Actual burn time on Englander NC-30

TomatoLover · Nov 17, 2014

We thought we could make it to spring before installing a second stove. However, the dragon in the basement is devouring the wood, and at this rate, we'll chew through our cords before February. We are fairly settled on the Englander NC-30.

Since our only experience is with the prehistoric dragon in the basement, we have some questions regarding how a new NC-30 might compare to the dragon. I know it depends on a lot of factors, but....

1. We can get no more than a 3 hour burn time in our dragon. We are now burning seasoned hard maple, black birch, and oak. Small or large loads, the stove is cold within 5 hours. Stove top temp is back to zero. I realize mileage may vary, but is there an average we can expect with regard to burn times and heat output with an NC-30?

2. We have tried BioBricks and HomeFires all-nighter logs for longer burn times. Our optimal burn on the dragon is 550-650. We need at least 10 BioBricks or 5 all-nighters to even hit 550. In either case, we can hold that for about an hour only. The fire is out and the stove is cold within 4 hours. Can we get an overnight (6-8 hours) on the NC-30? And if so, is that actual burn time and how much of that is a rapidly cooling stove?

3. We typically have to babysit the dragon, as it eats through wood and we are reloading every 2 hours. What can we expect with the NC-30? Can I leave the house for 4 hours and not come home to a cold stove?

Hoping to hear from NC-30 owners or those in the know. Thanks !!!

begreen · Nov 17, 2014

The 30NC may perform better wrt to burn times depending on the heat demand to make upstairs comfortable. First and foremost the stove is an area heater. What is the current stove (the dragon)? Is the basement insulated? How does the heat up from the basement to upstairs?

TomatoLover · Nov 18, 2014

begreen said:
The 30NC may perform better wrt to burn times depending on the heat demand to make upstairs comfortable. First and foremost the stove is an area heater. What is the current stove (the dragon)? Is the basement insulated? How does the heat up from the basement to upstairs?

Thanks for the reply. We have no complaints about the dragon with respect to the amount of heat it provides. As for its make and model, it's a bit of a mystery (I posted on the pre-EPA board and no one identified it -- only clue we have is it says "Air-Tite" across the front). Our neighbor said it is a Fisher Papa Bear knock-off, popular around here in the 70s with local stove works. It looks like a Papa Bar and has the same dimensions, if that helps. At any rate, although we have yet to hit single digits (and those days will surely come), the dragon was able to keep us toasty warm over the weekend with day time highs in the mid-30s and overnight lows in the teens. We did not need to burn 24/7 to keep the house warm (house is pretty well insulated and fairly tight with new windows and doors as well). Currently, we have an EcoFan on the dragon, which starts the convection loop. The house is a contemporary, but most similar to a split-level/raised ranch/bi-level with cathedral ceilings and a loft. The stove faces the open staircase. The heat travels across the lower level, up the stairs, and spreads nicely throughout the upper level. Bedrooms stay cooler, but we prefer that. So far, we have no issue with getting warm air where we want it.

The issue is the amount of wood the dragon is consuming and the fact that the burn cycles are so short. When I read on this site about people having a warm stove or a bed of hot coals after 8 or 10 or even 12 hours, I groan. Our stove is cold after 5, and down to 250 after 2.5 hours. So we'd really like something that burns longer as the days grow colder.

As for the dragon, we'll keep it in the lower level for now, since it does an amazing job of heating that space. In fact, it overheats the lower level. Our thought is that adding a stove upstairs reduces the amount we have to feed the dragon and may help with our 20 degree temperature differentials throughout the house (lower level is 90, main living areas are 72, bedrooms are 68 -- we're OK with 72 and 68, but not 90!). With another stove upstairs, we wouldn't have to wear shorts and t-shirts downstairs as we could run the dragon with smaller, spaced burns, relying on the new stove upstairs to heat the upper level. But I want to make sure that the stove we go with isn't going to need to be fed every 2-3 hours.

Are we on the right track?

