Hi all, this is my first year burning wood as I now get up to 12 cords a year free from my work. I have a lopi small flush insert with blowers. I've been reading about stovetop temps but with the blowers going my IR thermometer reads quite a bit lower than the temps I have seen on here. Being new I'm not quite sure when to reload and am concerned with overfiring. Also with it being a catalytic stove temperatures seem to be quite important for the functionality of the catalyst. What type of thermometer should I be looking at getting? Also any insight on burn techniques for both day and overnight with a catalytic stove would be very helpful. Thank you
New woodburner. Need help with stove temps
- Thread starter Rocceral
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DBoon
Minister of Fire
You have a lot of questions in one thread. I've separated them below and replied.
But first, what Lopi stove do you have? More info will help.
Question 1: I've been reading about stovetop temps but with the blowers going my IR thermometer reads quite a bit lower than the temps I have seen on here.
How long has your wood been drying? If you wood is only 1 year dry or less, you may struggle to reach the stove temps people discuss here. Most of us have been there - time cures this problem. Just make sure to stay ahead on your wood supply.
Question 2: What type of thermometer should I be looking at getting? Depends on your stove. If you have a small Lopi (non-cat) insert (I suspect you may actually have a Lopi Republic 1250 or Answer insert) then you would want to locate your surface-mount temperature sensor in the middle front of the stove in the "jacketed" slot, as far back as practical to still read.
Question 3: Also any insight on burn techniques for both day and overnight with a catalytic stove would be very helpful.
Here is something I posted a few days ago on overnight burns in my Lopi Answer.
But first, what Lopi stove do you have? More info will help.
Question 1: I've been reading about stovetop temps but with the blowers going my IR thermometer reads quite a bit lower than the temps I have seen on here.
How long has your wood been drying? If you wood is only 1 year dry or less, you may struggle to reach the stove temps people discuss here. Most of us have been there - time cures this problem. Just make sure to stay ahead on your wood supply.
Question 2: What type of thermometer should I be looking at getting? Depends on your stove. If you have a small Lopi (non-cat) insert (I suspect you may actually have a Lopi Republic 1250 or Answer insert) then you would want to locate your surface-mount temperature sensor in the middle front of the stove in the "jacketed" slot, as far back as practical to still read.
Question 3: Also any insight on burn techniques for both day and overnight with a catalytic stove would be very helpful.
Here is something I posted a few days ago on overnight burns in my Lopi Answer.
I have a Lopi Small Flush Hybrid Fyre stove. I believe it is new this year which is making it even harder for me to find info. It is a catalytic stove with a blower system.
All my wood is measuring less than 20% moisture. Could the stove top temp be lower because the blowers are pulling heat away from the stovetop?
DBoon
Minister of Fire
Looks like a nice stove. Didn't know they came out with that.
My Answer has a similar jacketed construction. I run the blower on the lowest setting constantly. With good, dry wood, it will not pull so much heat from the stove that it will inhibit proper combustion, but when my wood was not really dry my first season (even though I thought it was dry) I thought the blower was cooling the stove too much. I'm guessing that your wood isn't really as dry as you think it is. With dry wood, you'll be turning the blower up to cool the insert down during some times of the burn cycle. When I saw the picture in the brochure of the woman in the easy chair with her feet dangling in front of the stove, I can tell you that when the stove is burning correctly, her feet would probably be on fire.
When you tested the moisture content, did you split the wood and test it in the middle? What type of wood is it? Some woods (e.g. oak, hickory) test "low" with a standard moisture meter since their conductance is so different than other woods. Reading 20% on these woods with a moisture meter might really mean 24% - not quite dry enough to burn well, but dry enough to burn and make you think the stove is the problem.
I would suggest two things:
1) Get some kiln dried wood from a convenience store (the small bundles) for $5 or so and try burning that. If that burns really well, it's your wood.
2) Test your wood again with a multi-meter and read the resistance value in the middle of the inside of a fresh split. See https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-a-multimeter-to-measure-wood-moisture-level.40033/. This will give you a true reading, not "almost true" regardless of the wood species.
When you (likely) find out that your wood isn't as dry as you think it is, re-split this years wood into to smaller pieces (2-3" on a side) and stack it in a sunny, outside location that gets a lot of wind, and put a good cover over the top (but not the sides). Augment this wood during the season with some pallets or other scrounged, dry wood. Get more wood in the pipeline for next year.
