Looking for ideas for unconventional stove pipe application in yurt.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

Hello,

First time poster here. For reference, I'm familiar with recommended clearances between stove pipe and combustibles for which I abide by in my home. However, my family broke those rules in their sheep camps for 30+ yrs, I have recently broken the rules in my yurt and wood fired hot tub...and my friend has broken them for 20 yrs in his yurts. All without a single fire. However, that doesn't make me sleep better at night...particularly being that I believe my stove produces more BTUs than the aforementioned. I'm looking for a piece of mind.

Here's what I'm talking about: Single wall stove pipe running right through the ceiling/roof, all the way to the cap...the pipe a mere few inches to combustible materials where it goes through the roof (metal flashing). In my friends case, he is within 2" of combustibles! My personal closest is 4". I would like to improve on this.

All of these examples were/are in non-conventional back-country shelters meant for occasional use.

For simplicity, ease, and cost, what I'm thinking about is running DuraVent double wall stove pipe from stove, through my yurt roof, and to the chimney cap. I have not seen this pipe in person...and I know this isn't its intended application...so I don't know how well this will work, or what considerations I will need to take in to account.

Thoughts? Ideas?

bbeals · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Hello,

First time poster here. For reference, I'm familiar with recommended clearances between stove pipe and combustibles for which I abide by in my home. However, my family broke those rules in their sheep camps for 30+ yrs, I have recently broken the rules in my yurt and wood fired hot tub...and my friend has broken them for 20 yrs in his yurts. All without a single fire. However, that doesn't make me sleep better at night...particularly being that I believe my stove produces more BTUs than the aforementioned. I'm looking for a piece of mind.

Here's what I'm talking about: Single wall stove pipe running right through the ceiling/roof, all the way to the cap...the pipe a mere few inches to combustible materials where it goes through the roof (metal flashing). In my friends case, he is within 2" of combustibles! My personal closest is 4". I would like to improve on this.

All of these examples were/are in non-conventional back-country shelters meant for occasional use.

For simplicity, ease, and cost, what I'm thinking about is running DuraVent double wall stove pipe from stove, through my yurt roof, and to the chimney cap. I have not seen this pipe in person...and I know this isn't its intended application...so I don't know how well this will work, or what considerations I will need to take in to account.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Uh, OK...We have all done things we are not proud of or have just gotten away with. Ask yourself what your life is worth, or that of your family and friends. Do it to code or don't do it.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

Uh, so you have a chainsaw, wood stove, and log splitter. Impressive. Still no need to be condescending. I freely admitted to knowing what I have personally experienced and what I have witnessed work is not conventional or to code. I am not ashamed in any way of this. Codes are a wonderful thing but following them all the time isn't the only way to make something work safely all the time.

BrotherBart · Oct 19, 2014

You ask for thoughts and ideas, you get thoughts and ideas.

bbeals · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Uh, so you have a chainsaw, wood stove, and log splitter. Impressive. Still no need to be condescending. I freely admitted to knowing what I have personally experienced and what I have witnessed work is not conventional or to code. I am not ashamed in any way of this. Codes are a wonderful thing but following them all the time isn't the only way to make something work safely all the time.

Oh, I wasn't being condescending, but if I could take 3 lousy seconds of my life to save another, then I thought it was worthy. Sorry, just don't see a reason why you wouldn't use double walled stainless in a situation like that (of course cost is an issue), but that should never replace safety. Sorry if I offended anyone with my sensibilities.

Spletz · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Uh, so you have a chainsaw, wood stove, and log splitter. Impressive. Still no need to be condescending. I freely admitted to knowing what I have personally experienced and what I have witnessed work is not conventional or to code. I am not ashamed in any way of this. Codes are a wonderful thing but following them all the time isn't the only way to make something work safely all the time.

I think all involved here, puts safety first. No need to feel attacked. Sure, for a little used yurt you might skirt some rules, but why? I think we'd prefer to see you and yours alive, without shortcuts. Is there a real need to skirt code? Would there be a real big outlay to remove all the combustibles away from the cap out to a few feet vs. a few inches?

