Fascinating article about Hardwood vs Softwood pellets.........

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Anybody who has worked with wood knows that not all woods are equal. They differ in more ways than density and moisture content. Some woods have such high mineral content that they quickly dull even carbide cutting tools. Others scorch at much lower temperatures than the rest, still others are so oily that finishes won't adhere to them. I would expect those properties to influence the burn properties of the wood as well.
I doubt that pellets are made from exotic spiecies of wood, but even the intrinsic property differences between Oak and Spruce should lead to different burn characteristics. They are really not made of the same stuff or, at the very least, not in the same proportions.

The caloric content is substantially the parameter that we buy pellets for. It is still not reasonable to say that BTU/$ is the only thing of importance. Differences in the cleanliness (dust and fines), resin and creosote production, ash content and residual ash are also important... at least they are to me.

Just my opinion. You are welcome to your own.

Well said, you've proved me wrong!! I don't do pellets. Hell, I should actually heat with electricity since it's so cheap around here. I just like wood heating and there's no source for pellets where I live so I went with a wood stove.

I do think most people heat with pellets to save money. So for me, most BTUs / $ are what would be important ( I even see threads on this forum about how the prices have risen). And calorimetry would help determine best BTU/ $. From what I understand about pellet stoves (and I could be wrong), some of the factors you mention have to do with the different makes/models of pellet stoves and the burn technologies involved (bottom feed, etc etc).

All that to say, with a woodstove, you've got softwood and hardwood. At the same MC, hardwood burns longer because they are more dense not matter what intrinsic properties you look at.

But I am looking into a pellet stove for my next move and it seems a lot more complicated that a wood stove...may still give it a try though.

Thanks!

Andrew
 
I have burned hardwood in every type of woodstove, I mean 40 different woodstoves. I have burned very little softwood. Hardwood in a woodstove as well as my Wiseway pellet stove decomposes from active flame to deep beds of charcoal and softwood does not, it goes from flame to ash. I believe there is more to the hardwood / softwood debate, there is a difference and the Wiseway demonstrates it, when I burn soft pellets wiseway goes from flame to ash, but when I use hard pellets I get a long burning charcoal bed that is slow to burn away and causes me to have to manage this charcoal accumulation.
 
I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).

Interesting read.

Andrew
I don't believe any binders are included in the pellets. There is binder put into some biomass pellets other than wood because that particular biomass may not have enough or any lignin content. When the sized and dried wood material is put into the pelletizer, the tremendous forces involved heat the material to a fairly high temperature and the lignin in the wood plasticizes and binds the pellet together. Thus no binder needed.
 
I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
Ron
I have read testing procedures using a device to produce very small quantities of pellets, but has many possible variable inputs. Many varieties of wood material was tested and it looks from the data that softwood material, on average, was formed into wood pellets that were somewhat less in density than hardwood material. The beech formed pellets that had an average density of 1.02 g/cm3, while an oak (no variety listed) formed pellets that had a density of 1.2 g/com3. Pine/spruce pellets were compressed to an average density of 1.09 g/cm3. All of these pellets are compressed to a density greater than water. So once the pellet is formed, there is no distinction between hardwood and softwood as far as density goes.
 
this site (linked to, not hearth.com) is a joke. all it's missing is 2342432 pop ups
 
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Frankly Scarlet, ............................... Burn what you can find and can afford.
 
this site is a joke. all it's missing is 2342432 pop ups
How is that? I won't deny that I needed more information and I read up on this subject, admitted I was wrong and moved on. I am planning on moving to pellets in the next few months/year and I thought I knew a bit about pellets but I was mistaken.

Feel free to move along to another website if you think it's "a joke". There's no need for condescending comments towards this site or other forum members.
 
I agree! I posted this subject for an honest discussion, not to have someone make disparaging remarks!!!!
Let's keep this civil or remove the whole thread.
Respectfully, Bill
 
How is that? I won't deny that I needed more information and I read up on this subject, admitted I was wrong and moved on. I am planning on moving to pellets in the next few months/year and I thought I knew a bit about pellets but I was mistaken.

Feel free to move along to another website if you think it's "a joke". There's no need for condescending comments towards this site or other forum members.
i'm referring to the linked resource, not hearth.com
It's an op-ed piece at best

edited my post to be more clear.

I'm all for solid conversations about the topic here and certainly meant no harm by it. Just don't take half of what that site says as fact, because it's not true.
 
