P43 owners???

rdubs20 said:

I am looking at purchasing a harman P43 but I am a little concerned if it will heat my house. My house is 1800 square feet older 2 story house with decent insulation and 8 1/2 ft ceilings. I know that its rated at heating up to 2400 but I don't know that it will handle that much. I have called 4 different harman dealers and one said that it wouldn't heat it and other 3 said it would with no problem. Not sure who to believe. I have been searching the forums for a few weeks now, but I could not find any concrete answers. One thing I did find is that most people who have the P43 really like it, so that is good to know. Thanks

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ok...
we have a 1400 sq 2 story house...Not well Insulated...
Our Harman dealer said a P43 would be fine....
Told him we wanted to get heat upstairs also.[ steps to 2nd floor are about 20 some feet perpendicular to the stove...
we decided on the P61A ...It was the correct move.....Upstairs stays a steady 68 degrees.... I did put a ceiling fan at the top of the steps and we keep it on low speed/clockwise, 24/7.
this is to not so much pull warm air up but it actually Pushes the Upstairs cooler air downward towards the stove..
I know this sounds bass akwards but it does work.. check the posts here and most will agree that from wherever your fan is the idea is to Push the cold air towards the stove creating a warm loop.
Also went with the P61A Due to it's larger hopper[72pounds] and the over large Ash pan.. hope this helps...Either free standing Harman is a breeze to maintain and clean..
BTW: Keep in mind Our P61 has never been higher than half blower speed...At highest fan speed we would melt walls downstairs...
Wife takes frozen meat out of freezer and puts it on a plate in the dining room table to defrost in the winter. True...

go with the bigger stove. the p43 is great but it's definitely better for a smaller space.

I heat 1800 sq ft with a P61, older house so so insulation , good windows and doors. A bit drafty given the right conditions in cold weather. Last winter we pushed theP61 up to about 2/3 of it's output a couple of times in some winter storm aftermaths with high winds and low temps but generally in the average cold around here that doesn't happen. I could see a P43 getting maxed out for sure in our house, though it is a little tighter this year. I'd say an Enviro M55 is someplace in between the P43 and a P61. But you might want to check with your dealer and see if the P61 is really not in the NYS program. I can't imagine that. Anyway the steel M55 would be closest to a P series Harman. The cast version most like a Harman XXV.

The amount of square feet a stove will heat is a rough guess at best. It all depends on how good your insulation is and how well it is sealed against drafts. I heat my 2250 sq ft house with a P43 or a 50,000 propane furnace and either one does a good job of keeping it warm in any weather BUT my house is extremely well insulated. Without knowing how well insulated your house is a statement about whether or not a unit will heat it is just sales talk. Judging from my p43 usage I would think it would have trouble heating a 10 x 20 tent (you might need 2 if it's windy) or easily heat a 3000 sq ft post and beam house insulated with foam to r30 in the walls and r80 in the ceiling. If your house is insulated well the p43 will do a great job. If it isn't a p68 may not do it. In my opinion insulation is where the real money savings is.
Ron

My P43 heats my 2 story home built in 1860 with no insulation in the walls and original windows. I have an oil burner also but I don't use it.

rdubs20 said:

thanks I will double check it would be nice if it was on the list. If not I guess it will have to be the enviro 55 or hampton 60

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In light of what others are saying I will reiterate that in "my " 1800 sq ft house the P61 was a good choice and in the severest of weather I think a P43 would be maxed out. However , I did not say it would not heat my 1800 sq ft house. Day in and day out I imagine it would work about like the P61 does because here on Cape Cod we do have some mild days and very average winter days. This isn't Alaska down here but it is New England so we get the brutal storms and a dip of around 0 or -6 now and then with wind... Cape Cod can be very windy. The P61 has the reserve for that weather and runs maybe 2/3 of capacity in "my" house in certain weather conditions. 43000 btu vs 61000 btu says to me that 43000 would work OK most of the winter here and struggle in the rough stuff.. 50000 would run near capacity at times but do fine.

Also if you have a 5000 btu unit putting out 85% efficiency and a 61000 btu unit putting out 78% you are narrowing the gap to pretty much the same thing. Just sayin.

We bought the p61 for two reasons. We knew we would need the capacity at times from experience with burning coal. Secondly our house configuration means we needed some heat from the side of the stove and the p61 or any P radiates heat as well as blows convection air. A win win for us. And when that stove is cranking it bails some pretty darned good heat off its sides by radiating it. Turned out to be the right choice for us. We took long enough to think on it, we weighed convection against a combo convection/radiating and we weighed insert against free standing. It took us a couple of months to decide, a lot of research and comparison. The final cap on the deal was one day the installer/tech was at the store holding down the ship alone on Sunday and he showed us the cleaning procedure between different stoves. The P Harman's won that episode hands down. Everything just kept pointing at the P61 and that's what we own now..

I am currently heating a 2,300 SQ FT two story home with a P68. It is doing it well and we have seen some nights in the 20's already with daily highs in the 40's. My place has good insulation but high vaulted ceilings, many big windows, and glass doors so there is some R-Value and extra space heated loss with my situation. I have 6" to 8" thick walls also which helps. Timber frame. I agree with what many above are saying about the larger stoves.

Sure the P-43 will heat without trouble but when it gets cold and stays cold I feel it would be maxed out and your inside temps may drop. I think it would struggle during the cold snaps that can last who knows how long? Days? Weeks? 3 months? In Up State NY you all can experience some long and cold winters. I am not pushing a P68 but I feel you should seriously consider the P61 at least. I am newer to pellet stoves but I have heated with wood for decades so I do have some experience with heating with stoves in general. When they struggle etc;

You can pull a smaller ski boat with a V-6 car struggling up the hills but it is much easier to do with a 1 ton diesel pickup and likely more efficient overall. With what I have noted about what I am heating with my P68 I am also looking for another smaller stove now. I want to heat another area of my home which will also help warm the far reaches of what I am doing now with the P68. My place is bigger than the 2,300 SQ FT core we are currently heating with the one stove. The farther from the stove you get the cooler.