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

I'd have no problem installing the standard code approved system. However, there is already a hole in the roof of this yurt, and there is no way to install a ceiling box to support the weight. Most folks with these organic structures go through the wall and support everything outside. Again though, I already have a hole in my roof...and I know it to work with more than 50 yrs combined real world experience between my family and buddy. I just want a little extra piece of mind.

bbeals · Oct 19, 2014

Spletz said:
I think all involved here, puts safety first. No need to feel attacked. Sure, for a little used yurt you might skirt some rules, but why? I think we'd prefer to see you and yours alive, without shortcuts. Is there a real need to skirt code? Would there be a real big outlay to remove all the combustibles away from the cap out to a few feet vs. a few inches?

At least put a stick of double walled stack through the roof or heck, a honda generator with some electric baseboard would work too, just don't put the generator in the yert. I am not a yert fan, my neighbor and buddy gets a kick out of them and spends a week or more in them every year. We hang waders in ours. (and no heat)

Spletz · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
I'd have no problem installing the standard code approved system. However, there is already a hole in the roof of this yurt, and there is no way to install a ceiling box to support the weight. Most folks with these organic structures go through the wall and support everything outside. Again though, I already have a hole in my roof...and I know it to work with more than 50 yrs combined real world experience between my family and buddy. I just want a little extra piece of mind.

Fish-

Want a little extra piece of mind? Code.

That's really what it's there for.

I don't know enough about yurts to say much more.

Welcome to the blog, I've learned a ton here!!

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

bbeals said:
At least put a stick of double walled stack through the roof or heck, a honda generator with some electric baseboard would work too, just don't put the generator in the yert. I am not a yert fan, my neighbor and buddy gets a kick out of them and spends a week or more in them every year. We hang waders in ours. (and no heat)

Some advice, finally!

"Double walled stack". But how? More details would be appreciated.

By the way. The idea of a back country yurt, for many people, myself included, is to get away from things like generators. You don't put the generator in the yurt??? You're kidding!! (just being sarcastic now)

bbeals · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Some advice, finally! "Double walled stack". But how? More details would be appreciated.

By the way. The idea of a back country yurt, for many people, myself included, is to get away from things like generators. You don't put the generator in the yurt??? You're kidding!! (just being sarcastic now)

OK, so were on the same page and yes, I was being sarcastic about the generator in the yurt, unfortunately; I have never done an install like yours, but I struggle with the weight of a double walled piece of pipe at the top of the run with nothing to support it. It might be easier to find buffalo hides, build a tee pee and have an open fire? Again, being sarcastic, as I do not know how you would support what you really need to make this setup safe. I am confident that someone out there has an idea that would prevent you from living like a total cave man.

Thinking out loud and not necessarily clear...What if you were to cut a 2" round hole in the top of the yurt, bolt an 1/8" to 1/4" piece of asbestos in the holes place and run your single walled pipe through it? Obviously, take every precaution when you cut it, but if I couldn't find a way to support the load on the double walled pipe, then I might go in a direction like that. Again, it is all about keeping the heat away from the combustibles.

Bigg_Redd · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
For simplicity, ease, and cost, what I'm thinking about is running DuraVent double wall stove pipe from stove, through my yurt roof, and to the chimney cap.

As long as the portion that goes through the roof and to the cap is insulated double wall you're fine.

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

We contemplated options for this yurt install and chose to go through the sidewall as it let us to a safer, leak free connection to an exterior chimney of a decent height. The connector is Duravent DVL double-wall pipe with 45 elbows to improve draft. The exterior 12' chimney is DuraTech. It's worked out quite well for them and is as safe as a home install.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

bbeals said:
OK, so were on the same page and yes, I was being sarcastic about the generator in the yurt, unfortunately; I have never done an install like yours, but I struggle with the weight of a double walled piece of pipe at the top of the run with nothing to support it. It might be easier to find buffalo hides, build a tee pee and have an open fire? Again, being sarcastic, as I do not know how you would support what you really need to make this setup safe. I am confident that someone out there has an idea that would prevent you from living like a total cave man.

Thinking out loud and not necessarily clear...What if you were to cut a 2" round hole in the top of the yurt, bolt an 1/8" to 1/4" piece of asbestos in the holes place and run your single walled pipe through it? Obviously, take every precaution when you cut it, but if I couldn't find a way to support the load on the double walled pipe, then I might go in a direction like that. Again, it is all about keeping the heat away from the combustibles.

That's sort of what I did, except I used a sandwich of metal: Galvanized on the outside and aluminum on the inside, to dissipate the heat. Extending inside this sandwich is the yurt cover and its insulation. 4" of clearance. A lot less than your idea. However, with a normal fire, I can hold my hand on the aluminum, immediately adjacent to the single wall pipe, indefinitely. With a abnormally ripp'n hot fire, I can hold my hand against the same spot for well over a minute before it gets a little uncomfortable. For what ever measure all that is......

