Quadra Fire Sante Fe insert pellets not feeding, clogged auger/shoot?

dmac80 · Oct 27, 2014

Hello all,

I have a Quadra Fire Santa Fe pellet stove insert, I inherited from previous owner but I think its about 6-7 years old and this will be my 5th season using it.

Anyway I had problems last season with a lot of "nuisance shut downs" that were much more frequent than in the past.(I am now suspecting this issue I'm writing about is the cause)

So fast forward to now and we are firing it up recently for the first time and it is not lighting on startup very often. I spent a little time with it this weekend and the problem is the pellets are not feeding at startup time. I press the reset button and nothing happens. I emptied the hopper as best I could and tried to feel around the top of the shoot area where the auger is, it felt fairly compacted. I used a screw driver to try and break up some of the pellets and I got the ash vac in there as best I could (very tight area) and it loosened up enough that it started to feed properly. I was able to run the stove for most of the day but this morning it wouldn't feed again. Same issue. I suspect the area there is clogged with dust and maybe some long pellets.

My question is, should I pull the stove out of the fireplace and can someone point me in the direction of how best to unclog the auger/shoot area? Is that most likely my problem?

disclosure: I'm not very mechanical but I have learned enough from the book and just basic maintenance to pull the stove out from the fireplace as needed, pull out the pieces inside the firebox to clean/vacuum them, etc. I have no significant electrical skills.

Thanks

dmac

skidozer · Oct 27, 2014

I used to have a Quad, I always vacuumed where the pellets come out helps keep some of the sawdust out of .
I also had a stiff wire I could stick in there from the firebox to unjam any stuck pellets. I had one brand of pellets that would jam the stove.

Thats just a couple things yo could try before taking things apart.

dmac80 · Oct 27, 2014

skidozer said:
I used to have a Quad, I always vacuumed where the pellets come out helps keep some of the sawdust out of .
I also had a stiff wire I could stick in there from the firebox to unjam any stuck pellets. I had one brand of pellets that would jam the stove.

Thats just a couple things yo could try before taking things apart.

Good idea on the wire. Unfortunately since it is a insert, the space is so tight both in the hopper and firebox the little opening where the pellets come out that the ash vac is only somewhat useful, I can't really get the vacuum up in there to get what's stuck. I might try a coat hanger wire and see if I can stick that up there and or down from the hopper end to dislodge the clog... I am only assuming a clog is my problem here, but I'm guessing since I can feel pellets and compacted stuff in the auger area with my fingers and my dislodging effort this weekend partially worked, that this is my main problem here.

Climbhigh · Oct 27, 2014

If you get enough pellets for startup and then the auger won't deliver any more, check the vacuum hose/switch. Lack of vacuum interrupts the auger motor after startup. Start by blowing out the vacuum hose with a compressor, I find the hose will jam up with fines every once in a while. Do this with the stove door closed

.

If that doesn't work, jump the vacuum switch leads (don't leave the stove unattended if you do this) and see if it runs as expected. Bad switch if hose was clear and stove works when it's bypassed.

dmac80 · Oct 27, 2014

Where is the vacuum hose located?

The pellets do nothing at all on startup (or when I press reset button), they only started working when I went and disrupted what I suspect to be a jam in the feed/auger area at the bottom of the hopper. Unfortunately the issue is back again so I suspect I didn't clear the major block, at least I hope that is the cause.

Climbhigh · Oct 27, 2014

If you open the left side access panel, near the front you'll see a black rubber hose leading to a silver box. I believe newer models got rid of the box & it's a hose running to the actual, smaller, switch.

The switch has two red wires coming off of it, switch closes when it senses vacuum.

