Outside air kits

stoveguy2esw · Sep 19, 2014

Elfmaze said:
Yeah a noob mistake for sure bringing it up. I apologize. I was more taken back by the dealers distaste for outside air feeds and was looking to verify that the dealers are idiots.

no need to apologize, i agree with Owen , its probably a good topic to "sticky" in the top of the pellet room. it does get a lot of traffic every season , but IMHO its not a bad thing to have a fresh thread on it every now and again.

lessoil · Sep 19, 2014

IMHO
Why heat the air with the stove then throw it outside???

midfielder · Sep 19, 2014

I hate to think that I don't trust a word that comes out of the dealers mouth.quote said:
Well, don't they want to sell you more pellets?

Harvey Schneider · Sep 19, 2014

Elfmaze said:
Yeah a noob mistake for sure bringing it up. I apologize. I was more taken back by the dealers distaste for outside air feeds and was looking to verify that the dealers are idiots.

I didn't mean to sound condescending. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there is a lot of good information buried in the old threads and it is unlikely that you will get all of it repeated in a new thread.

By the way, I don't know if most of the installers out there are stupid, uninformed (ignorant), or just lazy when it comes to OAK kits. I have a suspicion that the installation of an OAK costs them more in labor than they can charge for it.

BrotherBart · Sep 19, 2014

Lots of repeated topics around here. One of the charms of this place. We don't do "Goggle is your friend." or "RTFM".

If it wasn't for repeated topics the pellet room would contain four threads a year and the wood shed would have six. ;lol

yrock87 · Sep 20, 2014

BrotherBart said:
Lots of repeated topics around here. One of the charms of this place. We don't do "Goggle is your friend." or "RTFM".

If it wasn't for repeated topic the pellet room would contain four threads a year and the wood shed would have six.

But those threads would be riveting! Right??? :cool:

dhall28 · Sep 20, 2014

There are cons to using an oak. Added steps in troubleshooting are required when it is an air flow issues, it is another pipe that can get clogged and you wont always know where and some people tape/silicone them on and its just another thing to deal with and make sure bugs and other things don't get in and clog it. Some climates are much damper than others and using an oak can increase the speed of the inside of the stove rusting. On some stoves it can cause burn issues when the outside temp gets very very cold, and there is no free lunch, if you heat the outside air you still are going to be losing BTU's in the fire for that purpose, again no free lunch in life, yes I believe there can be a percentage point or two of efficiency gain but to some its not worth it, there are cons, especially for homeowners who don't put a rag in them for the months of the year when not in use and they wonder why there stove is so rusty and a bunch of stink bugs clogged their intake....if you want an OAK I say go for it and I think OAKs most definitely have their place and used correctly are a good thing, just don't go bashing other people and dealers who have a different perspective.

SmokeyTheBear · Sep 20, 2014

Harvey Schneider said:
It seems like this is an annual discussion. Does anybody bother to search for existing threads on the subject?

Of course not, this a question that is raised many times a heating season.

thundercracker · Sep 20, 2014

Do you need an OAK for an insert vented through the chimney liner?

Harvey Schneider · Sep 20, 2014

thundercracker said:
Do you need an OAK for an insert vented through the chimney liner?

An insert still pulls combustion air from it's immediate surroundings. Without an OAK that is from the room it is attached to.
In the case of my MVAE insert the OAK is a pipe straight out the back of the chimney chase with a bug cap on the outside. The total length of the OAK is about 20".

SmokeyTheBear · Sep 20, 2014

BrotherBart said:
Lots of repeated topics around here. One of the charms of this place. We don't do "Goggle is your friend." or "RTFM".

If it wasn't for repeated topics the pellet room would contain four threads a year and the wood shed would have six.

Err.. please elaborate the reason that webbie allows a search function for the forum plus allowing the never hungry bandwidth consuming and response slowing search engine robots on the site?

Google can be your friend and you should RTFM (can't let that one get by).

BrotherBart · Sep 20, 2014

SmokeyTheBear said:
Err.. please elaborate the reason that webbie allows a search function for the forum plus allowing the never hungry bandwidth consuming and response slowing search engine robots on the site?

To accommodate the thousands of folks that find what they want to know without signing up as members. And don't want to post pics of their dog or cat.

SmokeyTheBear · Sep 20, 2014

BrotherBart said:
To accommodate the thousands of folks that find what they want to know without signing up as members. And don't want to post pics of their dog or cat.

Sure, sure, now that is fine for interweb newbies but some of us won't fall for that one BB.

Now without them search engine robots site response would be faster and you wouldn't get so many non converts on the advertisers ad clicks.

Now what do you have against RTFM since in one boatload of cases that manual you got with the stove is what counts especially when it comes to installation, insurance companies, and code inspectors.

