Carbon monoxide emergencies related to wood fired appliances

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Dieselhead

Minister of Fire
Feb 21, 2011
914
NE
as a member of the fire service I feel obligated to relay the following incidents I have responded to over the last few weeks involving wood stoves and carbon monoxide in the home.

Case 1:
Newer epa stove in a home located in a rear sun porch. This call had 375 parts per million (ppm) in the home. The stove had an approximately 15 ft double wall flue which exited straight up through a low pitch roof . The call came to us as a carbon monoxide alarm sounding with 3 people in the home with no medical conditions reported. We brought our meters into the house and found the lethal amount of CO, and traced it to the wood stove that was in its coaling stage and apparently lost its draft which in turn made the products of combustion enter the home instead of following the flue up which it normally would. We emptied the stove, vented the house to bring it to acceptable levels and turned it back over to the homeowners and advised them to consult a professional to have them inspect the pipe and take corrective actions.

Case 2:
Reported CO alarm sounding with a "funny smell" in the residence. Upon arrival we metered the house and upon entering the front door our meter went into alarm letting us know there was a high level of CO in the house. We went on air (self contained breathing apparatus) and continued in to find the source was once again a older pre EPA wood stove in the coaling stage had lost its draft sending products of combustion into the home instead of up the flue. This was a raised ranch style home with a free standing stove in the finished basement family room. Single wall pipe coming off the top, 90 degree elbow into a wall thimble which connected into a exterior cinder block masonry chiminey.

We rate anything above 35 ppm excessive and have to go on supplied breathing air to enter the home for our safety. Less then 10 ppm in a home that is closed up in the winter is in the "acceptable" range. Case #2 had 450 ppm. There were 4 residents and a few pets in the home. Both cases were between 6am and 845 am. Most likely a low, slow overnight burn where the draft kicked out when the stack temp dropped.

This is just a reminder to everyone on the board to both install AND MAINTAIN carbon monoxide and smoke detectors! Had it not been for the homeowners having a CO detector the outcome could have been very different! Remember CO is colorless and odorless. While 1 of our calls had a slight odor in the home had it been 2am when everyone was sleeping chances are it would have gone unnoticed.

Burn safe folks!
 
Thank you.

I'm curious if these were new installs, or existing setups that had previously been venting normally for some time. I would welcome any discussion on what conditions lead to draft reversal, though I know it's been discussed before here.
 
Thank you.

I'm curious if these were new installs, or existing setups that had previously been venting normally for some time. I would welcome any discussion on what conditions lead to draft reversal, though I know it's been discussed before here.
1st case I'm not sure on the age of the install. To my untrained eye it didn't look brand new. It was a VC stove that was a few years old looking.


The 2nd incident was a install that had been in place for a while. Homeowner stated she had done nothing differently then what was done in the past. It was however on the coldest morning of the year. A new load of wood was delivered who knows how seasoned, etc. speculation makes me think this could have been a contributing factor. Along with a somewhat dirty flue but once again, just speculation on my part.
 
It was however on the coldest morning of the year. A new load of wood was delivered who knows how seasoned, etc. speculation makes me think this could have been a contributing factor. Along with a somewhat dirty flue but once again, just speculation on my part.

By the time it gets to the coal stage the original moisture content has no bearing on it and the colder it is out side the less chance of loosing draft. That is a weird set of circumstances wonder what caused it? I know the last one we wnt to after the fire company we found they just remodeled the kitchen and put in a monster exhaust hood and that put the house into a major negative pressure situation
 
Thanks for posting this reminder. CO is not to be taken lightly.
 
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Three or four years ago I had a big load of coals in the firebox one Saturday and had spent a lot of time cooking with the range hood running. As I do sometimes I passed by the CO detector and hit the button for highest recorded reading, which had never been over zero, and it was high just not high enough to set off the alarm yet.
 
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And yes thank you i am not questioning your evaluation that case just sounds funny seems like something else might be causing it.
 
I have to wonder if when they burned down and the central heat blowers kicked if it didn't pull the CO from the stoves.

10-4 on the need to have detectors. About age time to replace mine and this is a good reminder.

Thanks
 
Good reminder thanks.

I got a few of the them fancy Dancy meters dotted about.
 
Well when the stack temps drops so wont the draft. Fumes could then vent out the air intake holes maybe..for sure if you get some down drafts through the flue or like was said.some fans sucking fumes out those same intake holes.

Great reminder to check your alarms nonetheless!
 
