New guy here with questions

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bags

Minister of Fire
Oct 12, 2014
2,408
Kentucky
Hello All,
I am looking at the Harman P68 and also the Enviro M55 or Maxx. Multi fuel?? I am wanting to heat 2,200 sq. ft. The home is a two story with a fairly open floor plan on both floors but lots of good windows and glass doors. 2 x 6 exterior walls with R-19. Insulated pretty well but could always stand improvement. There are vaulted ceilings.

I have a Wood Master 5500 that heats the house, hot water, barn, and garages. Looking to cut down on wood use especially at the beginning and end of the heating season. It is hard for me to use a lot of wood when the temps are still fairly warm but the house does get chilled. It is currently 62 in here. My wife hates the cold and is miserable at anything less than 72 degrees. But we have an agreement that the heating season starts when the house can not maintain a constant 60. She watches the stat like a hawk! Way back when I was a bachelor I had much lower standards and would let it go but usually caved in once it was 50 inside. I hate paying the electric co-op. I am out in the country and my only choices for heat are: Expensive cold electric heat (almost worthless in my opinion, like paying a bunch to stay miserably cold) , pricey propane or oil with constantly fluctuating prices, wood, or pellets. I will likely fire up the Lopi insert today to get the temp up.

I AM going to buy a pellet stove this coming week and install it myself. Pellets seem to be easy to find locally and are $4.00 to $4.25 for a 40 lb. bag. I will probably buy 3 tons or 3 skids this week.I am a contractor and feel the install and maintenance will be easy for me to do. I am no pellet pro (yet) but really like what I am seeing and hearing about these stoves.

Would possibly like to heat all season on pellets but the Wood Master toasts the place up quite nicely. I have researched numerous stoves and am leaning to the Enviro or Harman. Although more costly, they seem to be of good quality and possibly perform the best. Any thoughts or opinions here?

What are anyone's recommendations? What's the best bang for the buck? Things to look out for and simple things to know or understand regarding pellet stoves. I am open to ANY & ALL suggestions. I have never had a pellet stove but have heated with wood for some time. It's a lot of work! I also have a Lopi wood insert but dragging wood into the house and the fact that most of the heat goes up the chimney makes me not use it as much. More for entertainment and staring at a fire which I love.
 
The sticky posts when you first open the pellet forum have a wealth of information that will answer some of your questions. Search by stove and model number and you'll come across much information on the stoves you mentioned as well as going economical in terms of your purchase. It's a great forum with tons of info so enjoy.
 
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I have gone through 2.the enviro I had was used and was a nightmare.basically got rid if it for scarp metal.my reseach for a stove that's mechanical easy to do a ton cleaning and can eat up junk pellets(the enviro was sensitive certain pellets it didn't like)I found the harman p35i.So far loving it.what ever you choose good luck
 
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I will be buying a new stove. Looked at some used but not many around and mostly older models with known problems. What I have seen looked like a nightmare in waiting. Probably exactly what Ctcarl dealt with. I do not have the time nor patience for troubles. I am looking mainly for reliability and ease of use. I do not like constant problems and can justify the expense for good quality and operation. Another words, I am willing to pay out for a better stove and less hassle. You get what you pay for holds true for me and I have read about many unhappy pellet stove owners covering many makes and models. Even some with Harman and Enviro but not many complaints. Also read some rave reviews on the "cheaper" stoves with highly satisfied owners who spent a lot less. That would be nice but I don't feel like taking chances. There were too many unhappy campers in relation to the few happy campers.

Sure I would like to find a good dependable lightly used stove for half price but that is not what my search has produced. I will look at the stickys and research here (Thanks!). I have researched the web pretty extensively which makes the decisions more mind boggling. I have a guy (Enviro dealer locally) and he has used his for 11 seasons without any problems. Loves it! I also have a friend that is a hardcore Harman stove guy. Loves his! He learned the hard way at first and bought a "cheap" pellet insert. His first one he spent more time messing with than it did heating his home. None stop problems and he said it never seemed to work well straight out of the box which I have seen many others say as well.

