Local Dealer Likes Vermont Castings

i still bought a vc, and am happy with it.

I bought a VC but after reading these forums wouldn't ever again....

Seems no-one ever has great things to say about them here (at least anything made in the past 15 years)

So far happy with mine, but still waiting for disaster to strike.

If they sell blaze king... buy one imo. I will be next time or a woodstock.

Sons924 said:

i still bought a vc, and am happy with it.

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Likewise, I bought the VC Montpelier last year and love it. The store I purchased from In eastern MA told me they were good stoves, also the installer recommended them, and said he had installed 60 to 70 of them with no problems reported. I can't wait to fire it up this fall.
MCD

I don't believe its an education process in this instance. I thought so until I tried a Leyden. It has the very same never burn system in it. It started ok, as it got colder outside the unpredictable the stove got.
We end up replacing lots of parts after only a few years, especially in the non cat dutchwest.

I have a Vermont Castings Encore 2N1 and it has a crack in the back of the casting, had holes in the combuster after year 3, has had the access cover on the refractory broken 3 times and temps soar to 650-700 degrees for 8 hours straight with draft completely shut. You've gotta get a nice coal bed before shutting her down for the night or she'll backpuff you right out of the house. Long story short: the stove has some incredibly efficient technology that's wrapped in a package that looks great on paper but fails the user in many different ways. But hey, that's just my "limited perspective" talking...

I think the long and short of it is that they made some good stoves, then some not so good ones, then some good ones again and so on and so on. Other manufacturers have had their problems too. One of the older Jotul models usually develops a crack in the fireback, but still works fine. Personally, I find the inner workings of my older Defiant Encore to be needlessly fragile and complicated.

You can come here and get a broad spectrum of information versus one person at your local hearth store.

Huh . . . a place that sells Vermont Castings and most likely gets some free swag from them had nothing bad to say about them. I suspect there are many businesses selling product -- whether it be a woodstove, car, tractor, ATV, etc. -- and very few of them will have much bad to say about the product they're selling . . .

Quite honestly I would look at the reviews here -- and theyr'e not all bad -- some folks are very pleased with their inserts, woodstoves, etc. from VC. A guy selling three or four lines of stoves that is his bread and butter (or bacon) may have a very different and rose colored view of a product vs. folks who do not stand to benefit from their comments -- pro- or con-. Of course you do have to realize that there can also sometimes be the "internet experience" where issues and concerns may be magnified . . . and then again . . . sometimes there are truly a lot of folks with a lot of valid concerns or experiences.

Simonkenton said:

We have a big wood stove store here in Asheville NC.

http://www.firehouse-casual.calls.net/hearth/

They have a real classy store, several wood stoves set up, and burning. I go there because I am going to buy a Jotul from them next year.
I noticed some Vermont Castings stoves on the floor. I was surprised, because I have read so often on this forum that VC is bad news.

Now, in 1988 I bought a VC Resolute and burned it for 6 years, sold it with the house it was in. That was a great stove. My mom still has that same stove and she loves it!

I asked the guy about Vermont Castings. I noticed he was wearing a Vermont Castings t shirt.
I told him that I had read many many bad reports on this forum.

He dismissed our forum, said it was a very limited perspective. He said Vermont Castings are real good stoves.

I told him, "You sell Jotul and Blaze King, my forum says they are great stoves, and you say the forum is right on those. But, the forum is full of it, with the bad reviews of the Vermont Castings?"

Go figure.

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I bought a VC Montpelier insert last year. I have found it to be a well made, great looking, reliable and decent heating stove. I was new to burning last year but after getting some great tips on this forum I am confident this year will be even better. My biggest issue is getting a draft started. The issue is my chimney and not the insert. Once I have draft going it burns beautiful and without issue. I am always looking for tips on how to get a good draft started.

You have to take both the good and bad with a grain of salt. We just got rid of our 2000 Toyota Sienna. After we bought it, we found that there were many reports of oil sludge buildup. Waited for that shoe to drop but, diligent maintenance on my part, and it never happened.

We bought our Montpelier back in '08. Still happy. My wife picked it over a Jotul for the big glass, plus she wanted a flush insert. I read the unfavorable VC reviews afterward , and waited for some issues. They never happened.

Perhaps if I had dealt with VC warranty or customer service, my satisfaction level would be different.

Gabe

Folks with the Montpelier have good luck because AFAIK the Montpelier is a traditional burn tube style non-catalytic updraft stove, and thus sufferers none of the finickiness of downdraft that VC has had so much problem with.