BobUrban · Nov 18, 2014

all things equal the 30 should burn longer than 3-4hrs. I heat my 1600sq' with one exclusively and sleep through the night with coals to start a fire on in the AM and a house that is not cold depending on the temp outside and the wind. Typically wake to about 65 degrees - add wood, drink coffee,68-72 in no time

cdcarter82 · Nov 18, 2014

I have a 30 in my basement install, set into a masonry fireplace. I started a full load last night on a cold stove - outside temps were low 30's high 20s. I started the fire at 8:30 - by 9:30 I was cruising at about 650 stove top temp. When I checked it this morning at 6:00am, I still had a lot of coals being burned, and stove top temp of 450. I wanted to load it up before I left for work, but I thought the stove was a little to hot, and I didn't have the time to monitor a new load.

I am hoping to have a few coals left in the ash when I get home from work today to start a new fire with, but realistically I'll most likely have a cold stove again.

Z33 · Nov 18, 2014

cdcarter82 said:
I have a 30 in my basement install, set into a masonry fireplace. I started a full load last night on a cold stove - outside temps were low 30's high 20s. I started the fire at 8:30 - by 9:30 I was cruising at about 650 stove top temp. When I checked it this morning at 6:00am, I still had a lot of coals being burned, and stove top temp of 450. I wanted to load it up before I left for work, but I thought the stove was a little to hot, and I didn't have the time to monitor a new load.

I am hoping to have a few coals left in the ash when I get home from work today to start a new fire with, but realistically I'll most likely have a cold stove again.

This is almost exactly the way mine plays out. Loaded it up about 9pm last night closed the air down about 915 and still had a 275 degree stove this morning at 0600. Tossed on 5 dry oak split and left the door open for 5 minutes closed the door and left the house for the day.

bsruther · Nov 18, 2014

This is my first season using an NC30, after using a pre-epa stove for six years. There were a few times I coaxed 6 hours of useful heat out of the old stove, but it was certainly not the norm. Last night at 10PM, I loaded the 30 up to the point that I still had room for another layer of splits. When I got up at 6AM, the outside temp was 11F and the stove room was 73. There were a lot of tennis ball sized coals left in the stove. By 8AM, the stove room was up to 80.
I liked my old stove and it served me well, but the difference between the 2 stoves is huge. The biggest difference is wood consumption. With the old stove, the half cord I have on the front porch would be almost gone, but with using the 30, at least half of it is still there. I would say my wood consumption has been cut by at least a third and that's also a third less work I have to do.
So far, I've been burning 2 large loads and 2 small loads in a 24 hr period, but I could easily get by with 3 full loads in a day, although the area I'm heating is only 1000sq ft.

Grisu · Nov 18, 2014

TomatoLover said:
Thanks for the reply. We have no complaints about the dragon with respect to the amount of heat it provides. As for its make and model, it's a bit of a mystery (I posted on the pre-EPA board and no one identified it -- only clue we have is it says "Air-Tite" across the front). Our neighbor said it is a Fisher Papa Bear knock-off, popular around here in the 70s with local stove works. It looks like a Papa Bar and has the same dimensions, if that helps. At any rate, although we have yet to hit single digits (and those days will surely come), the dragon was able to keep us toasty warm over the weekend with day time highs in the mid-30s and overnight lows in the teens. We did not need to burn 24/7 to keep the house warm (house is pretty well insulated and fairly tight with new windows and doors as well). Currently, we have an EcoFan on the dragon, which starts the convection loop. The house is a contemporary, but most similar to a split-level/raised ranch/bi-level with cathedral ceilings and a loft. The stove faces the open staircase. The heat travels across the lower level, up the stairs, and spreads nicely throughout the upper level. Bedrooms stay cooler, but we prefer that. So far, we have no issue with getting warm air where we want it.

The issue is the amount of wood the dragon is consuming and the fact that the burn cycles are so short. When I read on this site about people having a warm stove or a bed of hot coals after 8 or 10 or even 12 hours, I groan. Our stove is cold after 5, and down to 250 after 2.5 hours. So we'd really like something that burns longer as the days grow colder.