Another key factor is customer support and parts availability. I do like the fact that Harman are US made. Enviro being from Canada is close enough for consideration as well. Also looking for ease of maintenance and being able to work on the stove. A stove that can handle more abuse and neglect possibly. I do maintain my stuff but I expect durability. I also understand that once you get a unit it seems you are pretty much on your own and have to figure a lot out for yourself like I found out with my Wood Master 5500. The dealer went out of business quickly. However, Wood Master has excellent support and are only a phone call away. I did my own install with a small amount of help from the guy I purchased it from and all of my service work since new with a small bit of guidance from Wood Master.

I have also contacted other dealers of Enviro and Harman in KY or close by and most seem fairly clueless about what they were selling with a couple of exceptions. Going to a pool and spa shop to buy a pellet stove just doesn't swing well with me. Especially, when I could tell they didn't know what they were talking about and I know very little at this point myself. I definitely want someone that knows about them and can answer some questions. I am sure this forum will be my biggest support and likely the best source for good and accurate info and experiences.
 
Go with the Harman. Easiest stove to maintain. Download the user manuals for the stoves you are looking at. This way you can compare what it's like to own each one. Hope this helps.
 
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Thanks and excellent idea JDenyer236! I really need to do an educated assessment and compare everything about the two. I can get a better deal price wise on the Enviro Maxx but that is not my main concern and like the optional plenum add on to tie into an existing forced air system. I am literally torn between the Harman P65 and the Enviro Maxx!!!!! Both have very good reviews and even more so with the Harman stoves from what I have seen. I do not mind spending more as long as it is worth it.
 
Go with the Harman. Easiest stove to maintain. Download the user manuals for the stoves you are looking at. This way you can compare what it's like to own each one. Hope this helps.
X2 you will love the harman.compare it to the other stoves and it will be an easy decision for you
 
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Everyone I know recommended a Harman and are raving fans.. so I bought a Harman. Im a raving fan too. The unique features they have over other stoves is worth it IMO.
 
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Go easy with all the harman praise or the enviro guys will come in and crash the party. ::P
 
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I don't have any of the stoves that you're looking at, so I can't truly chime in there.

However, I do have a 2400 sq ft colonial, with R13 walls, and live in a cooler area than you do. I'm heating it with a Englander 10 CPM, which is rated at 52K btu. It's a big enough stove till it gets cold AND windy. Then I have to run it full blast and fire up propane. There's a St Croix going in the basement to fix that problem. Anyway, the point of the story was to steer you away from the Maxx, only because I think it's lots move stove than you need. It's going to be hungrier and louder than the M55 or harman, or so I'm told. The big blower on the Maxx is apparently pretty loud. If you're putting it in the basement and ducting it, then nevermind. If you're putting it in the living room, go for the quietest stove possible.

That's all assuming you're still gonna have the wood eater. If not, then go big or go home my friend.
 
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My Harman p43 had no problems heating my home in April (one of the coldest on record in Pa). My home was built in 1863 and has absolutely no insulation in the walls, still has original windows in 75 % of the house. It's approx 1800 square feet. This is the only pellet stove I have ever owned and I refuse to speak ill of other brands. Just happy with what I have.
 
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Thanks for the input everyone! I will be keeping the Fire Breathing Dragon (aka: Wood Master 5500) but want to limit the use as much as possible. I think I do want a stove that will heat the entire 2,200-2,300 SQ FT to a comfortable 70-74 degrees during the entire heating season too. I might not have to go so big on the MAXX or even the P68???? The P61A or M55 would likely heat everything well even during the harsh cold snaps. I do want to make sure I am covered to where I would not need the Wood Master but would could still fire it up during the colder weather and likely will. It sucks going out to load it before bed in the cold after a relaxing warm couch hold down session. I do like my outdoor boiler but I do not like feeding the dragon because it does like to eat some wood.