Yikes! Thanks for that report. It had never occurred to me that you could get CO poisoning from a wood stove. I had thought that all the CO would just go up the pipe.
 
Another set of situations where an OAK may have prevented CO from entering the living space. I installed two CO detectors this year. One about 15' from the stove, the other upstairs at the top of the stairs.
 
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Man, those two cases were fortunate to have installed CO detectors. The levels of CO you mentioned could have been deadly in short order.

Carbon monoxide being a tasteless, colorless, odorless gas makes a detector a "must have" in my opinion. Well, I guess if you live in Hawaii and leave all your doors and windows open year round you would be fine, but then your probably not reading this.
 
A trip to Lowes is in order.....have Smoke Detectors, and only one CO Detector outside the Furnace Room (lower level)....need to get one for the bedroom hallway....Thanks for the warning:cool:
 
Might as well mention this . . .

Smoke detectors should be changed out every 10 years . . . the whole kit and caboodle . . . not just the battery.

CO detectors should be changed out every 3-7 years . . . depends on the manufacturer's recommendations.
 
Might as well mention this . . .

Smoke detectors should be changed out every 10 years . . . the whole kit and caboodle . . . not just the battery.

CO detectors should be changed out every 3-7 years . . . depends on the manufacturer's recommendations.

The 2006 vintage detectors that came in our house have a 'Logan's Run' style failsafe, and will chirp at ~10yrs regardless of battery.
 
Might as well mention this . . .

Smoke detectors should be changed out every 10 years . . . the whole kit and caboodle . . . not just the battery.

CO detectors should be changed out every 3-7 years . . . depends on the manufacturer's recommendations.

YES, very true. My Dad has detectors laying around his house that are easily 20 years old. Says he just changes the batteries. _g ;sick

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Some of the newer detectors are nice as they have sealed lithium batteries and require no maintenance. :) They are good for 10 years (the battery). The detectors are good for 7 years.

We have 3 CO detectors in the house. And a smoke alarm in every room.


Do the math.... a $24.00 detector lasting 7 years is LESS than a penny a day for SAFETY!:cool:





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CO detectors make a GREAT Christmas gift for those you know who have ANY appliance that burns fossil fuel.;)
 
I don't have any CO detectors and realize I need one (or more) ASAP. Anyone care to recommend a particular unit that has served them well? What about placement - where are the best places to put them?
 
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Actually I was about to post on placement of CO detectors. When I bought my first one 6 yrs. ago there was no info on placement. I checked again recently and the best is a few feet from the top of the ceiling and not too close to the burning appliance. CO is lighter than air but very close to it and will mix in with the air and rise as heated air rises. If you have a unit with a digital read-out, it should be at eye level.

That's the info I have read but willing to listen to experts as half the stuff on the internet is BS these days. ;hm
 
Oops, forgot to add that my first unit was battery operated and was flaky. I returned it and got an AC unit. I expect they are vastly improved these days. Even the AC unit I own will sound an alarm after it's life expectancy is up.
 
Actually I was about to post on placement of CO detectors. When I bought my first one 6 yrs. ago there was no info on placement. I checked again recently and the best is a few feet from the top of the ceiling and not too close to the burning appliance. CO is lighter than air but very close to it and will mix in with the air and rise as heated air rises. If you have a unit with a digital read-out, it should be at eye level.

That's the info I have read but willing to listen to experts as half the stuff on the internet is BS these days. ;hm[/quote

That is correct. I can't remember exact numbers without looking.
 
Should I install a CO monitor in the room with the woodstove. I already have 2 in the house. One in the bedroom and one in the room where the furnace is located.

Any recommendations on brands/models?
 
Just wanted to confirm what DougA said but it didn't post.

Decided to look again to be sure and came across a recent study that concluded CO mixes so well with air it does not matter where you place the detector from floor to ceiling.

Just my thoughts but since chances are CO will likely be with heated air and is slightly lighter the ceiling should have a slight edge on detecting it quicker?
 
YES, very true. My Dad has detectors laying around his house that are easily 20 years old. Says he just changes the batteries. _g ;sick

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Some of the newer detectors are nice as they have sealed lithium batteries and require no maintenance. :) They are good for 10 years (the battery). The detectors are good for 7 years.

We have 3 CO detectors in the house. And a smoke alarm in every room.


Do the math.... a $24.00 detector lasting 7 years is LESS than a penny a day for SAFETY!:cool:.

What factor limits the lifespan? There are no moving parts. Half-life of the radioactive sensor or something?
 
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