Best start-up method to burn in a cast iron non-cat

arkyheat1 · Nov 5, 2014

Howdy, Folks. Love the wealth of knowledge and experience on this site.

I'm the happy new owner of a Hearthstone Shelburne stove. It's cast iron with a few soap stone liners. I've had a few fires going in it so far, but nothing hotter than about 450-500...temps haven't dropped below 35 degrees yet in Arkansas so not much need to stoke it up too much.

My question(s) is, is there anything I can change to my process to bring the stove temp up faster so that not as much wood is burned before I start damping down the air supply? And once it's at a high temp, what's the best way to keep it there using the least amount of wood? Stove is sitting on my hearth, vents horizontally into a t-joint, then connects to a stainless liner that goes through my existing (externally-attached) brick chimney. Here are the steps I've been doing to start a new fire in a room-temp stove:

1) Two small round pieces running north/south on the right and left side of the stove. Put some news paper and kindling between those, then run a small split or round east/west on top so that there's some air between the kindling pile and the east/west split. Light and let'er burn with air supply fully open.

2) Once the east/west split starts burning pretty well and has a good glow, I'll throw 2 more small east/west splits/rounds in with air supply still open 100%. After these two steps, it's been taking about 60-90 minutes for the stovetop to hit around 350-400 degrees, BUT, most of the wood from that initial burn has already been turned largely into coals.

3) Add another 3-4 splits with air still fully open to let them catch fire. After 10-15 minutes they are usually roaring, stovetop temp has come up to 450-500 degrees, and I'll then start damping down 25% every 30 minutes or so. Stove temp levels off and comes down as the load of wood burns down to the coals. It will burn for about 3-4 hours down to the coals with the stove temps dropping down to around 250-300. Re-load time.

So, are there some opportunities somewhere to improve the speed of heating the stove up to the 500 degree mark? It's taking me 7-8 pieces of wood to complete this cycle, and I feel like it's taking too long to heat up properly before I get to start damping down the air supply. And then once I DO start damping down, the stove temp will only stay north of 400 degrees for about an hour or so...I'd like to KEEP it above 400 without having to keep adding another piece of wood every hour.

(Side Question - Is it ok to have some big roaring flames going in the stove to try and heat it up quickly? I keep reading about horror stories on over-firing and damaging combustion chambers and liners. The thermometer I use sits on the top middle of the stove close to the pipe...being that this stove is cast iron, I feel like when there are big flames going inside the stove but my thermometer is only reading 150 degrees, that I'm heating up the innards too quickly and may be damaging something even though my thermometer says there's a lot of safe temperature left to climb! Just how durable are these things to sudden heat gains inside?)

I'm very new to this, so any pieces of advice from your techniques would be greatly appreciated!!

Mettlemickey · Nov 5, 2014

I'm a newbie at this myself but... Ive read about the upside down fire being a good way to burn efficiently and get up to temperature quickly.

Ive tried it two or three times and seems to get up to 400 - 500 degrees in about 20-30 mins, using approx 2 good size logs as a base (I'm in the UK so you'd probably say they were quite small still

) Then on top of those 3 - 4 medium logs, with newspaper and kindling on top of that.

This gets it going, like you though, id like to know how to keep it there as i either have to keep throwing wood on, or drop to about 250 degrees. Once I damp the air down its difficult to keep the temperature up.

Mettlemickey · Nov 5, 2014

Try this

http://www.firewood-for-life.com/top-down-fire.html

arkyheat1 · Nov 5, 2014

Mettlemickey said:
I'm a newbie at this myself but... Ive read about the upside down fire being a good way to burn efficiently and get up to temperature quickly.

Ive tried it two or three times and seems to get up to 400 - 500 degrees in about 20-30 mins, using approx 2 good size logs as a base (I'm in the UK so you'd probably say they were quite small still ) Then on top of those 3 - 4 medium logs, with newspaper and kindling on top of that.

This gets it going, like you though, id like to know how to keep it there as i either have to keep throwing wood on, or drop to about 250 degrees. Once I damp the air down its difficult to keep the temperature up.

Thanks for the reply, Mickey. I'll have to try that top down technique. What kind of stove do you have? Is it cast iron or steel?