Winters here are a bit warmer than up north and N. East. I am 30 miles SW of Cincinnati, Ohio and 55 miles north of Lexington, KY. It gets colder here than further south in KY. Not Minnesota cold but pretty darn miserably cold. It really depends on if we catch the jet stream from the Gulf of Mexico or get blasted from the Great Lakes and it can change in an instant. I have a guy coming Monday (today) to look over what I have here and what I want to accomplish just for his input and thoughts. He is one of the dealers. Also taking a drive to discuss what I have with another dealer with photos and floor plan drawings.

I am just not very familiar with the pellet stoves capabilities. I am also sure that a P43, P45, or an EF3 could take the brunt of everything to a large degree until it gets cold, cold on a consistent basis. I do like the multi fuel option for numerous reasons even if I only burn pellets. These are the variables I am trying to get figured out. With these smaller unites I could heat a long while and then just go to the Wood Master to blast the heat. I would also like the option to stay on pellets for the wife if I am out of town for work and it happens to get very cold. Tossing 40 lb. bags in here and there is much easier than throwing cord wood into a wheel barrow and pushing it thru snow although I can also stack wood right by the door next to the boiler. When it gets nasty I like keeping the wood inside the barn for obvious reasons. I usually back my dump truck in and dump leaving it in a pile. Less handling.

I have read this forum all day and night and discovered many other things to consider. My eyes hurt and the brain is cooked! Is Harman still forcing owners to deal with the dealer you buy it from for parts and service? That's one thing and about the only thing I don't like about Harmans. The closet dealer is 45 plus miles away and they could bale out. Then I am going farther. The Enviro has a dealer that is easy to access and closer about 15-20 miles but he is a one man show and a small time shop which is not a bad thing until he decides to hang it up (older guy). Just reflecting on what I dealt with on the boiler.

I do have my picks narrowed to the Harman or Enviro and it is a tough choice. I can work on these stoves without much trouble but I might need parts. Is there any good after market support to just by pass Harman on parts? Same for Enviro? I just need a good stove and access to what I might need down the road. Also have the option of less expensive stoves and more money for some shiny new tools to wrench on them. This is my least favorite pick. I want heat and not another new wrench turning hobby. Have plenty of projects to work on as it is.
 
Another variable I need to throw out is my house is bigger than the 2,200-2,300 SQ FT. The layout is different and somewhat compartmentalized. All said and done the entire house is 4,500 plus SQ FT and that is not counting two lofts above one area. I am primarily looking to heat the center core where we generally hang out. For now anyways. That is the 2,300 SQ FT with an open floor plan of a foyer, living room, eat in kitchen, dining nook, 2 full baths, 3 bedrooms. Each floor is 1150 SQ FT at this portion of the house and open except bedroom doors that can stay open. I can move air around here very well even between the two levels. No basement or similar to a ranch with a basement but with walk outs and numerous windows both front and rear walls all along the lower level. Or like slab on grade two story. It is a very different house that I have done some wild stuff with. Probably need to post pics.

The other areas are a big master bedroom suite with a laundry, large bath, large walk in closets, sitting area, bedroom, and two lofts above. This is still under construction. Framed and closed under roof with doors and windows. I am a contractor and do design-build. My stuff always comes last and the wife's patience is wearing thin. Plus she is getting cold...... since I have not had to turn any heat on yet. LOL! The house gained a couple of degrees today pushing me farther from her 60 degree redline. I think she was a little chapped today when she was hawk eyeing the stat and it was reading 65. NICE!! She also loves it when I tell her to bundle up a little more if your cold because summer is over.

There is also a 1,200 SQ FT great room on the other end. This will be finished soon.......I hope! Otherwise, I'm likely to have the wife swinging a ball bat at me. Holiday crunch if you know what I mean. I may go with more than one stove in different areas too but tend to like to simplify when possible. This is also why I am entertaining the bigger units like the MAXX, MAXX-M, and the P68. This would throw more heat and I could add small stoves in the other areas mentioned upon completion as needed.
 
Us St Croix people get lost in the mix.
 
