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Be also aware that for getting the warm air up the cold air needs a way to get down, too.

Yeeeep. Is there anything against code having one (or more) ducts near the corners of the house with fans to pull cold air down into the basement?
 
Well, I am going to be in a milder climate than you and I will be having R25 in the walls, so in my circumstances the PES27 should be fine. If money isn't an issue -- I'll change my opinion to you should get the larger PE.
 
Sound like I am being pushed toward the larger stove. Does anyone think having the larger stove would be any kind of problem, if not fired to full potential?

Also thanks for the heads up on the cold air needing to get back to the lower level. I pictured the warm air from the stove rising up the staircase, but hadn't considered the colder air needing to return.

My furnace will have an ECM fan, which is capable of turning at VERY low speeds. What about letting it run? That should constantly circulate air, without creating a drafty feeling.
 
Nice to see all the Canucks coming out of the woodwork on this one. And great to see a 'local' on here, Pembroke here, and just got married in Calabogie in July.

I agree with Swedish, no matter what you will never regret buying the bigger stove... though come Jan-Feb you may regret a smaller stove I know I do.

I have an 1100sqf Bungalow and my Regency i2400 at 2.3cf Upstairs is just barely enough and only after I blew in r50 in my attic. I have a freestanding in the basement so that helps but doesn't sounds like you want two. House is older, what I wouldn't give for R25 in my walls though. I've just got the old style Rock Wool like R8-R10.
Married in calabogie, awesome been there, get more insulation in your house best investment ever.
 
Sound like I am being pushed toward the larger stove. Does anyone think having the larger stove would be any kind of problem, if not fired to full potential?

Also thanks for the heads up on the cold air needing to get back to the lower level. I pictured the warm air from the stove rising up the staircase, but hadn't considered the colder air needing to return.

My furnace will have an ECM fan, which is capable of turning at VERY low speeds. What about letting it run? That should constantly circulate air, without creating a drafty feeling.


No expertise, just 45 yr. of heating solely with wood stoves. Yes, without some air circulation [blowing upstairs air down into the "basement", for example], you are likely to have a nice, toasty basement and, during really cold spells, areas upstairs that are not so toasty.

And—voice of experience talking—going larger now, at the start, on the stove, means avoiding the hassle later on of either really regretting not having done so and possibly figuring out how to switch to a larger one after living with the small one for a season or two. You can build as small a fire as you want in a large stove, no issue. I am doing it as I type. You won't hurt the large stove at all to have a small fire in it, you will simply have a small fire going. In my case, today, for example, I just wanted to take off the early a.m. chill but later this a.m. I expect the temp. outdoors to rise to 65 or so. I have a very small fire going and that fire will be all gone by late morning. Perfect.
 
My furnace will have an ECM fan, which is capable of turning at VERY low speeds. What about letting it run? That should constantly circulate air, without creating a drafty feeling.

Oh ya those are nice, let'r run, and at this stage you could design/place the air returns so you get the best air flow possible given your stove. My friends dad runs his 24/7 365.

Married in calabogie, awesome been there, get more insulation in your house best investment ever.

Yup got married on that little island there (wife's dream). I can't tell you how night and day blowing that insulation in has been. Also replaced the old back door, hollow core inside door lol, with a new foam insulated steel door.
 
Sound like I am being pushed toward the larger stove. Does anyone think having the larger stove would be any kind of problem, if not fired to full potential?

Also thanks for the heads up on the cold air needing to get back to the lower level. I pictured the warm air from the stove rising up the staircase, but hadn't considered the colder air needing to return.

My furnace will have an ECM fan, which is capable of turning at VERY low speeds. What about letting it run? That should constantly circulate air, without creating a drafty feeling.

What can help you here is having softwood AND hardwood. If you take 10 pieces of wood from each (hypothetically the same size, MC, etc) and simply wanted to warm up the house a bit, burn softwood. IF it is -25 C outside, use the hardwood. Or maybe a mixture of both. Equal number of pieces of wood placed in the stove the same way should yield (hypothetically) the same intensity just for various lengths of time based on density.

Just remember, it is easier to move dense air downstairs (cold) than the less dense air up (warm). So a little fan or blower circulating the cooler air downstairs will assist with the stack effect of the heat rising in your staircase. And from experience, don't place a couch/chair too close to the staircase, there'll be a nice draft coming down those steps.

Andrew
 
1) A wood stove is a space heater

2) You wouldn't expect an electric space heater of any size to heat your entire house from the basement

3) You should probably have similar expectations for your wood stove

4) A Super 27 will heat your basement nicely.
 