Woody Stover · Nov 5, 2014

If you have a small fire box, you obviously won't be able to sustain high stove top temps as long as a larger stove can. I have cat stoves but this method should work well in non-cat, I'd think. You want to get the top innards of the stove hot as quickly as possible so that you can get the re-burn going and get to cruise mode. I put bigger stuff in the back of the fire box. In front I'll have some medium splits on the bottom, then smaller stuff above that. I light a couple SuperCedar chunks and lay them on top of the small stuff, then place a couple more kindling on top of the burning starters. This method gets the front/top of the load going and heats the top of the stove to re-burn temps pretty quickly. Even though my stoves aren't big, once they are cruising on some Oak or similar higher-output wood, they'll keep cranking out good heat for quite a few hours.The stove top will be at 450 within short order once I get into cruise, and slowly fall over the rest of the burn. Granted, with a cat stove the wood probably doesn't get to the coaling stage as fast and temps probably fall more slowly.

begreen · Nov 5, 2014

The best method is to follow the manual. According to it the first fire or two should get the stove warm, but no too hot to touch.

page 20 goes into full detail on breaking in the stove:

excerpt:

5. KEEP A WATCHFUL EYE ON YOUR STOVE to maintain a steady, low-heat fire. Your first and subsequent break-in fires should make the stove warm but not hot to the touch. At most, a few small chunks of wood should be added to the fire to reach safe break-in temperatures.

6. Once the stove is warm but not hot to the touch close the primary air control and allow the fire to die out completely.

7. Let the stove return to room temperature. Your first three break-in fires should be built and maintained as outlined above. Your patience will be rewarded by a properly seasoned stove.

Mettlemickey · Nov 5, 2014

I have a Dovre 425 Arky, its cast iron. We installed it in February this year, so had a few fires feb/mar and just started again the last few weeks. Still getting to grips with best starting technique and how to burn most efficiently.

I guess trial and error (with a bit of advice) is part of the fun.

cableman · Nov 5, 2014

I have a shelburne, good stove. Lighting it cold will always use more wood. Once you have a bed of coals and the top is 200 or so stuff it full, let it burn in then start damping down in 20min or so in quarter increments or how ever you feel it does better. If the wood is dry it will cruise up to 550-600 then drop and stay around 350-400. Wont have to reload for 4-8hrs easy depending on how cold it is out. I wasnt any good running it the 1st year, last year was better for me but the wife is home more so who knows whats going on then!

Woody Stover · Nov 5, 2014

cableman said:
I have a shelburne, good stove. Lighting it cold will always use more wood. Once you have a bed of coals and the top is 200 or so stuff it full, let it burn in then start damping down in 20min or so in quarter increments or how ever you feel it does better. If the wood is dry it will cruise up to 550-600 then drop and stay around 350-400. Wont have to reload for 4-8hrs easy depending on how cold it is out. I wasnt any good running it the 1st year, last year was better

OK, I overlooked that he has the Shelburne. With a 2 cu.ft. box, the temps and burn times you're getting sound about right. For sure, there's a learning curve involved with any new stove. Takes some time to figure out how to make it do what you want. Keep the faith, arky.

unhdsm · Nov 5, 2014

I had that stove for three years running all winter. You really aren't far off from where you should be. The first fire cycle isn't as efficient. Once you start loading on a hot coal bed it starts off gassing much quicker. Have fun with your new Shelburne. Sometimes I miss how it looked in my living room.

Sconnie Burner · Nov 5, 2014

I think soapstone stoves are slow to heat up from what I've been reading on here. But once up to temp they maintain it better during 24/7 burning. Remember when you have the primary air wide open this is letting more air into the stove, in turn sending more up the flue. And with it goes the heat. Try a top down fire and damp down sooner. I was surprised how much faster my stove warmed up and went into secondary burns which is where a majority of the heat comes from!

Here's how I do it:
First in the box on the bottom goes 2-4 larger splits (4-5" at the widest spot), then 2-3 or so 2-3" splits, then a little kindling, then a little newspaper, and then a bit more kindling to hold the newspaper from floating around. Light and watch stove top temps close. At 250 I start the firs stage of closing down the air to 2/3 open. At 350 I go down to 1/2 or 1/3 open and then once it hits 450 I close it to just barely open. It will creep up between 600-675, sometimes 700. Slowly drop back to 600 and cruise for quite some time. Each stove will run a little differently so you have to play and see what works .

Think of closing the primary air down more as trapping the heat in the stove. Rather than letting it go up the flue/chimney. Look for dancing flames rather than rapid flames. They should have some separation from the wood at times and be blue near the log. Constant orange flames connected to the log means too much air is entering the stove. If you close down too soon the flames will slowly disappear, not a big deal though just keep opening it up a smig at a time until they come back. It takes some playing and figiting until you figure out how your stove reacts to the adjustments. Good luck!

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

Woody Stover said:
OK, I overlooked that he has the Shelburne. With a 2 cu.ft. box, the temps and burn times you're getting sound about right. For sure, there's a learning curve involved with any new stove. Takes some time to figure out how to make it do what you want. Keep the faith, arky.

