Burning pine questions

Insects will get between the bark of any species. Pine is not exclusive to this issue.

Grisu said:

I see. What happens in Long Island, stays in Long Island.

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Hey, I've used that guy, and he's pretty cheap, but I don't think he's sinning as much as he sins for Dixie when he sells me firewood. Also just: for the record, Grisu, the proper regional term is on Long Island.

I thought the proper term was Lawng Ialand..... Damn New Yawkas

I feel silly. after hurricane sandy blew threw central jersey almost 2 years ago people had pine rounds from blown down trees stacked up at the curb for months waiting for the city and state trucks to come and haul it away. Most people around here wouldn't even think about burning pine because of all the myths about chiminy fires. Too bad i wasn't a student of wood burning 2 years ago. I could have had a lifetime of free wood. Wish i knew were they dumped all that stuff.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, maybe I am ignorant, I will give you that, but I will only burn pine outside, don't hate me all, I have access to a lot of hard wood and I have seen how fresh pine burns differently in my outdoor fireplace, it's like when I burn my Christmas tree, it goes up in fast flames.....
So, if you don't NEED to, then I say don't......use it for the pit......
Now, if I really needed to, I wood.....

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here, maybe I am ignorant, I will give you that, but I will only burn pine outside, don't hate me all, I have access to a lot of hard wood and I have seen how fresh pine burns differently in my outdoor fireplace, it's like when I burn my Christmas tree, it goes up in fast flames.....
So, if you don't NEED to, then I say don't......use it for the pit......
Now, if I really needed to, I wood.....

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I never wanted to suggest that pine is supposed to replace hardwood (when you have access to it) but it has its place like startups and shoulder season fires. When I come home to a cold house and stove, I have not found anything better than pine yet to get the stove cranking again quickly.

Put it this way:

Plenty more pine burners will be warm this season compaired to hardwood users.

As many have pointed out, there are many in the Western US, Canada & Alaska that burn pine, fir etc, as that is all they have. And they get through some serious cold, just fine.

I love pine, hot fires, quick seasoning, lasts over 5 hours, minimal coaling, Id be screwed if I had to season for 2 plus years! I can drive out into the grocery store called the canadian rockies and go along with my shopping cart and say I will take a bit of that lodgepole with a sprinkling of cedar for start ups and do some over night burning with some fir and go for the gold with the larch and maybe if im feeling frisky throw some birch into the cart!

I think I saw this theory here on hearth.com.
People burn hardwoods but gunk up there chimney with poor burning practices and/or green wood.
Then they get some pine, which burns hotter and faster than they're used to.
The gunk in their chimney ignites and becomes a chimney fire.
They decide that pine causes chimney fires.

There isn't a lot of pine on this side of the cascades but we do burn a lot of fir. This year I will actually use some caution with some of my fir. I have some old growth that has about a 1-1.5" layer of pitch between the heartwood and sapwoood. I'll mix it with other wood to avoid so much sap igniting at one time. But it is fun when the sap heats up and shoots flames on the glass.

Always amazed at the fellow posters who still insist we shouldn't burn pine despite the overwhelming majority who post that it isn't a problem. Notice the complete lack of evidence when they do so too. At least Ram 1500 admitted his info might be due to ignorance.

Yes my father in law was a myth passer to me a few weekends ago when he was insisting that Pine will cause chimney fires. He also with a straight face informed me that pine is the only wood that produces Creosote. And that people out west only burn a special pine that does not cause creosote???? Mind you this is a legitimately intelligent man who is very schooled in every possible ways of doing things.(in a good way)

We have tons of pine up here in NNJ, no one wants this wood because A: there is a much better option of hard woods (you will pay for it though) B: the rumors are still prevalent about pine causing instant chimney fires. Here's the scoop; you can develop a higher concentration of creosote if you burn pine that is unseasoned, pine can be deceiving, you can cut it down green and split it, a couple months in the sun you can pick a piece up and it will feel very lite and dry, guess what, its probably not ready yet, the resins still need to dry out, I'm a little more cautious and would say give it at least a full year of drying time. The other part of burning pine, and I think this is were the myth of instant chimney fires came into play is - most people use there (good stuff) first, they run out of there precious hardwood at the end of February, they go to the gas station and pick up a bundle of pine or they go to there reserve / emergency wood pile that has bin sitting covered for 5 years and pull out some seasoned pine, they throw it in the stove, the wood takes off and wham, all that creosote that built up from the beginning of the season gets ignited, its not the pines fault; dry pine normally burns that way - hot and fast.

The easiest way to get Pine sap or pitch off your hands is with dry sawdust. Just rub it between your hands and the pesky stuff comes right off. North of here in the GWN White Birch usually takes over where an area has been logged. I know people who almost exclusively burn it...passing over all kinds of Pine and Spruce...bet they think it causes chimney fires too.
Fyi you can season a conifer till the end of time and you will never get rid of the natural resin that occurs in the wood. When I go north hunting or fishing I keep and eye out for old pine stumps that were the result of a forest fire that went through over well over one hundred years ago. I harvest the Canadian version of Fat Wood out of them for starting my fires....for free.

Pine has a higher BTU rating than hardwoods like oak (by weight) due to the pitch. And in some burning applications the things that make Pine and Fir a disadvantage flips and makes them advantageous, like in a masonry heater. In a wood stove a dense hardwood will burn much slower and longer. And since your heat is primarily coming from the fire radiating out through the thin metal it is best to have a slower burning fire.