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The stove size will depend entirely on the heat loss of the house. If you wrap the house envelope in 1" rigid foam insulation, sealed correctly, I have no doubt that the Super 27 will heat the whole place. Most folks here that are suggesting go large do not have experience with a super-insulated house with a good thermal break. My BIL built one in mid NY state in 1980. They have been heating the whole, 2.5 story 2400 sq ft place on about 1.5-2 cords of wood a year. The usually heat with just using a built in custom wood fired pizza oven as the heat source and warmth from an attached greenhouse.

Look back in this thread at Dick Russell's numbers for a realistic comparison.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/speak-up-or-hold-your-peace.132846/#post-1785364
Your heat loss calcs for this house should be your guide, not seat of the pants. Super insulated houses are very easy to heat and the Super 27 is a very flexible burner. Given the tight nature of the house and basement location I would also recommend putting in an OAK for the stove.

PS: If it hasn't been poured yet, I would double the insulation under the slab and bring it up to R=10. Investing in insulation now will pay off for the life of the house. And get the heat loss calcs done before deciding the stove size.
 
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BeGreen, I think Dick Russell is a bit of an exception. I don't think the OP will be building R40 walls. I may be mistaken. FWIW, in Quebec, provincial building code REQUIRES you to have 1 inch XPS foam on the outside as well as under the slab. OI believe the new building code in Ontario requires people to have R19 full basement walls. In Quebec, beyond the R5 foam, you must also have R20 in the walls and R40 attic. Unless the OP has a build like Dick Russell's, I do not think the SUper 27 will be able to handle the space. But I don't know much about the Super 27 so I could very well be wrong. Especially if he wants longer burns allowing to keep the temperatures high enough to prevent the furnace kicking in. Ideally, he'd get a CAT stove for a more constant heat (instead of a non cat larger stove).

I have R25 walls upstairs, R22 basement walls, R40 attic, R5 under my slab, SUPER tight house (due to spray foam) and my 2300 can barely handle the colder days (-20).

He should certainly do the calculation but also you gotta look at cost of insulating vs gain in savings/efficiency. Here's a good link for a rough calc: http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/InsulUpgrd/InsulUpgrade.htm
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/InsulUpgrd/InsulUpgrade.htmAndrew
 
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Yes, heat loss calcs are important here. As far as stove size, there are two schools of thought on this one. It's question of whether one wants a stove sized for the majority of heating days with an occasional boost from the primary heating system on coldest nights, or if one wants a stove sized for the extremes and is ok with a bit more fire management on the milder days. We faced the same question. Both the Spectrum or the Summit would heat our house well. What tipped the scales was Tom coming up with an offer for the T6 that I couldn't refuse, but based on my next door neighbor's experience with his Spectrum in a slightly smaller, but uninsulated house I have no doubt that the Spectrum would heat our 2000 sq ft old house well. Amazingly, according to Tom's tests, it has roughly the same burn times as the larger Summit.

Thanks for the link to the insulation calculator. That is helpful. Here is what I input for this situation. Does the results sound about right to you? $5238/yr is a very nice savings.

Screen Shot 2014-10-19 at 12.47.17 PM.png
 
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Hmmm. Been stewing all morning. I agree with the general consensus that the Super 27 will probably be adequate, especially since A) there is a backup natural gas system in the building and B) the NG system can probably be setup to suck hot air from near the stove and blow it upstairs.

With the NG fan helping move the hot air up, a simple box fan at the top of the stairs but on the floor of the upper story blowing cool air from the lower parts of the upper story out into the stairwell so it can fall downstairs might be all the auxiliary circulation required.

Question: Is the house sealed up well enough that the architect is calling for an HRV? A Heat Recovery Ventilation system is basically an air to air heat exchanger. Suck stale air out of the baths and kitchen, push it out of the house through one side of the heat exchanger. Bring cold air in through the heat exchanger and put it into the bedrooms and living spaces.

If you got one of those I think the 27 will almost definitely be enough stove, just put one of the warm air outputs near the stove and skip the OAK.

FWIW I am posting from a 2 story 2400 foot home myself, 1985 build, 2x6 construction with a reasonably intact layer of vapor barrier between the interior drywall and the studs. All my windows are triple pane except the picture window in the living room and the sliding glass door out onto the deck, both of those are double pane.

I am guessing you know someone in the business and are getting a really good price on the PE. By all accounts it is a good stove from a reputable manufacturer. Go ahead and run it for a couple years. When you have opportunity, visit the home of someone running a catalytic equipped stove during heating season.