The real bad reputation comes from a few things. Partially its folks who are looking for a set and forget no maintenance stove (VC aint it), partly due to real design and quality issues.

1 - Their QC apparently fell apart during a number of the 1990s and 2000s buyouts. Warranty support also dissapeared at times. Parts can be expensive with long waits even today.

2 - The downdraft system is more finicky to operate than traditional updraft. The downdraft non-cats (everburn) are particularly tough supposedly. downdraft cats (Encore, Defiant) can be made to work OK if you keep up on the maintenance but you have to watch them as they can runaway easily and even operating at their best dont seem to be anywhere near as clean burning as BK and Woodstock.

3 - They are cemented cast iron stoves. Complex and by nature they are maintenance intensive wit ha lot of gaskets to check annually, cemented seams that require re-gluing every 10 years or so if run hard, and the ceramic refractory box that is required to protect the catalyst in back that wears out over time.


Like many of you I grew up with a Resolute, the 1979 model. Loved that stove, my Dad still has it but its seen better days. I inherited a 97 Encore Catalytic. With a lot of babying I got it to the point where it heats this house wonderfully, burn long... but still has the tendency to run away at times if I'm not careful and makes more creosote than it should.

I love the idea of VC as an old time New England brand and would love to see them get back to their 80s glory, but honestly today there are many better options.

EatenByLimestone said:

My Century was made by CFM, which was owned by VC at the time. It's been a great little stove. It's not overly complicated and doesn't have any parts that are going to wear out.

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Actually it was the other way around, CFM bought VC. There is likely no design or manufacturing connection whatsoever between your stove and VC.

I love my VC too..... But can anyone tell me why the glass keeps so much heat inside? When I open the door for 5-10 minutes, I can raise the room temp 6 degrees......

From what I've learned here, it's the "downdraft" models that you'll want to avoid. But if I were still looking to buy, there are so many makers with better overall reputations, I would feel much better just choosing a different maker like Jotul, Lopi, Harman, Pacific Energy (my own choice), and quite a few others. I'm sure VC has some perfectly good offerings, but I'd never feel comfortable buying one just because of the spotty reputation. But that's just me.

As far as "limited perspective" goes regarding this forum, it's the most objective forum and source for advice I've come across yet. The most limited perspective views I can think of and have experience with come from dealers with limited sources of income (the models they sell). Not saying that this dealer is anything other than honest, but as a buyer you have to do your due diligence which you are doing here and with other research.

I had a VC WinterWarm Large (c.2004). The upside was the stove made crazy heat - we had a 2500 sf farmhouse in Michigan and most of the heat came from the woodstove (and 6 cord or firewood/yr).

Downside was maintenance. It actually had a casting defect when it showed up, and then every couple years id have gaskets going bad or refractory covers cracking, and I had to replace the cat after about 6 yrs. But it didn't make creosote to speak of, and it did make good heat.

EatenByLimestone said:

My guess is it probably reflects the heat back into the firebox.

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Thanks, makes sense....

So he dismissed this forum as a "very limited prospective."

I would definately go with the the very limited prospective of the knowledgable folks on this forum over the "one" guy who happens to sale VC's

EatenByLimestone said:

My guess is it probably reflects the heat back into the firebox.

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Yep, the glass reflects a lot of the radiant heat of the fire back in. Helps with keeping firebox temps up for secondary.

If you are measuring with a thermostat or thermometer in the room that's in line of site of the door, as soon as you open it the radiant heat is warming the thermometer which is why it shoots up so fast. Probably has not actually warmed all the mass of the room that much. I have this issue as my central thermostat is on a wall directly opposite the stove, it always reads higher than it subjectively feels throughout the house.

jharkin said:

Yep, the glass reflects a lot of the radiant heat of the fire back in. Helps with keeping firebox temps up for secondary.

If you are measuring with a thermostat or thermometer in the room that's in line of site of the door, as soon as you open it the radiant heat is warming the thermometer which is why it shoots up so fast. Probably has not actually warmed all the mass of the room that much. I have this issue as my central thermostat is on a wall directly opposite the stove, it always reads higher than it subjectively feels throughout the house.

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My thermostat is at the other end of the room, probably 30 ft away, the other day when it shot up 6 degrees it was a pretty hot bed of coals.... It totally makes sense about the glass producing the secondaries because this particular insert gives off a massive light show, we originally got it for the look and ambiance which is second to none, but now I'm working on the hotter heating aspect of it..... But thanks.....