If you really have a sawdust jam, I'd suspect you would hear the auger motor clicking when it tries to turn on. You can get rid of smaller pellets and the sawdust with a combo of a shop vac and a length of 5/8 garden hose. Use duct tape to seal up the gap, or use something like this to run the hose thru & tape up any gaps.

dmac80 · Oct 27, 2014

thanks for all the replies so far guys. My plan is as follows:

1)power off stove
2)Use a stiff wire to try and pry loose anything that may be jamming up the auger area
3)use ash vac to get sawdust and loose pellets from that area
4)check vacuum hose for cracks, bends, leaks, and tight fitment.
5)Get a can of compressed air and blow into the vacuum hose...(?)
6)Depending how above steps go,I might have to pull the stove from the fireplace for a better look. It was suggested that I "jump the vacuum switch leads" which I assume means disconnecting the two wires from vacuum switch, connecting them to one another with electrical wire, and then trying the stove to see if works properly? (Remember: I know little to nothing about electrical work. My most significant skill/knowledge with electrical work is typically replacing light fixtures and switches/outlets. Don't want to harm myself or the stove).

My other thought is if the vacuum seal is so important (including the door), perhaps the "rope" seal around my glass door is in need of replacement? I replaced it 2 years ago and its fraying again badly already.

Lastly a coworker who has taken apart his stove over the years suggested it might have to with the part where the auger meets the motor? He said it is like a metal pin if you will and somethiung that grips it that gets stripped and won't turn the auger. I don't know the name of the part he referred to, Thing is I don't even hear it attempting to turn when the problem occurs. When the stove behaves it feeds just fine.

Thoughts?

kappel15 · Oct 27, 2014

Jumping the wires together off the vac switch will make the stove run no matter if door gasket is bad or exhaust plugged, or vac hose is plugged. If you take the vac hose off nipple on auger, stick a wire in nipple to make sure it is clear. Also there is a set screw that holds auger to motor shaft. Also sometimes pellets can build up at the top of the auger right next to motor and jam things. Then, you will have to remove auger and motor to clear. I would try jumping wires together and then turn stove on and see if it will run fuel. I would unplug igniter and just keep hitting reset button and run fuel to see if it can clear blockage. kap

whit · Oct 27, 2014

My Santa Fe isn't the insert. It's 6 years old though - the older model - so should match the insert for inside parts if the insert's that old. The newer design came out just after I bought mine (at a clearance discount). I haven't noticed a vacuum hose in it. It does hesitate to get the augur started on the first start each year. I've taken to vacuuming it out from the top of the chute before the first start. Then it can take repeated pressing of the restart button to get it to finally turn over. Once it's going it's good for the season. I'm wondering if there's a lubricant in the motor that solidifies some over the period of inactivity.

Climbhigh · Oct 27, 2014

+1 for kappel, jumper only rules in/out a bad vac switch. On this stove, tho, I haven't removed the auger to clear a top side jam in about 6 years, I just use one of those flexible Craftsman grabber sticks and in jam it from the bottom. Saves a bunch of time, especially when I factor in looking for the screws I tend to drop when putting the assembly back together.

kappel15 · Oct 27, 2014

My Sante Fe is a 2005. Right after they changed the design of the firebox. I have the original auger motor in it. They are sealed. Have you looked at your owners manual for the vac switch? Page 38 in mine. Shows it in the break down of the stove on page 40 also. kap

kappel15 · Oct 27, 2014

Climbhigh said:
+1 for kappel, jumper only rules in/out a bad vac switch. On this stove, tho, I haven't removed the auger to clear a top side jam in about 6 years, I just use one of those flexible Craftsman grabber sticks and in jam it from the bottom. Saves a bunch of time, especially when I factor in looking for the screws I tend to drop when putting the assembly back together.

Them screws are tiny. lol

dmac80 · Oct 27, 2014

So I shut her down, emptied hopper and jammed a hanger wire in there to loosen it up and put the wire up the shoot from firefox area. Then Vacuumed as best I could. Nothing significant was observed. located vacuum hose and pulled off switch nipple, and blew out with compressed air then put it back. Other end is connected in back but since I cant I see it i left alone for now. Then I plugged back in and thermostat clicked on, red call light on. I pressed reset and saw and heard nothing, so I pressed again and opened the hopper and stuck my phone down there with light to record, sure enough the auger is moving just fine. Very slow and silent. I thought I heard the auger click once or twice. I think I took too many pellets out so I added more and more and took video of the auger taking them in. After about 4 or 5 resets pellets finally started to fall into burn pot and it lit up fine. Burned for half hour then I shut her down since room is already warm. I just let her settle for awhile and started up again and it started fine without any need for my intervention. We'll see if she lights tomorrow morning I'm still skeptical it is permanently resolved.