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Generally just lurk here, but some subjects I just can't leave alone. FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process. Lake Girl has the best info thus far on the difference between heat output of softwood vs. hardwood. The resins in softwood can contribute to a higher Btu value for softwoods (amount depends on the actual softwood species). Some of these resins are destroyed in the furnish drying process, and some more in the extrusion process, but some remain in the pellets. These resins offgas terpenes and various other volatile organic compounds which is what gives pine its characteristic smell.
Otherwise, the major differences in hardwood vs. softwood are mostly in the vascular structures that transport water and sap. Most other differences (weight, color, density etc.) may be true in most cases, but there are usually exceptions for individual species on both sides. So, SOME species of softwood pellets may produce more heat than SOME species of hardwood pellet, but it is far from a certainty. The VERY BEST softwood pellet will likely produce more Btu/lb than the best hardwood pellet, but the difference will likely be 5% or less.
How much heat you get from your stove is an equation with far more variables than just the Btu value of your pellets. Moisture content is certainly a factor, but the pelleting process itself removes a fairly consistent amount of water, and generally results in pellets coming to you in a pretty narrow and consistent range of moisture content. (Thus you see the generalization on bags of pellets "Less than 5% moisture"). By the way - know what you are looking at with the claimed Btu value that is printed on bags or available on manufacturers websites. Btu value/lb may be figured in two ways - dry value or actual value. Because some heat is necessary to drive off the remaining (< 5%) moisture in a pellet, the Btu value of the pellet as it comes to you is somewhat less than the Btu value figured based on the pellet being absolutely dry. Since your pellets will never be absolutely dry (0% moisture) the dry value Btu rating is essentially worthless. Because Btu value is a selling point, however, some manufacturers like to trumpet the dry basis number as a selling point - a questionable practice at best. I have seen any number of posts here where folks have been tripped up (deceived, actually) by this practice.
Density is important, to a point, as is pellet geometry. I can densify pellets to the point they are nearly bulletproof - they will be extremely hard, super shiny, and darker colored due to the greater heat produced in the extrusion process Better pellet? Not to many folks - they can be harder to ignite and will burn slower. A given weight of wood will require a given amount of air to combust it properly. Therefore, more air is required for a denser pellet to burn properly and completely. The end result for many is incompletely burned pellets (invariably referred to as "ash") being pushed out of the burn pot and accumulating elsewhere. Without an air adjustment, the flame will look lazy, glass will darken quickly, heat output will be low and the stove will require frequent cleaning. Those in the know can adjust their stove and enjoy the benefits of the denser pellet....others will condemn the pellets as "trash"and "full of bark". Which way would you produce them - as good as they can be, or ?
Pellet geometry, especially length, also affects perceived heat output. Your feed auger, working at a set speed, will deliver significantly differing amounts of longer vs. shorter pellets to your burn pot. How different will depend on your particular stove's auger design - diameter and flighting design being especially important. The greater weight of pellets delivered per revolution will obviously produce more heat (again, if and only if, the proper amount of combustion air is provided).
Learning all you can about how your stove operates will be of considerable more value to you quibbling about Btu value of hardwood vs. softwood pellets!
 
FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process.

Thanks for the nod... Wood Science & Technology degree? Does it deal more with the wood science or the instrumentation/machinery used for pelleting or some of both? There's only a few mills in Wisconsin ;)

You forgot the entertainment value of the quibbling ;lol
 
Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview! I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post. The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note. So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.
 
Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview! I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post. The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note. So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.
I have noticed an inverse relationship. The highest BTU/$ is often the cheapest pellets (they may also be the least expensive) . There is more to pellet selection than just BTU/$. They also have the most fines and the highest ash content.
We all have our priorities.
 
Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview! I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post. The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note. So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.
lol
 
Generally just lurk here, but some subjects I just can't leave alone. FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process. Lake Girl has the best info thus far on the difference between heat output of softwood vs. hardwood. The resins in softwood can contribute to a higher Btu value for softwoods (amount depends on the actual softwood species). Some of these resins are destroyed in the furnish drying process, and some more in the extrusion process, but some remain in the pellets. These resins offgas terpenes and various other volatile organic compounds which is what gives pine its characteristic smell.
Otherwise, the major differences in hardwood vs. softwood are mostly in the vascular structures that transport water and sap. Most other differences (weight, color, density etc.) may be true in most cases, but there are usually exceptions for individual species on both sides. So, SOME species of softwood pellets may produce more heat than SOME species of hardwood pellet, but it is far from a certainty. The VERY BEST softwood pellet will likely produce more Btu/lb than the best hardwood pellet, but the difference will likely be 5% or less.
How much heat you get from your stove is an equation with far more variables than just the Btu value of your pellets. Moisture content is certainly a factor, but the pelleting process itself removes a fairly consistent amount of water, and generally results in pellets coming to you in a pretty narrow and consistent range of moisture content. (Thus you see the generalization on bags of pellets "Less than 5% moisture"). By the way - know what you are looking at with the claimed Btu value that is printed on bags or available on manufacturers websites. Btu value/lb may be figured in two ways - dry value or actual value. Because some heat is necessary to drive off the remaining (< 5%) moisture in a pellet, the Btu value of the pellet as it comes to you is somewhat less than the Btu value figured based on the pellet being absolutely dry. Since your pellets will never be absolutely dry (0% moisture) the dry value Btu rating is essentially worthless. Because Btu value is a selling point, however, some manufacturers like to trumpet the dry basis number as a selling point - a questionable practice at best. I have seen any number of posts here where folks have been tripped up (deceived, actually) by this practice.
Density is important, to a point, as is pellet geometry. I can densify pellets to the point they are nearly bulletproof - they will be extremely hard, super shiny, and darker colored due to the greater heat produced in the extrusion process Better pellet? Not to many folks - they can be harder to ignite and will burn slower. A given weight of wood will require a given amount of air to combust it properly. Therefore, more air is required for a denser pellet to burn properly and completely. The end result for many is incompletely burned pellets (invariably referred to as "ash") being pushed out of the burn pot and accumulating elsewhere. Without an air adjustment, the flame will look lazy, glass will darken quickly, heat output will be low and the stove will require frequent cleaning. Those in the know can adjust their stove and enjoy the benefits of the denser pellet....others will condemn the pellets as "trash"and "full of bark". Which way would you produce them - as good as they can be, or ?
Pellet geometry, especially length, also affects perceived heat output. Your feed auger, working at a set speed, will deliver significantly differing amounts of longer vs. shorter pellets to your burn pot. How different will depend on your particular stove's auger design - diameter and flighting design being especially important. The greater weight of pellets delivered per revolution will obviously produce more heat (again, if and only if, the proper amount of combustion air is provided).
Learning all you can about how your stove operates will be of considerable more value to you quibbling about Btu value of hardwood vs. softwood pellets!

That is one of the most intelligent things I read in the last few weeks. Amen!

All that to say, if you don't care about ash content and dust, and are simply looking for the best bang for your $, it's not worth paying $2/bag more for one brand over another ($4 vs $6) .....right?

Andrew
 
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