Best of luck! I'd ask a lot of questions about that P43 only tax credit and why it would not apply to the 61 or 68. That is totally stupid! Maybe a 61 could be slipped into a 43 box on a skid? LOL! Then again, red tape and ignorant bass akward methods screw us every day. I refuse to understand how the powers that be can pick and chose like that. Bottom line, I think it should apply to all pellet stoves that meet 'X' percentage for an efficiency rating.

Just looked up the p series manual, p61 and p68 are listed as N/A in "particulate emissions rating". This must be the reason they dont qualify.

That whole $1000 rebate will be eaten by the installation costs. Can you install the larger unit by yourself? It may be even cheaper than going through the rebate process.

IF, I recall correctly, the P68 has a higher efficiency rating than the P43. 86% ???? It must be the emissions stuff. Not sure.

rdubs20 said:

That is a good point about the install costs. In order to get the rebate you have to have a qualified tech install it. Thats probably where they get you. I am fairly handy. How hard is the install?

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Basic tools, a friend, some beer, a tube of silicone, you tube and the owner's manual is all you need. Very easy if you have ever touched a tool and not hurt yourself.

I did my own install but I am a design build contractor so it was very easy. The installs are not hard to do at all for anyone as long as you have the will to do it. The hardest part is getting the heavy unit into where it goes.

What type of construction is your home and what does the exterior wall consist of where you plan on locating it? If you can read a tape measure, level, and operate a power tool you should not have any problems. Along with reading the instructions included. I saved a boat load of cash like others here doing a self install. Not real hard at all.

X2 what Jason stated. I used a furniture dolly and rolled mine into the house. Again easy. You can buy these at Harbor Freight for $12-$19 and they come in handy for other applications also. Like I said, the hardest part was getting it out of my pickup and I did that with one other guy. Pull it out and straight down. Would have been easy with some slings and my tractor but I didn't even do that. Would have taken more time.

I have a utility trailer with drop down tail gate that creates a ramp . I use that for trash, pellets, lumber, you name it. And hauling my garden tractor, snow blower etc. It's rated right at 1 ton for those wondering ! Anyway I used a two wheeled dolly ( aka Hand Cart/ Two Wheeler) , some straps to tie the stove into the trailer and around the dolly once at home. I put that ramp down on my front steps, my wife shoved the stove to me as I yanked it back onto the two wheeler and we rolled the stove off the trailer together and into the living room. I did my own install. I had quotes between $500 and $750 plus materials for a fireplace install with liner up the chimney 26 ft. We were knocking on a $1200 install between labor and parts. I saved the labor plus had a Harman rebate. The only mistake I made was buying the materials for the install from the dealer instead of online. I could have saved another $200. We installed the stove in about two hours and had it running over night that first night.. Course that doesn't include ripping out the old coal stove and cleanup we did that morning.

Through the wall takes less materials cost. And a little thought about vent placement and wall cuts. But no big deal if you can use an electric drill and a saw or two ( people say power saw but hand saws still do work as well), most home owners have a circular saw and saber saw kicking around the house.. If you have to go through concrete that takes a little more persistence and you might have to rent a core drill and bit..

alternativeheat said:

I have a utility trailer with drop down tail gate that creates a ramp . I use that for trash, pellets, lumber, you name it. And hauling my garden tractor, snow blower etc. It's rated right at 1 ton for those wondering ! Anyway I used a two wheeled dolly ( aka Hand Cart/ Two Wheeler) , some straps to tie the stove into the trailer and around the dolly once at home. I put that ramp down on my front steps, my wife shoved the stove to me as I yanked it back onto the two wheeler and we rolled the stove off the trailer together and into the living room. I did my own install. I had quotes between $500 and $750 plus materials for a fireplace install with liner up the chimney 26 ft. We were knocking on a $1200 install between labor and parts. I saved the labor plus had a Harman rebate. The only mistake I made was buying the materials for the install from the dealer instead of online. I could have saved another $200. We installed the stove in about two hours and had it running over night that first night.. Course that doesn't include ripping out the old coal stove and cleanup we did that morning.

Through the wall takes less materials cost. And a little thought about vent placement and wall cuts. But no big deal if you can use an electric drill and a saw or two ( people say power saw but hand saws still do work as well), most home owners have a circular saw and saber saw kicking around the house.. If you have to go through concrete that takes a little more persistence and you might have to rent a core drill and bit..

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Altenativeheat,
Yea, I have a 6' x 12' trailer also with a ramp gate and that is the way to go without a doubt. rdubs20 could rent or borrow one possibly? What happen to me is I was just going to look and had been for some time and was not planning on the purchase that day but I happened to be in one of my trucks. Well, I left with one......... Was tired of tire kicking and like you had it fired up the night of the install.

rdubs20 said:

That doesn't sound to bad. I have a dolly and a trailer with a ramp. I can't see paying someone that kind of money to do the install if its that simple. I am just going to go through a wall to vent, so there would be no concrete in the mix. Wheres the best place online to order the necessary piping and oak from? any suggestions?

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I didn't mention we already had the hearth from the coal stove and fireplace. Some folks get fancy about this aspect of the install, some don't. But mine was there so we just plunked the stove down on it.

Some dealers don't gouge too badly, I'd price with your dealer first. Some folks might chime in on where online is a good place to buy from though. My dealer gets top dollar for everything. Although he gave me a break on a trim kit for the stove.