As far as "where does the temperature sensor go", I would suggest that you contact the dealer for advice. Looking at the brochure, I don't see where it could go.
Good luck with it. Keep us posted on your progress. You'll get there. We've all been in this place our first season, and you sound like you may be farther along the learning curve than some of us were.
My Answer has a similar jacketed construction. I run the blower on the lowest setting constantly. With good, dry wood, it will not pull so much heat from the stove that it will inhibit proper combustion, but when my wood was not really dry my first season (even though I thought it was dry) I thought the blower was cooling the stove too much. I'm guessing that your wood isn't really as dry as you think it is. With dry wood, you'll be turning the blower up to cool the insert down during some times of the burn cycle. When I saw the picture in the brochure of the woman in the easy chair with her feet dangling in front of the stove, I can tell you that when the stove is burning correctly, her feet would probably be on fire.
When you tested the moisture content, did you split the wood and test it in the middle? What type of wood is it? Some woods (e.g. oak, hickory) test "low" with a standard moisture meter since their conductance is so different than other woods. Reading 20% on these woods with a moisture meter might really mean 24% - not quite dry enough to burn well, but dry enough to burn and make you think the stove is the problem.
I would suggest two things:
1) Get some kiln dried wood from a convenience store (the small bundles) for $5 or so and try burning that. If that burns really well, it's your wood.
2) Test your wood again with a multi-meter and read the resistance value in the middle of the inside of a fresh split. See https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-a-multimeter-to-measure-wood-moisture-level.40033/. This will give you a true reading, not "almost true" regardless of the wood species.
When you (likely) find out that your wood isn't as dry as you think it is, re-split this years wood into to smaller pieces (2-3" on a side) and stack it in a sunny, outside location that gets a lot of wind, and put a good cover over the top (but not the sides). Augment this wood during the season with some pallets or other scrounged, dry wood. Get more wood in the pipeline for next year.
As far as "where does the temperature sensor go", I would suggest that you contact the dealer for advice. Looking at the brochure, I don't see where it could go.
Good luck with it. Keep us posted on your progress. You'll get there. We've all been in this place our first season, and you sound like you may be farther along the learning curve than some of us were.
Thank you for your input. I will give these things you mentioned a try. I am burning all maple and birch (mostly yellow, some white). I did get a later start than I would have liked but I couldnt pass up 12 cord a year and run that darn furnace constantly. I tested the moisture after splitting and it was in the middle. I may try and grab a meter from work that has the wood species setting.
Hmm I wish I could be more helpful, but a hybrid insert is kind of unusual - although I'm sure we'll get more questions about them soon with new models coming out. All I can say is that the blower very well might lower your stovetop temps. Where are you pointing the thermo at to get readings? Is it the hottest spot?
DBoon
Minister of Fire
I'm guessing that this new stove is based on the Answer, and if the CAT is only burning residual smoke, I would think it would operate a lot like my Answer, which is why I thought it was pretty unlikely that the blower on the lowest setting would cause the problems. But if the blower was on higher speed, maybe it would.
The wood is probably not fully seasoned. Damp wood can lead to an unsatisfying experience. Testing must be done on the freshly exposed face of the wood, never on the end grain. Resplit some of the thicker splits and retest on the fresh faces of the splits.
As a test, the next fire add some dry construction wood cut offs, like 2x4s and 2x6s. Start with the 2 x 4s and add some splits once the fire gets going. Maybe go for a 50/50 final mix and see how that burns.
How tall is the chimney on the stove? Is it connected to a 6" liner?
Where are you taking the stove temp. Do it with the blower off for a few minutes. You should reload when the coal bed is down to about 1". There should still be enough coals for an easy relight, but not a 3-4" deep bed of hot glowing coals. Typical reload temps are around 250F, but that may be harder to test on a flush insert. If so you will need to go more by visual guidance.
The blower vents are not going to be a good spot to read the temps for this stove. You could try for an IR reading off the top of the door frame for a relative reading, but it will not be the same as we normally see on a freestanding stovetop. Try for a ballpark of 250F there for the reload and let us know how that works.
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tomc585
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tomc585
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