As for the dragon, we'll keep it in the lower level for now, since it does an amazing job of heating that space. In fact, it overheats the lower level. Our thought is that adding a stove upstairs reduces the amount we have to feed the dragon and may help with our 20 degree temperature differentials throughout the house (lower level is 90, main living areas are 72, bedrooms are 68 -- we're OK with 72 and 68, but not 90!). With another stove upstairs, we wouldn't have to wear shorts and t-shirts downstairs as we could run the dragon with smaller, spaced burns, relying on the new stove upstairs to heat the upper level. But I want to make sure that the stove we go with isn't going to need to be fed every 2-3 hours.

Are we on the right track?

You won't need to feed the 30NC every 3 hours. In fact, you will probably not touch it for about 8 hours. As a rough guideline, you can expect a fire for about 4 hours, reasonable heat for another 4 hours, and coals for an easy relight for 4 hours more. Wood quality/species, draft, operating procedure may shorten or lengthen those times. I would think it is possible that the 30NC can provide all the heat you will need. However, you will need to work on your heat distribution. How far is the stairwell from the stove? Did you try placing a fan at the top of the stairs blowing cold air down into the stove room?

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

I own an NC30 and run it as hard as I can without hurting it. I want what the OP wants, to keep it above 550 and below 650. To do that I have to load the stove every three hours and coals do build up. If I don't mind the stove temps dropping into the 400s then I can certainly stretch out the reload times to 6 hours. I have frequently gotten overnight burns with it where I could reload without matches the next day.

It's a non-cat and long burns are not what they are made for. I feel confident saying that the NC30 will burn cleaner, hotter, and save you wood compared to the old smoke dragon.

Kaptain · Nov 18, 2014

Grisu said:
You won't need to feed the 30NC every 3 hours. In fact, you will probably not touch it for about 8 hours. As a rough guideline, you can expect a fire for about 4 hours, reasonable heat for another 4 hours, and coals for an easy relight for 4 hours more. Wood quality/species, draft, operating procedure may shorten or lengthen those times. I would think it is possible that the 30NC can provide all the heat you will need. However, you will need to work on your heat distribution. How far is the stairwell from the stove? Did you try placing a fan at the top of the stairs blowing cold air down into the stove room?

This.

I too have replaced a huge pre-EPA stove with a 30 (in the basement) and couldn't be happier.

You won't need to babysit it. When it's this cold my routine is 6 AM partially load the stove and by 5 PM there are still enough coals to get the next load fired up. 10 PM I'll fully load it and by 6 AM it's not uncommon to still have a 300F+ stove top and large chunks of coals.

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

That's fine if all you want is a 300-450 degree stove.

nyny · Nov 18, 2014

Highbeam said:
I own an NC30 and run it as hard as I can without hurting it. I want what the OP wants, to keep it above 550 and below 650. To do that I have to load the stove every three hours and coals do build up. If I don't mind the stove temps dropping into the 400s then I can certainly stretch out the reload times to 6 hours. I have frequently gotten overnight burns with it where I could reload without matches the next day.

It's a non-cat and long burns are not what they are made for. I feel confident saying that the NC30 will burn cleaner, hotter, and save you wood compared to the old smoke dragon.

what do you do with the coals when there's little room left? i shovel them out

Grisu · Nov 18, 2014

nyny said:
what do you do with the coals when there's little room left? i shovel them out

Rake them to the front, place a small split on top, open the air and burn them down. However, the coaling stage is a normal part of the burn. If the stove needs to be above 500 F most of the time, it is essentially undersized for the heating load of the building. At some point, a bigger stove or added insulation would be the way to go.

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

nyny said:
what do you do with the coals when there's little room left? i shovel them out

I open the draft full, put a small split on top and try to burn them down. Recently I've been burning more douglas fir and the coals aren't too bad when draft settings are high. Here is a pic of bigleaf maple from last year. I blow on the stove with a box fan, OEM blower on high, and keep STT under 650. It's been a great stove.

Kaptain · Nov 18, 2014

Highbeam said:
That's fine if all you want is a 300-450 degree stove.

Keeping 550+ continuously is not sustainable without dumping a large amount of coals regularly. Why don't you want to go over 650 degrees? These stoves can run hotter than that without any problems (800F or so is about the max) - it sounds like you need the extra heat anyway.