The stove itself can support the weight of whatever pipe I wanted to use. But, I'm not familiar enough with all the available pipe/chimney components to know how easy it would be to run this sort of pipe directly off the top of the stove.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

Bigg_Redd said:
As long as the portion that goes through the roof and to the cap is insulated double wall you're fine.

Can one some how run insulated double wall direct from the stove itself? In other words, there'd be no single wall "stove pipe" at all. Insulated all the way from stove to cap.

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

There is double-wall stove connector pipe (see my above post) that transitions to the double-wall insulated class A pipe at the ceiling/side wall.

Bigg_Redd · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Can one some how run insulated double wall direct from the stove itself? In other words, there'd be no single wall "stove pipe" at all. Insulated all the way from stove to cap.

Yes. It's fairly common.

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

Bigg_Redd said:
Yes. It's fairly common.

From the installations I've seen I would say one in a thousand, if that. Most people don't want the bulky class A in their living room and don't want to pay the extra cost. It also is crappy for cleaning compared with a slip-section of pipe unless the stove has easy to access the flue opening, like a PE stove.

Bigg_Redd · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
from the installations I've seen I would say one in a thousand, if that.

Ok

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
View attachment 141713
We contemplated options for this yurt install and chose to go through the sidewall as it let us to a safer, leak free connection to an exterior chimney of a decent height. The connector is Duravent DVL double-wall pipe with 45 elbows to improve draft. The exterior 12' chimney is DuraTech. It's worked out quite well for them and is as safe as a home install.

In hindsight, that's how I wish I would have done mine too. I have a hole in my roof and can't turn back time now though. What I have works...but I know it can be made a lot better. The question is how...while keeping it simple. This yurt is a long drive from home, not easily accessible, and I'm short on time and prefer to save as much of what little money I have. Oh, and I don't mind a challenge. Rather, it seems I thrive on it now that I think about it. Would be a lot easier to just be "normal"!

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

Holes can be patched.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
There is double-wall stove connector pipe (see my above post) that transitions to the double-wall insulated class A pipe at the ceiling/side wall.

Thanks. Just so I'm clear though, what runs through the wall: the double wall pipe or the insulated chimney? If the former, how much clearance was there between pipe and combustibles?

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
Holes can be patched.

Yes...but, to do it properly would require that I take the cover off and weld a new piece of vinyl in. Ultimately, in the future, this may be what I do. For now though, there's no way I'm taking that cover off this year!

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

Fishnaked said:
Thanks. Just so I'm clear though, what runs through the wall: the double wall pipe or the insulated chimney? If the former, how much clearance was there between pipe and combustibles?

Chimney pipe should be what runs through the wall or ceiling. It has a lower clearance requirement of 2". This issue with the ceiling of a yurt is, how do you support the chimney pipe with a ceiling exit? It's heavy.

Fishnaked · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
Chimney pipe should be what runs through the wall or ceiling. It has a lower clearance requirement of 2". This issue with the ceiling of a yurt is, how do you support the chimney pipe with a ceiling exit? It's heavy.

Yes, I completely understand. But how, without the standard ceiling support box, do I support the chimney? There has to be a way to bear the chimney right on to the single wall pipe.

But, going back to my original thought, I think the Duravent DVL double wall stove pipe could be run from stove to cap in my application. That pipe takes the standard 18" required clearance down to 6". I have 4"...and closer to 5" when I consider it more closely. Those pipe manufacturers are adding a safety net to cover their rears, ie, more than is actually needed in most scenarios. Codes also have built in safety nets.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't follow codes and recommendations. I think they're great and absolutely necessary. However, I think if one is reasonably close, and within the proper context elsewhere within their project, they can still be "safe" without going by "the book". My aforementioned mentioned experience bears this out. It's just so far from codes and recommendations that my conditioned response is fear and doubt. If I knew nothing of codes, I wouldn't worry based on what I know and have seen for years.

But I digress. Duravent DVL double wall stove pipe from my stove to cap. Despite being unconventional, is there a reason why it won't work...in terms of rain/snow being able to enter between the walls, or any other issue I'm not considering?

Looking for ideas for unconventional stove pipe application in yurt.

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