.
And honestly, we had to charge more, and made a lot less.

Dan
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I used to work retail for over 10 years, In Hardware stores non the less. Always had the same winter response. We would put everything out by October 1, The big chain stores were mid September. We would do business with the Commercial and " Informed" individuals. By Mid January, when inventories run low, and snow blower manufacturers are making spring stocks of Lawn mowers, people couldn't understand why they couldn't get XYZ model right this minute, or salt was getting short.

This year was the perfect example, and perfect storm.

There are multiple levels of blame. Lean manufacturing, Just in time deliveries, near ZERO inventories. All to save MONEY. Grocery stores and Box stores don't have a rear stock room with overstock, only what's on the shelves. People buy groceries for 2-3 days at a time.
People have been BRAIN WASHED into not stocking up. Past generations worked all summer to have a Food stockpile, and Firewood to last a long cold winter. There are fewer and fewer of these people every year.
At some point, this will have to revert back to the old ways of thinking.
 
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There are those who simply do not have the space. I know 2 people personally who only have room to store 1 ton or less.
 
Several places near me offer to store the pellets for you after you buy them. Not something I need since I don't have a space problem, but I'm sure is helpful to some. Personally once I've paid I want it in my sight, stacked and ready to go!
 
Once bought, my pellet dealer wants them off their lot so they have room to bring more in.
 
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The Lowes a mile from me has had the same 7 tons of junk sitting out front for the past 3 weeks. (Natures Own) They have never carried anything but the cheapest pellets. Last year it was Old Dominion and Cheat River. The only real pellet dealer here in Delaware is in Dover and they have O'Malleys for $239 a ton.(199 last year) They sold Energex last year for $239 and Hammers for $280 yet this year Hammers are $250. The Tractor Supply is a crap shoot. If you get 5 pallets you might get home with 4 different brands. Very strange how Lowes does supply and distribution. I know I have seen postings North where most of you are where they had really decent pellets.. Not here. Lucky for me I found a dealer 30mi away with 7 truckloads of Energex and a lot more coming at $209.
 
I could never understand how retailers could offer buy and store. This ties up their valuable and expensive real estate, and allows for the customer to take their product on a whim and at the customers convenience. This in turn calls for more labor on the part of the store as they need to go fetch a few more bags of the customers stash. Not to mention the liability of damage, theft or inadvertent sale of the customers' pellets to someone who needs them desperately. Then the customer has the nerve to gripe about the retailer and how they should get them their pellets NOW and at all costs! Little do they realize that if the store were to come around to their senses and charge the customer rent for the pellet storage, the cost would be equivalent to the rent between a two and a three bedroom apartment.
 
TimfromMA said:
There are those who simply do not have the space.
I know 2 people personally who only have room to store 1 ton or less.
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There are always exceptional cases like that, but it is such an insignificant number.
Those are victims of a shortage problem, and not the cause.....

Dan
 
Phoenix Hatchling said:
Little do they realize that if the store were to come around to their senses and charge the customer rent for the pellet storage, the cost would be equivalent to the rent between a two and a three bedroom apartment.
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You are WAY high on your pellet storage estimate. You could rent a storage locker big enough to hold 4+ tons for less than $100 per month.
 
TimfromMA said:
You are WAY high on your pellet storage estimate. You could rent a storage locker big enough to hold 4+ tons for less than $100 per month.
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Some parts of the world, that translates into the difference between 2 and 3 bedrooms. Back in 1996 my girlfriend was paying 50 per month for just such a locker. Let them pay 100 a month then, and by the end of the season they'll have paid (Oct to March) 600 dollars to store their $1000 pellets. That's a fair deal to the business man, but the customer would still be a stick in the s#%£ looking for help loading up their YUGO every 7 days.
 
Had 3 tons of Hamers delivered on Friday. :) Just moved them into the basement and added to my 1/2 ton of AWF's. Should be good to go for this year!
 
I still haven't bought yet.

Honestly with oil so cheap right now, and pellets so expensive, i'm really considering NOT burning much this year. The hedge is, what do oil prices do?

I'm getting about 225 gallons delivered on monday, will top off my 250 gal oil tank. That's a nice $700 bill. and will last me until end of novemeber.

WHO AM I KIDDING, the oil is for my hot water :D

I'm going to buy soon, just waiting for my frigging q3 bonus to come in which is now 3 weeks behind schedule. :/
 
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briansol said:
I still haven't bought yet.

Honestly with oil so cheap right now, and pellets so expensive, i'm really considering NOT burning much this year. The hedge is, what do oil prices do?

I'm getting about 225 gallons delivered on monday, will top off my 250 gal oil tank. That's a nice $700 bill. and will last me until end of novemeber.

