Wow pellet prices have really gone up!!!

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Regardless of low Oil prices, if I keep my house on 73-74 degrees, I'm gonna go thru Oil Like Grant took Richmond..
Pellet stove keeps us at same temp for cheaper in the long run..
 
SmokeEater if I had 40A of forest the pellet stove would be just for backup.

Yeah its still cheaper buying pellets for now, even here. And certainly if the cost of propane or oil skyrockets again mid season. Though pellets could always do that too. Of course there is the extra hassle with cleaning, and loading, as well as possibly hauling them and stacking/storing. We'll see what happens later, but my stove might not quite pay for itself in one year like I hoped. If prices average anywhere close to last year for propane it would have payed for itself in one year.
 
My propane is already going back up, I never did get any and 2.19 now. Using a couple different home heating calculators, and $250/T for pellets, it seems pellets will save me about 1/3rd or estimated around $1000. So the stove will just about pay for itself this winter. If propane does go up a little more, it will pay for itself for sure and maybe even start making money. Going price around here for a cord of wood though is still saving 1/2 the cost of pellets.
 
SmokeEater if I had 40A of forest the pellet stove would be just for backup.

Yeah its still cheaper buying pellets for now, even here. And certainly if the cost of propane or oil skyrockets again mid season. Though pellets could always do that too. Of course there is the extra hassle with cleaning, and loading, as well as possibly hauling them and stacking/storing. We'll see what happens later, but my stove might not quite pay for itself in one year like I hoped. If prices average anywhere close to last year for propane it would have payed for itself in one year.


I had to replace my 30 year old PowrMatic hot air coal/oil/wood furnace with some an more efficient heat source. I also needed to consider that even though I have more wood to burn than could ever be needed, I had to consider that my age might someday prevent me from harvesting, skidding, bucking, splitting, moving, piling, drying, and loading a gasifier (one of my other choices) with that "free" wood. an efficient coal stoker was seriously considered too. I settled for the two boilers, main heat is the pellet boiler and backup the oil. I bought the Harman new and the dealer's price was $6750. He wanted to move it and had a sale giving me $1000 off. I also received the $100 rebate from Harman. Since installation I have burned over 25 tons of pellets with only normal recommended maintenance. I do still cut and split and sell my hardwood and that helps to buy the pellets and oil.
 
I had to replace my 30 year old PowrMatic hot air coal/oil/wood furnace with some an more efficient heat source. I also needed to consider that even though I have more wood to burn than could ever be needed, I had to consider that my age might someday prevent me from harvesting, skidding, bucking, splitting, moving, piling, drying, and loading a gasifier (one of my other choices) with that "free" wood. an efficient coal stoker was seriously considered too. I settled for the two boilers, main heat is the pellet boiler and backup the oil. I bought the Harman new and the dealer's price was $6750. He wanted to move it and had a sale giving me $1000 off. I also received the $100 rebate from Harman. Since installation I have burned over 25 tons of pellets with only normal recommended maintenance. I do still cut and split and sell my hardwood and that helps to buy the pellets and oil.
Oh no prob SmokeEater, lots of reasons for choosing one over the other just that I would love to have that property by the sounds of it. I'm looking now, but around here just that property would be out of my price range let alone a building on it. Trying to find somewhere with 25A of woods, figure thats a good number for being able to harvest firewood. I found some similar places back your way for sale (well not exactly your way but down closer to Albany, and btw I'm from northern NY myself) that were right there similar to what you have with a nice house I could easily afford. Its amazing the price differences from one area to another. I'd love to move back to NY, but I'm stuck for probably 10 years here in the overcrowded and expensive countryside of Ohio.
 
Propane is very much based on volume. Around here if you use 150 gallons a year, todays price may be $4 per gallon, 400 gallons per year, $3 per gallon, 900 gallons per year, $2, etc. Fuel oil is generally different for residential use. They normally go by gallons per delivery. Up this way you get your price per gallon at 150 gallon orders, or the ability to only order 100 gallons at 10-20 cents higher per gallon.

In CNY there is a HUGE move from fuel oil and kerosene over to high efficiency propane. The ole "well earl burns hotter" theory from the 70's is cancelled out by properly sizing your boiler or furnace. I warned folks to do the math when turning to pellets in order to save money on propane due to the yearly volume criteria that sets the pricing in most cases. (Owning your own 500 or 1000 gallon tank eliminates the volume issues for the most part) I would just show folks the simple math. Keep in mind that I sold propane, pellet and coal fuel and appliances at the time, so I really didn't have an agenda:

You heat your home, domestic hot water with 900 gallons of propane per year. Its currently at $2 per gallon, last winter during the "shortage" people with decent companys were paying a little over $3.00 So, I would call it $2.50 x900 for $2250 for LP. Out of that 900 gallons, 650 for heat, 250 for hot water.