One thing about the P series Harman's, you can feed them any pellet on the market and they will burn them. You might not like the mess some of those pellets make but a P61 or P68 will burn them. I met a guy at HD , we were looking at pellets together and he said Oh don't buy those your stove will choke up on them. I said I haven't had a pellet that bad yet. He asked what stove I had , Harman P61 was my answer. He said oh, well you can burn anything in that and that he had bought an Enviro but wishes he bought a Harman. He stated that his next stove will be a Harman in fact. I've never heard a Harman owner say they wish they had bought another brand stove, not yet anyway. I'm not here to bash other brands but the evidence is pretty strong that Harman owners are a pretty happy camp. Others are too and not everyone wants to shell out for a Harman, that's fully understandable. Just sayin.

But, a 2200 Sq Ft house in Kentucky ? A P61a should do fine. Get a P68 if you want to but the P61 should be fine all season. I'm using mine now, it's 52 deg outside, my dining room is 72 and the stove just shut itself off. Last winter when it was 0 outside my dining room was 73 deg. Last night was 39 deg, the dining room was 73 deg. We had a frosty morning here a few days ago, the dining room was 73 deg.Back in March when it was 27 outside my dining room was 73 deg. The difference being how many bags of pellets it burns. Any pellet stove on a thermostat that has self lighting ignition will do this as well, just that Harman has it down. But that's the difference between pellets and wood burning I guess.
 
Another variable I need to throw out is my house is bigger than the 2,200-2,300 SQ FT. The layout is different and somewhat compartmentalized. All said and done the entire house is 4,500 plus SQ FT and that is not counting two lofts above one area. I am primarily looking to heat the center core where we generally hang out. For now anyways. That is the 2,300 SQ FT with an open floor plan of a foyer, living room, eat in kitchen, dining nook, 2 full baths, 3 bedrooms. Each floor is 1150 SQ FT at this portion of the house and open except bedroom doors that can stay open. I can move air around here very well even between the two levels. No basement or similar to a ranch with a basement but with walk outs and numerous windows both front and rear walls all along the lower level. Or like slab on grade two story. It is a very different house that I have done some wild stuff with. Probably need to post pics.

The other areas are a big master bedroom suite with a laundry, large bath, large walk in closets, sitting area, bedroom, and two lofts above. This is still under construction. Framed and closed under roof with doors and windows. I am a contractor and do design-build. My stuff always comes last and the wife's patience is wearing thin. Plus she is getting cold...... since I have not had to turn any heat on yet. LOL! The house gained a couple of degrees today pushing me farther from her 60 degree redline. I think she was a little chapped today when she was hawk eyeing the stat and it was reading 65. NICE!! She also loves it when I tell her to bundle up a little more if your cold because summer is over.

There is also a 1,200 SQ FT great room on the other end. This will be finished soon.......I hope! Otherwise, I'm likely to have the wife swinging a ball bat at me. Holiday crunch if you know what I mean. I may go with more than one stove in different areas too but tend to like to simplify when possible. This is also why I am entertaining the bigger units like the MAXX, MAXX-M, and the P68. This would throw more heat and I could add small stoves in the other areas mentioned upon completion as needed.
Well this info changes everything.
 
Well this info changes everything.
I can't help what the guy said ! But I know I wasn't telling him I wish I had not bought a Harman. Who knows what model he even has, he didn't say and I didn't ask.
 
That's one of the reasons I went with a Harman too. That and my dad's stove
will stop burning pellets if you don't clear the ash out of the burn pot. With the
Harman pushing the pellets out it will force ash out. I wanted something that
didn't require a lot to worry about, and I got that.

I know brand following go back and forth, but I think it's helpful to point out the
flaws in each. He knows about the cost difference and having to deal with dealers*
so those are the only two cons I've heard of Harman.

*it should be noted you can order parts off Amazon
 
That's one of the reasons I went with a Harman too. That and my dad's stove
will stop burning pellets if you don't clear the ash out of the burn pot. With the
Harman pushing the pellets out it will force ash out. I wanted something that
didn't require a lot to worry about, and I got that.

I know brand following go back and forth, but I think it's helpful to point out the
flaws in each. He knows about the cost difference and having to deal with dealers*
so those are the only two cons I've heard of Harman.