WHO AM I KIDDING, the oil is for my hot water :D

I'm going to buy soon, just waiting for my frigging q3 bonus to come in which is now 3 weeks behind schedule. :/
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Know what you are saying. Just got my oil tank topped off for $3.20/gallon. Pretty happy about it, because I haven't paid that little for heating oil since November, 2010!
 
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Pellets costs would have to increase to $556 per ton or oil would have to drop to below $2 per gallon to make oil more economical for me.
 
Not for me. The rule of thumb is a bag of pellets produces the same heat as 2.5 gallons of heating oil. 2.5 gallons @ $3.20 is $8. Just to break even with pellets, I would need to pay no more than $8 * 50 = $400/ton.
 
I use 900 gallons per year before pellets and 300 after. As soon as 600 gallons of oil cost less than 3.5 tons of pellets, that's when the oil heat comes back on.
 
ttdberg said:
Not for me. The rule of thumb is a bag of pellets produces the same heat as 2.5 gallons of heating oil. 2.5 gallons @ $3.20 is $8. Just to break even with pellets, I would need to pay no more than $8 * 50 = $400/ton.
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Not sure this is correct. I may be wrong. In my experience, I used very close to a bag a day of pellets to heat our 2300sf home. During zero degree days I would go through a bag and a half, but average usage works out to one bag. That said, and using your estimate, I would go through a 250 gallon tank in 100 days. That means a delivery roughly every 3 1/2 months. Watching my neighbor this past season get oil deliveries every three weeks, I can tell you there is NO WAY, that I would ever be able to have a tankful last 100 days! Couple that with the fact that I keep our temps around 70-72 all season long, whereas oil gluggers will keep her steady right around 65, and cooler during the daytime when no one is home.
 
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I guess it boils down to every person's situation and way of looking at this is different. Like you, I go through roughly a bag a day, but I get the impression you burn the stove 24x7? Our stove is off when we are at work, so even with the thermostats turned down, I know the furnace is running to keep up with the cold - especially as frigid as last winter was. Regarding your neighbor's frequent deliveries - ouch! :) I suppose it's possible they were getting topped off each time, not getting a full 250 gallons every visit - but I understand your point. Maybe they have terrible insulation, maybe not. Maybe they do like to keep their oil heat thermostats at 75, who knows? :)
 
KMinNH said:
Are the Golds just a new name for the Black Hills Heat? I used BHH's last year and thought they were pretty good. I tried to search on Okanagan Gold with little success.
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Everyone is wondering what's in the Okanagan bag. Okanagan does not produce any pellets themselves for the Northeast U.S. They used to, but they have lost their rail siding and can no longer load bulk to have it packaged in New England. They are buying pellets from other producers and putting them in Okanagan bags. You cannot use their test results, as they are NOT Okanagan pellets in those bags. Okanagan produces a good pellet. We know the Gold are southern yellow pine, but we don't know what pellets are in the red bag or the doug fir bag.
 
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I usually get my pellets from a lumber store but when I called to see if they were going to have a pre season sale I was told that they were having trouble getting them, I had more than they had. That raised red flags since I live in a rural low pop area so I called our local co-op and they had stock and they were on sale so I bought my winter supply and am ready for winter, had a foot of snow yesterday!!! Only drawback was that I had to go get them and stack them myself instead of having the lumber company deliver and take the pallet off with a forklift, lol. At least I got some exercise.
 
stmar said:
I usually get my pellets from a lumber store but when I called to see if they were going to have a pre season sale I was told that they were having trouble getting them, I had more than they had. That raised red flags since I live in a rural low pop area so I called our local co-op and they had stock and they were on sale so I bought my winter supply and am ready for winter, had a foot of snow yesterday!!! Only drawback was that I had to go get them and stack them myself instead of having the lumber company deliver and take the pallet off with a forklift, lol. At least I got some exercise.
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I bet your new supply source is going to be low very soon. Glad it was you getting the snow not me. 38F this AM:( Trying to get the Harman to finish trying to digest a bag of Penningtons, have had two bridges stop the stove now.
 
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19 here this morning, mentally not ready but physically prepared: propane full, pellets stacked, freezer full, new battery bank. I did get the feeling that the guys at the lumber company were expecting a shortage and that is why I did not wait for them, I am loyal but not stupid, lol.
 
stmar said:
19 here this morning, mentally not ready but physically prepared: propane full, pellets stacked, freezer full, new battery bank. I did get the feeling that the guys at the lumber company were expecting a shortage and that is why I did not wait for them, I am loyal but not stupid, lol.
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Where in Wyoming are you ? Ive visited MT&Wy, both would be on my short list for retirement.
 
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