Now, you install a pellet stove and NEVER use LP for heat. Now your usage is 250 gallons at say $3.75 per gallon (You may see a lower PPG on your invoice, but review carefully for surcharges, add them up and divide by gallons delivered to see actual PPG. Don't forget any tank rental fees, etc) Ok, so $3.75x250 is $940ish.

So you just saved about $1300 per year. Now, 650 gallons of LP at 95% efficiency can be replaced by about 4 1/2 tons of pellets, if we are just comparing net BTU per unit at 95 and 78% efficiencies. I will tell them they will pay "about" $225 per ton on average the next few years for decent pellets(barring any "incidents) if they buy smart. So, 4.5x$225 is $1000

So, you spend $2000-$5000 for a stove, gas to haul fuel, work involved, etc to heat with a space heater instead of central heat to save $300 per year.

You can use your own figures to see how the math works out locally.

It is at the point now that folks can swap an oil furnace for an LP furnace, add in some "clean energy" grants in NY for less than a high end pellet stove and really not be spending, net net net much more to heat their homes.

Currently propane tanks are hard to come by as folks are switching to LP at quite a fast rate, and this is after a very tough winter in regards to degree days and LP prices.
 
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Propane is very much based on volume. Around here if you use 150 gallons a year, today price may be $4 per gallon, 400 gallons per year, $3 per gallon, 900 gallons per year, $2, etc. Fuel oil is generally different for residential use. They normally go by gallons per delivery. Up this way you get your price per gallon at 150 gallon orders, or the ability to only order 100 gallons at 10-20 cents higher per gallon.

In CNY there is a HUGE move from fuel oil and kerosene over to high efficiency propane. The ole "well earl burns hotter" theory from the 70's is cancelled out by properly sizing your boiler or furnace. I warned folks to do the math when turning to pellets in order to save money on propane due to the yearly volume criteria that sets the pricing in most cases. (Owning your own 500 or 1000 gallon tank eliminates the volume issues for the most part) I would just show folks the simple math. Keep in mind that I sold propane, pellet and coal fuel and appliances at the time, so I really didn't have an agenda:

You heat your home, domestic hot water with 900 gallons of propane per year. Its currently at $2 per gallon, last winter during the "shortage" people with decent companys were paying a little over $3.00 So, I would call it $2.50 x900 for $2250 for LP. Out of that 900 gallons, 650 for heat, 250 for hot water.

Now, you install a pellet stove and NEVER use LP for heat. Now your usage is 250 gallons at say $3.75 per gallon (You may see a lower PPG on your invoice, but review carefully for surcharges, add them up and divide by gallons delivered to see actual PPG. Don't forget any tank rental fees, etc) Ok, so $3.75x250 is $940ish.

So you just saved about $1300 per year. Now, 650 gallons of LP at 95% efficiency can be replaced by about 4 1/2 tons of pellets, if we are just comparing net BTU per unit at 95 and 78% efficiencies. I will tell them they will pay "about" $225 per ton on average the next few years for decent pellets(barring any "incidents) if they buy smart. So, 4.5x$225 is $1000

So, you spend $2000-$5000 for a stove, gas to haul fuel, work involved, etc to heat with a space heater instead of central heat to save $300 per year.

You can use your own figures to see how the math works out locally.

It is at the point now that folks can swap an oil furnace for an LP furnace, add in some "clean energy" grants in NY for less than a high end pellet stove and really not be spending, net net net much more to heat their homes.

Currently propane tanks are hard to come by as folks are switching to LP at quite a fast rate, and this is after a very tough winter in regards to degree days and LP prices.


Thank you for this. It actually makes good sense.
 
I use pellets for the main reason that to keep our house in the 70-74 degree range, we would use Oil like it's an open faucet
Always had to keep the Thermostat in the high 60's range...
Now we are comfortable 70's for lot cheaper than using Oil..
 
I use pellets for the main reason that to keep our house in the 70-74 degree range, we would use Oil like it's an open faucet
Always had to keep the Thermostat in the high 60's range...
Now we are comfortable 70's for lot cheaper than using Oil..

That is great. Pellets are a great alternative to oil or kerosene.
 
I never saw this so called discount from my propane company, they were probably reaming me over I guess since they owned the tank. I had installed a peerless boiler, wasn't 94% efficient, was more like in the upper 80's probably about 7 years ago. That's still not cheap to install and I'm sure the highly efficient ones are a pretty penny. I've heard of group buying farm discounts or what have you but I never saw any in my area, they were mostly in the northern NH parts I believe, I could be wrong.
 