Elfmaze · Sep 21, 2014

So seems most of the difficulties with the OAK reside in cold air drifting in when the stove is not on and moisture getting in during rainy seasons. Couldn't both problems be solved by using a large ball valve of sorts where the OAK passes through the wall? Yeah a large valve will cost $40-50, but if it makes it easy to isolate the system, sounds worth it to me... For that matter, if you ran PVC(maby a small metal section last few feet to stove) from the wall to the stove wouldn't that make the condensation and freezing problems less. The flexible wall dryer vent has corrugated walls... I would think the smooth walled PVC would flow better.

Harvey Schneider · Sep 21, 2014

Elfmaze said:
So seems most of the difficulties with the OAK reside in cold air drifting in when the stove is not on and moisture getting in during rainy seasons.

I believe that most of the complaints are about condensation on the outside of the OAK once it is inside the house. This only happens if the OAK surface temperature drops below the dewpoint of the air inside the house.
The OAK on both my stoves is close coupled to the stove and no cold air can enter the house whether the stove is on or off.
I have never had a problem with rain entering the OAK. The one on my ESW has a shanty cap on top of it, and the one on my MVAE has a stainless lean-to on the surface it exits through.
Moisture entering off season is an issue, but I simply tie a plastic bag around the outside caps for the warm seasons. It's not any more difficult than turning a ball valve and it doesn't cost me anything.

TimfromMA · Sep 21, 2014

Or you could put in a bucket of DampRid in the stove when it's not in use.

Renjilj · Sep 21, 2014

Hello all- question about how long an OAK can be? I will be installing an insert soon in a FP and was thinking of running the flex for the OAK through the cleanout in bottom of the FP. It would need to go down about 6' to bottom, then be routed up about 8' to nearest window (about 14' total). Is this too long/restrictive? Do I even need to consider an OAK for an insert, or save the dough...

Harvey Schneider · Sep 21, 2014

Renjilj said:
Hello all- question about how long an OAK can be? I will be installing an insert soon in a FP and was thinking of running the flex for the OAK through the cleanout in bottom of the FP. It would need to go down about 6' to bottom, then be routed up about 8' to nearest window (about 14' total). Is this too long/restrictive? Do I even need to consider an OAK for an insert, or save the dough...

The longer it is the larger the diameter has to be. Otherwise resistance to air flow becomes a problem. It also sounds like you would have a lot of bends and turns which add to the flow resistance. If you are considering corrugated duct, that also adds substantially to air flow resistance.
I'm thinking that is probably not a great solution to the problem.
Inserts are no different than free standing stoves when it comes to air supply. I would always prefer an OAK but sometimes it is not practical.
Remember also that the OAK must end above the snow line.

Renjilj · Sep 21, 2014

Thanks Harvey, neighbor to the East!

Good point to note about the bends and snow line. It would be at least 2-90's and I would have to run a PVC riser outside as it would be exiting a typical basement casement window at floor level. Prob adding another 90 and several more feet of length. Flex would be easiest but not ideal? What kind of diameters are we talking about?

Harvey Schneider · Sep 21, 2014

Renjilj said:
Thanks Harvey, neighbor to the East!

Good point to note about the bends and snow line. It would be at least 2-90's and I would have to run a PVC riser outside as it would be exiting a typical basement casement window at floor level. Prob adding another 90 and several more feet of length. Flex would be easiest but not ideal? What kind of diameters are we talking about?

Start with this link

https://www.hearth.com/talk/posts/1758292/

I think that you should check with your owners manual for vent length and diameter requirements. If you can't find it there check the manufacturer's website.
The OAK and vent are in series and the combined length should be kept in mind when choosing a diameter for the OAK.

wolfie770 · Sep 21, 2014

Harvey Schneider said:
It seems like this is an annual discussion. Does anybody bother to search for existing threads on the subject?

New stove owners have a right to ask what they want. You don't have to read it. Most on here are more than willing to help out with any questions. I believe that is what this forum is for.

Elfmaze · Sep 21, 2014

Plus think of how dead it would get if noone brough tup the obvious questions... And it gives you a chance to sound smart if you know the answers from the past years!

Harvey Schneider · Sep 21, 2014

Elfmaze said:
Plus think of how dead it would get if noone brough tup the obvious questions... And it gives you a chance to sound smart if you know the answers from the past years!

Why have a thread history and search engine if nobody is going to use it.
I agree that everybody has the right to ask naieve questions. I also think that most of us would benefit from browsing the old threads before we start asking our naieve questions. We would learn more that way.

BrotherBart · Sep 21, 2014

And I think if I see a post ragging on somebody for asking a repeat question, that post is gonna get deleted.

BrotherBart · Sep 21, 2014

End of discussion.

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