Thanks, woody! It's definitely a relationship that must be nourished! I guess because of the over firing stuff I've been reading that I get a little hesitant to see big flames bombard the top of the stove...but it sounds like in order to get that secondary burn going it's got to happen.

Once your secondary is going, do you have to leave your air supply 100% open for a little longer to keep the temps rising! or will the stove still heat up more if secondaries are going and you start damping down?

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

cableman said:
I have a shelburne, good stove. Lighting it cold will always use more wood. Once you have a bed of coals and the top is 200 or so stuff it full, let it burn in then start damping down in 20min or so in quarter increments or how ever you feel it does better. If the wood is dry it will cruise up to 550-600 then drop and stay around 350-400. Wont have to reload for 4-8hrs easy depending on how cold it is out. I wasnt any good running it the 1st year, last year was better for me but the wife is home more so who knows whats going on then!

That's helpful cableman, and makes sense. This is the primary heat source in my house, so it's not uncommon for the house to be 50-55 degrees when I get home, which means the stove is pretty cool starting out. I haven't had the opportunity yet to reload it more than two times once a fire got started.

In your experience, have you had any issues leaving your stove running hot overnight or loading it up in the morning before you leave for the day? Mine hasn't appeared to be too temperamental yet...if it gets to 400+, it seems to be pretty good about not rising any more if I damp it down.

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

begreen said:
The best method is to follow the manual. According to it the first fire or two should get the stove warm, but no too hot to touch.

page 20 goes into full detail on breaking in the stove:

excerpt:

5. KEEP A WATCHFUL EYE ON YOUR STOVE to maintain a steady, low-heat fire. Your first and subsequent break-in fires should make the stove warm but not hot to the touch. At most, a few small chunks of wood should be added to the fire to reach safe break-in temperatures.

6. Once the stove is warm but not hot to the touch close the primary air control and allow the fire to die out completely.

7. Let the stove return to room temperature. Your first three break-in fires should be built and maintained as outlined above. Your patience will be rewarded by a properly seasoned stove.

Thanks, begreen. I kept to those guidelines for the 1st 3 fires that I lit in it. Never let it get above 150-200. Now that it's broken in, is it ok to have that roaring flame firebox for a few minutes while the stove is getting up to temp? Manual says the best thing for the stove is to have some flame but not a huge flame most of the time, so I've been hesitant to let the roar happen for too long in fear that it might damage the combustion panels at the top of the box.

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

unhdsm said:
I had that stove for three years running all winter. You really aren't far off from where you should be. The first fire cycle isn't as efficient. Once you start loading on a hot coal bed it starts off gassing much quicker. Have fun with your new Shelburne. Sometimes I miss how it looked in my living room.

Unhdsm, love it so far. Wondering if I should have gone a little larger with the Manchester, but will find out when temps get "cold" (arkansas isn't known for many sub-20 degree nights)

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

Sconnie Burner said:
I think soapstone stoves are slow to heat up from what I've been reading on here. But once up to temp they maintain it better during 24/7 burning. Remember when you have the primary air wide open this is letting more air into the stove, in turn sending more up the flue. And with it goes the heat. Try a top down fire and damp down sooner. I was surprised how much faster my stove warmed up and went into secondary burns which is where a majority of the heat comes from!

Here's how I do it:
First in the box on the bottom goes 2-4 larger splits (4-5" at the widest spot), then 2-3 or so 2-3" splits, then a little kindling, then a little newspaper, and then a bit more kindling to hold the newspaper from floating around. Light and watch stove top temps close. At 250 I start the firs stage of closing down the air to 2/3 open. At 350 I go down to 1/2 or 1/3 open and then once it hits 450 I close it to just barely open. It will creep up between 600-675, sometimes 700. Slowly drop back to 600 and cruise for quite some time. Each stove will run a little differently so you have to play and see what works .

Think of closing the primary air down more as trapping the heat in the stove. Rather than letting it go up the flue/chimney. Look for dancing flames rather than rapid flames. They should have some separation from the wood at times and be blue near the log. Constant orange flames connected to the log means too much air is entering the stove. If you close down too soon the flames will slowly disappear, not a big deal though just keep opening it up a smig at a time until they come back. It takes some playing and figiting until you figure out how your stove reacts to the adjustments. Good luck!

Thanks, Sconnie! Great stuff and seconds what some other folks have said. Think it'll be chilly enough tonight to light up, so I'm gonna try out this top down approach. All my wood is 16-18" right now, so I'm gonna raise a sweat this weekend sawing up a bucket full of starter splits.