Will post youtube of auger taking in pellets tomorrow. Seems normal to me.

kappel15 · Oct 27, 2014

Sounds like you got it whether you know it or not. The hose is connected to a nipple on the auger tube at the other end. That is where you can poke a wire in hole to make sure it is clear. Sounds like it is, or auger wouldn't of ran. What confuses me is you said you stuck your phone down hopper and could see the auger turning, which would mean no fuel in hopper, which means there should of been no vacuum and auger shouldn't have ran. Next time you fire up stove, wait till it is running and dropping pellets, pull one of the wires on vac switch and see if auger quits running.If it doesn't, your vac switch is bad and it is a safety feature. kap

dmac80 · Oct 28, 2014

I manually turned on the thermostat this morning and the stove fired right up, pellets fed right away. The true test will be if it lasts and if it works with the programmed thermostat on its own.

Here is a video I took of the auger turning last night, notice it "slips" at one point not sure if that is due to an issue with it, a jam, or simply not enough pellets in the feeding area, I added more pellets after this video and that's when stuff started to drop into the burn pot and it lit. Just a reminder though the hopper was completely full when all this started, I emptied it to troubleshoot.

The feed always works with the hopper open since I've had the stove, maybe the hopper can be open on a Santa Fe? It's an insert so its only a slim door at the very top that opens. But it is not accurate to say no fuel, there were pellets in the auger area at all times, just very few of them, few enough that I was able to stick my phone in to get the video I shared.

kappel15 · Oct 28, 2014

Must of been just enough to keep a vacuum going. I seen it jump, but not pause. If you got enough of the clog out for it to run ok, pellets going thru it will clean and shine everything back up. May take a bit. Lesson learned to totally empty hopper and suck all fuel out of auger assy. in spring when done with stove. kap

dmac80 · Oct 31, 2014

So unfortunately I'm still having problems. The stove starts and fires up sometimes fine, but more often than not what I'm observing is the stove starts up, but the pellets don't feed until I hit reset 3-4x. Each time I hit reset I can now hear the auger turning since I know what to listen for, but pellets aren't dropping until I've hit the button, waited till the sound stops then hit it again, and I'd say pretty consistently after 3 or 4 pushes it starts spitting pellets down the shoot into the burn pot and it works fine.

Does this point to a still existing clog or some other problem? I have not burned for more than an hour or two a time before shutting down the stove manually (it hasn't been very cold yet where I live), perhaps I should try to keep it going all day long and see if that clears out a clog? Like I said i can hear the auger turning when I press the button and I have plenty of pellets in the hopper, but for some reason it takes several pressing of the button to get it actually feeding pellets. Further I shouldn't need to hit the reset button at all if things are working correctly.

kappel15 · Oct 31, 2014

First thing is to jump vac wires together and see if that changes anything when stove tries to start. Let us know. kap

dmac80 · Oct 31, 2014

Thanks, I did get a piece of wire was hoping to not to have to try that, but will do and report back. Also will try to run the stove for an entire day to see if it helps push out whatever may or may not be stuck in there.

kappel15 · Oct 31, 2014

Make a jumper wire with spade connectors or alligator clips on it. If in doubt, unplug stove first before jumping.kap

dmac80 · Oct 31, 2014

kappel15 said:
Make a jumper wire with spade connectors or alligator clips on it. If in doubt, unplug stove first before jumping.kap

disclosure again: I know little to nothing about electricity and wiring, however I went to home depot and they gave me a 6" strip of either 14 or 16 gauge wire, its the slighty thicker one I think. I was planning on just peeling back the plastic shroud on each end to reveal the wire and putting one end into the "clip" on one red wire and the other end into the other clip on the other red wire. The 2 red wires are currently clipped/connected to the vacuum switch. I would do this when stove is unplugged, then plug it in, test the stove, power stove off/unplug and undo it so the vac switch is connected again. I googled and know what the spade connectors are you speak of, the 2 red wires have either male or female (I need to check which) spade connector clipped to the switch, do I need to connect a seperate male or female spade connector to the wire I'm using for the jump test so that it then clips to the red wires in the stove (that already have spade connectors on them), or just stick the wire directly into the clips on the red wires?