I ran a secondary combustion non cat stove last winter and saved, gosh, almost $4,000 off my oil bill. The "trouble" with my old stove was to burn clean it had to burn hot and fast. Fill that thing up and it would run like a freight train for an hour or two, make a huge pulse of heat. Then the house would be uncomfortably hot for a while. Then the interior temperature would be comfortable for a while. We generally waited until we were nearly uncomfortably cold before we lit the fool thing off again and made another huge pulse of heat.

I did not have a Pacific Energy stove. However, the physics of secondary burn do not change with the name plate on the stove box. If you close the air intake far enough, the stove will drop out of secondary burn and make creosote and pollution instead of a huge pulse of hot fast heat.

I don't need an 8" flue in my 30 year old cold climate home. I wouldn't bother for yours. Given that you are building now under sensible modern building codes there are plenty of stoves out there that can heat your whole building through a 6" pipe. If you decide you don't like dealing with cord wood there are dozens and dozens of pellet stoves sized for our homes as well. Running four inch pellet exhaust inside your old 6" flue won't be too much trouble either.
 
did not have a Pacific Energy stove. However, the physics of secondary burn do not change with the name plate on the stove box. If you close the air intake far enough, the stove will drop out of secondary burn and make creosote and pollution instead of a huge pulse of hot fast heat.

You're saying it's one or the other? Rilly?
 
Yes, heat loss calcs are important here. As far as stove size, there are two schools of thought on this one. It's question of whether one wants a stove sized for the majority of heating days with an occasional boost from the primary heating system on coldest nights, or if one wants a stove sized for the extremes and is ok with a bit more fire management on the milder days. We faced the same question. Both the Spectrum or the Summit would heat our house well. What tipped the scales was Tom coming up with an offer for the T6 that I couldn't refuse, but based on my next door neighbor's experience with his Spectrum in a slightly smaller, but uninsulated house I have no doubt that the Spectrum would heat our 2000 sq ft old house well. Amazingly, according to Tom's tests, it has roughly the same burn times as the larger Summit.

Thanks for the link to the insulation calculator. That is helpful. Here is what I input for this situation. Does the results sound about right to you? $5238/yr is a very nice savings.

View attachment 141687

It is helpful. So is reading the chart properly ;) That savings was based on 10 years. So I figure to double the insulation should cost at least another $5000 compared to R20 (especially when paying someone else to install it), so you're not really saving anything in the long term.

I was also basing my thoughts on the fact that he wanted to NOT run his furnace unless absolutely necessary. :D

Andrew
 
Okay. I think I have to clear some things up here. I plan to burn the stove as much as possible when I can. If the furnace comes on when I am at work or outside, or whatever, I don't really care. I just want to know if I am at home, can I do a good job of heating the house with the Super 27, or should I get the Summit? I do not want to have to rely on the furnace, but I do not really care if it has to do it's thing.

In a nutshell, if I was at home all winter long, 24/7, could I heat the house with the 27, or is the summit the way to go?
 
There isn't a consensus...lol
R20 walls and r40 ceilings?

If you just want to heat while you are home and not care if the furnace runs then the 27 will work. If you want to heat the entire house with a wood stove that is in the basement when it is -20(or colder), the summit would be best. However, be warned. Heating 2 stories with a wood stove can cook you out of your basement or at least the room in which it sits. My tv room that has the stove reaches 28-29 c when I want to keep upstairs at 21-22 with stove heat only.

Andrew
 
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Go with the bigger stove! Why mess around!?
 
Can't see how really. Have a smaller fire if your so inclined. When you want to have a good blaze, you'll appreciate the bigger stove.
 
I thought of one other variable. Kids. If it's just you and the wife I am pretty confident the 27 will be enough stove for you. Kids leave windows open. They leave doors open. They are kids. It takes years and years to parent them.

If you are going to have even one kid in the house with you, get the Summit. No matter how hard it is to build a 27 sized fire in a Summit, you ain't ever going to make a Summit sized fire in a 27.
 
It is helpful. So is reading the chart properly ;) That savings was based on 10 years. So I figure to double the insulation should cost at least another $5000 compared to R20 (especially when paying someone else to install it), so you're not really saving anything in the long term.

I was also basing my thoughts on the fact that he wanted to NOT run his furnace unless absolutely necessary. :D

Andrew
Ah, but there are other gains, especially if AC is used in the summer. But also for a quieter house, increased home value, and the calculator is based on current energy costs. Do you think they'll be higher 10 yrs from now? I do.

iluvpikn - what are the heat loss calcs for the house? What size furnace is being installed based on these calcs?
 
Well if it helps.

This summer I removed a PE Super 27 from the basement and replaced it with a BK Princess Ultra. I didn't think the 27 could heat my home. It did ok but 6-8hr burns. Just no viable. The wife had two children to feed never mind a wood stove.

Say it again: 8" flue and a BK King.
 
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