CTSoxFan · Nov 6, 2014

I have a similar question for startup fires in my Manchester. Theoretically, I'm a believer in the top-down method, and it seems to have worked well for my first couple of fires. What I'm wondering is, when starting a top-down fire, am I better off loading the firebox full from the beginning? I'm wondering if I would get up to temp quicker and have better burn times if I started the fire with only a couple of splits and then loaded the stove once the initial "start up" fire burned down to give me a nice coal bed.

unhdsm · Nov 6, 2014

arkyheat1 said:
Unhdsm, love it so far. Wondering if I should have gone a little larger with the Manchester, but will find out when temps get "cold" (arkansas isn't known for many sub-20 degree nights)

Mine started struggling to keep up at minus 10 degrees, which seemed like most nights last winter at my house.

mass_burner · Nov 6, 2014

To the PO, I have cast iron stoves smaller than 2 cu. Ft. I always load all at once and turn the air down about 20 minutes or so afterwards. I adjust the air to keep the low lazy flames going. My stove temps hover about 450-550. I only reload when I can reduce the hot coals to flat layer, then I reload full again.

Sconnie Burner · Nov 6, 2014

arkyheat1 said:
Thanks Sconnie! Great stuff and seconds what some other folks have said. Think it'll be chilly enough tonight to light up, so I'm gonna try out this top down approach. All my wood is 16-18" right now, so I'm gonna raise a sweat this weekend sawing up a bucket full of starter splits.

My splits are all still 16" long still, they are just smaller in diameter as I get closer to the top of the fire box. I do have some ends from wood that was too long and those work great for quick heat! I wouldn't go crazy to make a bunch though. Get some smaller diameter stuff and load it somewhat full. Start slow until you figure out how many/much its going to take. Its all relative to wood moisture and how much draft you get going. Search top down fire and you will see most people have their box loaded at least 1/2-3/4 full.

Grisu · Nov 6, 2014

arkyheat1 said:
Howdy, Folks. Love the wealth of knowledge and experience on this site.

I'm the happy new owner of a Hearthstone Shelburne stove. It's cast iron with a few soap stone liners. I've had a few fires going in it so far, but nothing hotter than about 450-500...temps haven't dropped below 35 degrees yet in Arkansas so not much need to stoke it up too much.

My question(s) is, is there anything I can change to my process to bring the stove temp up faster so that not as much wood is burned before I start damping down the air supply? And once it's at a high temp, what's the best way to keep it there using the least amount of wood? Stove is sitting on my hearth, vents horizontally into a t-joint, then connects to a stainless liner that goes through my existing (externally-attached) brick chimney. Here are the steps I've been doing to start a new fire in a room-temp stove:

1) Two small round pieces running north/south on the right and left side of the stove. Put some news paper and kindling between those, then run a small split or round east/west on top so that there's some air between the kindling pile and the east/west split. Light and let'er burn with air supply fully open.

2) Once the east/west split starts burning pretty well and has a good glow, I'll throw 2 more small east/west splits/rounds in with air supply still open 100%. After these two steps, it's been taking about 60-90 minutes for the stovetop to hit around 350-400 degrees, BUT, most of the wood from that initial burn has already been turned largely into coals.

3) Add another 3-4 splits with air still fully open to let them catch fire. After 10-15 minutes they are usually roaring, stovetop temp has come up to 450-500 degrees, and I'll then start damping down 25% every 30 minutes or so. Stove temp levels off and comes down as the load of wood burns down to the coals. It will burn for about 3-4 hours down to the coals with the stove temps dropping down to around 250-300. Re-load time.

So, are there some opportunities somewhere to improve the speed of heating the stove up to the 500 degree mark? It's taking me 7-8 pieces of wood to complete this cycle, and I feel like it's taking too long to heat up properly before I get to start damping down the air supply. And then once I DO start damping down, the stove temp will only stay north of 400 degrees for about an hour or so...I'd like to KEEP it above 400 without having to keep adding another piece of wood every hour.

(Side Question - Is it ok to have some big roaring flames going in the stove to try and heat it up quickly? I keep reading about horror stories on over-firing and damaging combustion chambers and liners. The thermometer I use sits on the top middle of the stove close to the pipe...being that this stove is cast iron, I feel like when there are big flames going inside the stove but my thermometer is only reading 150 degrees, that I'm heating up the innards too quickly and may be damaging something even though my thermometer says there's a lot of safe temperature left to climb! Just how durable are these things to sudden heat gains inside?)

I'm very new to this, so any pieces of advice from your techniques would be greatly appreciated!!