If it helps I could post a picture of what I'm proposing before turning on the stove.

kappel15 · Oct 31, 2014

Yep. just stick your jumper wire in female ends of wires Just be careful it doesn't slip and hot wire grounds out on something and toasts your control box. Maybe tape them in place with electrical tape. Be sure to unplug stove when taking off. lol

dmac80 · Oct 31, 2014

ok will do. Will report back this weekend or monday.

Also just spoke on phone with qadra fire dealer they suggested there could be "voids" in the auger area and that I should run the stove for an extended period to get all the voids out so the pellets feed consistently. As I said I've only run the stove for an hour at a time so far. Gonna try that first and if still problems try jumping the vac switch.

kappel15 · Oct 31, 2014

I highly doubt voids. Once stove has been on long enough to have enough pellets to drop to start a fire, the auger is full.

dmac80 · Nov 2, 2014

So I am still having problems but I did learn a few things.

I pulled the stove out of the fireplace and saw the feed assembly shoot on the back. Now I get that the auger is actually pulling pellets UP before sending them down. Duh

Also realized that there is a removable 'access door' on top of the hopper that is accessible with stove pulled out that makes it way easier to manually empty the hopper and see the auger area and understand how the feed rate rod works. I was able to vacuum what I suspect is 100% of the pellets and sawdust from the hopper and feeding auger area. I cleaned all this up, set feed rod to most agressive, disconnected vacuum hose and poked a wire into the nipple on back of feed motor area and put it all back, did a thorough vacuum of entire stove internals, firebox, pulled bricks inside fire box, etc. Fired it up and hit reset 4-5x to get the auger full and it lit.

I noticed right off the bat it's not putting a ton of pellets in on startup but it did light and it get hot enough to start the auger and feed more. It burned for 90 minutes and went up about 6 degrees in the room before dying and shutting down prematurely. I constantly watched it. My observation and opinion is that something is still wrong with the feed rate and or feed system. I have the feed rod in Hopper on most agressive setting for highest rate. I have the fan/speed switch on side set to 'high' yet the amount of pellets at startup and subsequent feed intervals seems lacking. I am noticing the flame occasionally gets to 3-4" above burn pot then dies down at or below the rim of burn pot and goes back up again. I am clearly hearing the auger now it runs every 5 seconds or so and sometimes no pellets come down, but usually as few as 2 and as many as 8 come down. Occasionally the auger will delve from the every 5 seconds run and go 30 seconds without going at all at which point the fire almost goes out then suddenly it starts going and feeding again. When the stove shutdown early the call light was lit, so the thermo is working properly but the auger completely stopped going. It never did start again and the stove eventually just shut off. Something is wrong somewhere and I think now I can rule out a jam in the feed shoot.

Will try jumping vac switch tomorrow.

Other thoughts: rope sealing the door is in BAD shape, did dollar bill test it slides right out of top. will replace this week. Could be a vac issue there? Could be a snap disc issue? Could be a control box issue? Thermocouple issue?

Had the control box replaced a year or two ago it's a clear one, is there a knob on there I can adjust to position 7 for more feed? Thought I read that on here.

Lastly I am using Granules LG with ash rating of .39% I started using this last year which is when nuisance shutdowns became a problem, could it be fuel issue? I doubt it since I'm seeing the feed system stop working properly, unless something with those pellets is causing it.

Quadra Fire Sante Fe insert pellets not feeding, clogged auger/shoot?

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