*it should be noted you can order parts off Amazon
Tim I did about a good 5 monthsof research myself before getting my stove .knock on wood very happy with my decision of the harman:)
 
That's one of the reasons I went with a Harman too. That and my dad's stove
will stop burning pellets if you don't clear the ash out of the burn pot. With the
Harman pushing the pellets out it will force ash out. I wanted something that
didn't require a lot to worry about, and I got that.

I know brand following go back and forth, but I think it's helpful to point out the
flaws in each. He knows about the cost difference and having to deal with dealers*
so those are the only two cons I've heard of Harman.

*it should be noted you can order parts off Amazon
My wife and I took about 2 months to decide on Harman. we looked a the options from about 4 dealers, then looked at inserts vs free standing, then cast vs steel stoves. We bought the P61 for the added reserve power and ease of cleaning. We wanted to buy one stove one time, the P series are rated pretty much bullet proof.
 
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Thanks Again All! To clarify my goal is to heat the 2,300 SQ FT primarily. Maybe more if it can be worked out. It is the areas of the house where we tend to hang during the fall and winter months. I can still heat the great room and master bed areas easy enough. There is radiant floor heat BUT again I need the smoking dragon to spit fire. I am trying to cage the dragon so bear with me here.

Yes, Mr. Spock Ugh OOHH! These Harman peeps are fishing heavy duty here. If you all can not tell the hook is beginning to sink in. Where are all these Enviro guys? Sell me one. I like them too! I actually started my research last year and then bailed out after several months due to work and having to go out of town for a job. I have been back looking again for awhile and am ready to make something happen. I have kicked the dead dog long enough. Wife has been out back taking practice swings and stretching with the ball bat.

OK, all of you in the Harman Clan with P68's, P61's, XXV's, P45's, and P43's I would like to know what you are heating SQ FT'age, levels, etc; and how many 40 lb. bags per day or a season's average in tons to heat with these units. I have options but have major interest in theP68 and P61 models just like the M55 and MAXX's. I know what pellets will cost and also what cord wood runs around here delivered. I have plenty myself but it is time and work. My goal is to cut my cord wood usage down to 30% or less. OR to zero eventually.

I see where many are using between 2 to 4 tons per year. If these 68's and 61's use 2 bags per day "on average" let's say (24 hrs.) then that is $300 per month in pellets. I can have wood delivered and stacked for $85 for a rick or 1/3 of a cord and enjoy a beer watching the younger guys stack it. Sounds good to me! However,I have several chainsaws, a splitter, tractor, and trucks. I do my own wood but to put things in perspective I will look at wood like pellets for a "fair" comparison.

I will burn about a 1/3 of a cord in the worst case scenario per week. 4 x $85 = $340 per month. Not much more than pellets and that is with me BUYING my wood. My goal is to cut down to $150 or so in fuel costs along with less work. At a bag per day cost would be $120 -$150 per month. Very realistic goal especially, when it is not brutally cold for 2/3rds of the heating season based on heating October thru March.

I want some fair and honest pellet usage folks! No sugar coating or fairy tales. Santa won't be swinging by dropping my stove off for free. Tell it like it is PLEASE. I do not need to wear rose colored glass nor gulp a big fancy glass of the Kool-Aid. Shoot it short and straight. I am going to pull the trigger and have done my home work but would like to prepare for worst case scenario.
 
I live in central MA and like to keep an area roughly 1800 Sq ft at 68 - 70 degrees. I average 3.5 tons of pellets per year. Over the course of an entire heating season, I average about one bag per day. On the coldest of days, I can go as much as 2 bags per day but one is my average.
 
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I heat 2250 sq Ft with a p43 and it will do the job nicely. I'm also well insulated. During the coldest week of last year I had the Propane furnace running as the primary heat and the Harman as the backup. Propane was set at 65 for night and Harman at 62. Woke up to below zero outside and the P43 running. Furnace blew the igniter and the P43 was keeping the house at 63. Cranked it up to 70 and by the afternoon the furthest part of the house was up to 66. Kept it that way for 3 days till I got another igniter.
 
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