First, you want to sacrifice some heat to the outdoors in a start-up fire to get the flue warmed up. To minimize creosote it needs to be above 250 F all the way to the top. If you have a non-insulated liner in an exterior brick chimney that will take some heat.

For my start-up fires I fill my similar sized firebox about 1/3 full and burn it about 20 min with the air fully open, then close it to about 1/2 and let it burn down to mostly coals for about another hour. Then I rake the coals forward, pack the firebox completely full up to about 1" under the baffle. With the door slightly ajar I wait until the wood has caught fire, close the door and let it burn for a few minutes until the wood is burning well. Then I close the air in increments over the next 10 to 20 min: Close air until flames become slow moving ("lazy"), wait a few minutes for the fire to pick up again, then reduce air again some more and so on. At the end my air is usually fully closed and I have strong secondaries in the top of the firebox. With good hardwood I don't need to touch the stove for another 6 to 8 hours then (or 10 to 12 hours for an overnight burns with still plenty of hot coals in the morning).

Looking at your procedure, I think you are waiting a bit too long to turn down the air when the stove is already warmed up. About a quarter every 30 min should not be necessary with dry wood and good draft. Modern stoves are a bit counterintuitive as they get hotter when turning down the air (unless you overdo it and snuff out the fire). By restricting the air, you keep more heat in the stove and also enable the more efficient "secondary burn" in the top of the firebox.

mstoelton · Nov 6, 2014

I can confirm that the soapstone stoves take longer to heat-up. Based on my experience they are a little harder to overfire as well. Get a lazer thermometer to check you stove temps and don't reload above 400 and you should be fine. Do you have a blocking plate in your chimney? They really help the stove efficiency in terms of heating the space.

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

Sconnie Burner said:
My splits are all still 16" long still, they are just smaller in diameter as I get closer to the top of the fire box. I do have some ends from wood that was too long and those work great for quick heat! I wouldn't go crazy to make a bunch though. Get some smaller diameter stuff and load it somewhat full. Start slow until you figure out how many/much its going to take. Its all relative to wood moisture and how much draft you get going. Search top down fire and you will see most people have their box loaded at least 1/2-3/4 full.

Thanks for clarifying that...i've got to learn the lingo!

Grisu · Nov 6, 2014

CTSoxFan said:
I have a similar question for startup fires in my Manchester. Theoretically, I'm a believer in the top-down method, and it seems to have worked well for my first couple of fires. What I'm wondering is, when starting a top-down fire, am I better off loading the firebox full from the beginning? I'm wondering if I would get up to temp quicker and have better burn times if I started the fire with only a couple of splits and then loaded the stove once the initial "start up" fire burned down to give me a nice coal bed.

Try it out and see what works better and fits more easily in your schedule. Each stove and installation is a bit different. I have experimented with top-down a bit but went back to bottom-up as I can get a full blazing fire going more quickly meaning less time for me to sit in front of the stove. Yes, it makes more smoke but with the dry white pine I am using that's not much of an issue.

arkyheat1 · Nov 6, 2014

Grisu said:
First, you want to sacrifice some heat to the outdoors in a start-up fire to get the flue warmed up. To minimize creosote it needs to be above 250 F all the way to the top. If you have a non-insulated liner in an exterior brick chimney that will take some heat.

For my start-up fires I fill my similar sized firebox about 1/3 full and burn it about 20 min with the air fully open, then close it to about 1/2 and let it burn down to mostly coals for about another hour. Then I rake the coals forward, pack the firebox completely full up to about 1" under the baffle. With the door slightly ajar I wait until the wood has caught fire, close the door and let it burn for a few minutes until the wood is burning well. Then I close the air in increments over the next 10 to 20 min: Close air until flames become slow moving ("lazy"), wait a few minutes for the fire to pick up again, then reduce air again some more and so on. At the end my air is usually fully closed and I have strong secondaries in the top of the firebox. With good hardwood I don't need to touch the stove for another 6 to 8 hours then (or 10 to 12 hours for an overnight burns with still plenty of hot coals in the morning).

Looking at your procedure, I think you are waiting a bit too long to turn down the air when the stove is already warmed up. About a quarter every 30 min should not be necessary with dry wood and good draft. Modern stoves are a bit counterintuitive as they get hotter when turning down the air (unless you overdo it and snuff out the fire). By restricting the air, you keep more heat in the stove and also enable the more efficient "secondary burn" in the top of the firebox.

Thanks, Grisu. My liner is insulated, but the entire 25ft length of the chimney is exterior. I play around with your suggestions and force myself to start closing the air supply down a little sooner to see if it helps out. I need to get another thermometer to monitor the pipe temps.

Best start-up method to burn in a cast iron non-cat

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