Propane is very much based on volume. Around here if you use 150 gallons a year, todays price may be $4 per gallon, 400 gallons per year, $3 per gallon, 900 gallons per year, $2, etc. Fuel oil is generally different for residential use. They normally go by gallons per delivery. Up this way you get your price per gallon at 150 gallon orders, or the ability to only order 100 gallons at 10-20 cents higher per gallon.

In CNY there is a HUGE move from fuel oil and kerosene over to high efficiency propane. The ole "well earl burns hotter" theory from the 70's is cancelled out by properly sizing your boiler or furnace. I warned folks to do the math when turning to pellets in order to save money on propane due to the yearly volume criteria that sets the pricing in most cases. (Owning your own 500 or 1000 gallon tank eliminates the volume issues for the most part) I would just show folks the simple math. Keep in mind that I sold propane, pellet and coal fuel and appliances at the time, so I really didn't have an agenda:

You heat your home, domestic hot water with 900 gallons of propane per year. Its currently at $2 per gallon, last winter during the "shortage" people with decent companys were paying a little over $3.00 So, I would call it $2.50 x900 for $2250 for LP. Out of that 900 gallons, 650 for heat, 250 for hot water.

Now, you install a pellet stove and NEVER use LP for heat. Now your usage is 250 gallons at say $3.75 per gallon (You may see a lower PPG on your invoice, but review carefully for surcharges, add them up and divide by gallons delivered to see actual PPG. Don't forget any tank rental fees, etc) Ok, so $3.75x250 is $940ish.

So you just saved about $1300 per year. Now, 650 gallons of LP at 95% efficiency can be replaced by about 4 1/2 tons of pellets, if we are just comparing net BTU per unit at 95 and 78% efficiencies. I will tell them they will pay "about" $225 per ton on average the next few years for decent pellets(barring any "incidents) if they buy smart. So, 4.5x$225 is $1000

So, you spend $2000-$5000 for a stove, gas to haul fuel, work involved, etc to heat with a space heater instead of central heat to save $300 per year.

You can use your own figures to see how the math works out locally.

It is at the point now that folks can swap an oil furnace for an LP furnace, add in some "clean energy" grants in NY for less than a high end pellet stove and really not be spending, net net net much more to heat their homes.

Currently propane tanks are hard to come by as folks are switching to LP at quite a fast rate, and this is after a very tough winter in regards to degree days and LP prices.

That's interesting. certainly is a more complex equation to figure out in your area. Around here, at least with my propane company, bulk delivery is all one price. You get a 10 cent discount if your on auto fill as opposed to 'will call'. I've got from the 150 minimum to 500 gallons in the past (might have pre-bought a little more than 500 one year, can't remember). My water heater is electric so that doesn't influence propane prices. Only thing I'm not sure about is the tank. The propane company owns the tank but I don't believe I've ever paid any kind of rental (previous owners had it put in when they sold the house to us). And never asked if there was a difference in price if I owned a tank or not, since, well I have never paid anything for the current one so never contemplated buying another. Its been empty since last February and I'm going to see if I can keep it that way.
 
Fsappo,
I did my equations. You mentioned the cost of a new stove $2,000 - $5,000 and gas etc; running for pellets. I have a primary or central high efficiency heat pump which sucks for heat to begin with even if electric was cheap. It's OK if you like to stay cool or chilled and pay out the wahzoo for the privilege. Not sure of any rebates here for LP furnaces.

I could get propane out here in next to nowhere but they play way too many games with the pricing, shortages, etc; I would also be willing to bet that once election season is over the prices on LP go up just like they will at the gas pumps. They will likely go up if it's another bad winter due to demand. These are a few reasons I will never get rid of my Outdoor Wood Boiler and wood insert. I can buy good cord wood for a very fair price and have plenty of wood on my farm. If they start jacking pellets up I have an answer for that as well. Everything is relevant with energy and heating. The price of X goes up then the reaction is that price of Y and Z goes up no matter which heat source triggers the event. Notice how a cord of wood costs about the same as a ton of pellets. Both have also increased.

Natural Gas NG is not available anywhere near and oil is higher than giraffe nuts. How long do you think LP will be at it's lower prices? I wouldn't hold my breath on it staying where it is long. And like I've stated they will all go up trying to stay competitive in the energy race.
 
My Mi dealer has propane 1.89 a gal bout a ton of pellets for 235 out the door I have gone thru 5 bags in a mnth so far and come dec /jan propane will be over $2 a gal
 
Try this calculator for your different fuels. Break even for me, with 300 per ton paid for pellets and efficiency rating for my stoves and boiler entered, would come to $2.52 per gallon of oil for the same heating output. This also means no lugging bags, cleaning stoves, dry air etc. just set my temp and oil would do the rest. Oil needs to drop 40 cents for that to happen.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/heatcalc.xls
 
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