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

Grisu said:
Rake them to the front, place a small split on top, open the air and burn them down. However, the coaling stage is a normal part of the burn. If the stove needs to be above 500 F most of the time, it is essentially undersized for the heating load of the building. At some point, a bigger stove or added insulation would be the way to go.

Good point. I got the biggest stove I could find, the NC30, and still need to run it at higher temps due to my application. The OP listed that temperature requirement but if he could live with lower stove top temps then burn times go way up.

I am currently putting up the metal ceiling in the shop and will insulate above. Still though, I expect to walk into a cold 1800 SF barn and want to heat it up ASAP so max output will be the name of the game.

Grisu · Nov 18, 2014

Highbeam said:
I open the draft full, put a small split on top and try to burn them down. Recently I've been burning more douglas fir and the coals aren't too bad when draft settings are high. Here is a pic of bigleaf maple from last year. I blow on the stove with a box fan, OEM blower on high, and keep STT under 650. It's been a great stove.

Hmm, at that stage I would still get secondary flames and the stove would be above 500 F. Maybe I would open the primary a tad from being fully closed but that would be my only adjustment.

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

Kaptain said:
Why don't you want to go over 650 degrees? These stoves can run hotter than that without any problems (800F or so is about the max) - it sounds like you need the extra heat anyway.

False. I've melted the stove already at temperatures below 700 degrees STT. I am an engineer and monitor with three meters, always in attendance. It's not just stove temps but also throttle settings since at max throttle, the airwash plate seems to see more blast.

Highbeam · Nov 18, 2014

Kaptain said:
Keeping 550+ continuously is not sustainable without dumping a large amount of coals regularly.

I tend to agree. I wouldn't dump the coals but would accept a lower temperature while reducing the coals.

BurnIt13 · Nov 18, 2014

nyny said:
what do you do with the coals when there's little room left? i shovel them out

If you have the time to babysit the stove and have adequate ember protection....another option is to leave the door open for a while. The coals have a TON of infrared radiant heat left in them. As soon as you open the door you can feel the heat on you. I've done this a few times and the room warms up by a couple of degrees quickly.

If I'm in a hurry and need to make another fire soon I will rake them forward and throw a few small splits over them with the air wide open.

I find that with my reload schedule I just don't have enough coals to create a problem. When its -10F out and I'm running really hot and reloading often is the only time I get coal buildup.

nyny · Nov 18, 2014

Highbeam said:
I tend to agree. I wouldn't dump the coals but would accept a lower temperature while reducing the coals.

sometimes it takes many hours to burn down the coals. if it's really cold that's not acceptible

Huntindog1 · Nov 18, 2014

Highbeam said:
False. I've melted the stove already at temperatures below 700 degrees STT. I am an engineer and monitor with three meters, always in attendance. It's not just stove temps but also throttle settings since at max throttle, the airwash plate seems to see more blast.

Are you saying you melted your stove at 700 degrees F? As I have run stoves hotter then that and had no problems.

SST = Stove Top Temp

Grisu · Nov 18, 2014

nyny said:
sometimes it takes many hours to burn down the coals. if it's really cold that's not acceptible

Should not take that long. How dry is your wood? Do you have good draft?

TomatoLover · Nov 18, 2014

BobUrban said:
all things equal the 30 should burn longer than 3-4hrs. I heat my 1600sq' with one exclusively and sleep through the night with coals to start a fire on in the AM and a house that is not cold depending on the temp outside and the wind. Typically wake to about 65 degrees - add wood, drink coffee,68-72 in no time

Perfect. That's what we want. Let's hope we get similar results! Thanks.

TomatoLover · Nov 18, 2014

Kaptain said:
This.

I too have replaced a huge pre-EPA stove with a 30 (in the basement) and couldn't be happier.

You won't need to babysit it. When it's this cold my routine is 6 AM partially load the stove and by 5 PM there are still enough coals to get the next load fired up. 10 PM I'll fully load it and by 6 AM it's not uncommon to still have a 300F+ stove top and large chunks of coals.

Wow. Thanks! I can't imagine that right now with our pre-EPA dragon.

Actual burn time on Englander NC-30

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