But in a masonry heater the fire's energy is absorbed into the thermal mass (charging the mass), and than the mass radiates the heat out. So a hot quick fire is best. After a couple of hours the fire is out and the damper is closed. Closing the damper stops the escape of heat up the flue. If you were burning a denser wood (without pitch) you would have to wait a longer time for the fire to go out - thus losing more BTU's up the flue. The denser woods aren't an advantage like in a wood stove.

Interesting that masonry heaters originated in Northern Asia (Russia) and Europe (Germany, Finland, Norway and Sweden) where softwoods like pine and fir dominated.

This is my first year burning hemlock for the shoulder season and I'm impressed.
Quick hot fire, plenty of warmth without heating me out of the house.

Cut it down on the property before I had the stove a year and a half ago, split, stacked and covered it. Glad I did, it's perfect now.

Perhaps another advantage of pine? - People give it away.

So...

I found this thread last night and was learning from you guys that my old "knowledge" about burning pine passed down from my not-so-knowledgeable father might amount to a bunch of rumor and innuendo. Thought maybe I'll add some to the supply if there's some to be had cheaply. Went on CL, and literally as I was reading this thread someone 40 minutes away was posting that they had a full cord of free cut & split pine to give away to anyone who could haul.

And it just so happens that my wife's aunt left her new long bed Silverado here for the week...

Guy said its fresh C/S from a standing dead tree. I'll see what it looks like in an hour and a half...

I am going to try adding a couple pictures to my post. I pulled a random split of local spruce out of my wood shed a couple minutes ago, split it open and stuck my meter in the freshly exposed. This is a typical piece of spruce I am happy to shove in my combustor equipped stove. This would have ran just fine in the epa cert non-cat stove I used to own too. Its gonna burn hot, and its going to burn fast.

FWIW I dropped several spruces on Feb 27, 2014, had everything split and stacked on pallets and covered on top by April 15, 2014 and MC metered it this afternoon, Sep 28, 2014. The MC readings are typical of my experiences with the white and black spruce commonly found in Alaska.

Poindexter said:

I am going to try adding a couple pictures to my post. I pulled a random split of local spruce out of my wood shed a couple minutes ago, split it open and stuck my meter in the freshly exposed. This is a typical piece of spruce I am happy to shove in my combustor equipped stove. This would have ran just fine in the epa cert non-cat stove I used to own too. Its gonna burn hot, and its going to burn fast.

FWIW I dropped several spruces on Feb 27, 2014, had everything split and stacked on pallets and covered on top by April 15, 2014 and MC metered it this afternoon, Sep 28, 2014. The MC readings are typical of my experiences with the white and black spruce commonly found in Alaska.

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Man, if 5 months will get you down to low-mid teens, I wonder if I can get lucky by Dec on my pick up tonight which is metering in the 25-30 range. Probably not - I'll lay it up for late next fall.

NewStoveGuy said:

Man, if 5 months will get you down to low-mid teens, I wonder if I can get lucky by Dec on my pick up tonight which is metering in the 25-30 range. Probably not - I'll lay it up for late next fall.

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You might get lucky. Av seen Larch loose 10% in 3 month.

That's another thing, most hardwood burners regard any conifer type wood to be pine. Simply not true. Larch is only a few points behind Oak and Fir is only a point or two behind Larch.

20MBTU vs 24MBTU. Seems like a mugs game for that extra few mill.

I will burn spruce as well. Although not as pleasant to split.

NewStoveGuy said:

Man, if 5 months will get you down to low-mid teens, I wonder if I can get lucky by Dec on my pick up tonight which is metering in the 25-30 range. Probably not - I'll lay it up for late next fall.

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There's some variables I glossed over... 1. My pallets are up on cinderblocks so I have really good airflow under my stacks. 2. My stacks are out in the yard away from the house and away from fences. 3. I have a river about half mile to my east and a ridge crest about a mile to my west. I get consistent gentle breezes in both twilights. 4. I get about 20 hours of sunlight on Jun 21 here at 64 degrees north. 5. I covered my stacks with black plastic because that is what I had. The top two or three layers of splits in my stacks were under 20% MC in early June when my new stove was delivered.

6. On the other hand, local ambients did not stay above freezing over night until early May, I dropped about three cords of spruce on Feb 27th and had all of it split and stacked before spring thaw.

Air flow and sunshine, it's all about airflow and sunshine. If you get out in the open, stack real open for best airflow, cover it with a clear plastic something like a mini greenhouse; but leave the bottom foot or so open for good air turnover and get a little lucky on the weather you might could burn it by Christmas...

NewStoveGuy said:

someone 40 minutes away was posting that they had a full cord of free cut & split pine to give away...

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That is the great thing about free pine, quite often... people will cut it and split it for you. That makes up for the lower BTUs (by volume) that would normally make pine not seem worth the extra handling per BTU. Once I even saw a guy willing to deliver locally... free wood delivered free is hard to pass up!

Although I burn a fair amount of white pine, I seldom bother with it when it's green, heavy and sappy, or at all hard to access... I am quite aware when lugging big, heavy rounds that much of what I'm carrying is water, not wood. Right now I have easy access to a pile of thick, 5-year old slabs... the ones deep in the pile can be very heavy with water, but dry out quickly. Once dry, working them up is a breeze. And that's what I burn in Oct/Nov.

I like mixing softwoods with hardwoods to help get things cranking. Especially a full load of locust can at times be sluggish to start. If I mix a split of pine strategically laid on the coal bed, then it gets the whole load going much faster.