Jotul vs. pacific energy

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Well, after all of this the supplier said the rockland won't fit. The minimum is 33 inches and ours is 31 inches. The unit is 30 inches wide, a 3 inch clearance for a power cord is needed! I am very frustrated. The Neo 2.5 was what we initially wanted but it didn't fit as well.

They recommended Vermont casting montpelier but I haven't heard anything good about those. Any comments on that one??

They said the summit would be too big for our space and that we would be dampening it down causing the glass to get dirty all the time. So, maybe the Alderlea T5 will be it!

our fireplace opening is a little more complicated because of an arch in the brick work at the top so we probably need an oversize panel...
 
I posted a message I but don't see it.

It turns out the Rockland won't even fit. Our space is 31 inches wide and it requires a minimum of 33 inches. That was very frustrating to hear. 3 inch clearance for a power cord! We initially wanted a Neo2.5 but it was too large.

So, the supplier suggest VC Montpelier but I haven't heard many good things about that insert. Any comments on that one?

In the end it looks like we are leaning towards alderlea t5.

Last night we were out of power for 5 hours do to strong winds. A wood stove would have been nice. :)
 
Thorndale said:
Well, after all of this the supplier said the rockland won't fit. The minimum is 33 inches and ours is 31 inches. The unit is 30 inches wide, a 3 inch clearance for a power cord is needed! I am very frustrated. The Neo 2.5 was what we initially wanted but it didn't fit as well.

They recommended Vermont casting montpelier but I haven't heard anything good about those. Any comments on that one??

They said the summit would be too big for our space and that we would be dampening it down causing the glass to get dirty all the time. So, maybe the Alderlea T5 will be it!

our fireplace opening is a little more complicated because of an arch in the brick work at the top so we probably need an oversize panel...
Click to expand...
I've had my Monti for a few years now and its been great. No issues. There you go- a good comment!
 
How about a Jotul 450?

I was just at my parents tonight who have one and they had a small fire going and it was putting off some good heat.
 
Bigg_Redd said:
Inserts are stoves
Click to expand...

Understood, but I don't have any experience with the ones he's talking about. I was trying to back out of the thread gracefully...
 
Don't believe the bull about the Summit being too much stove for your house, I and a lot of other people on this forum have chosen to install the insert with the biggest firebox that will physically fit in the fireplace. Just build smaller more intense fires and if you need more heat you stuff it full and let it rip. As someone told me several weeks ago "you'll never hear anyone say they wish they had a smaller firebox".
 
Thorndale said:
Well, after all of this the supplier said the rockland won't fit. The minimum is 33 inches and ours is 31 inches. The unit is 30 inches wide, a 3 inch clearance for a power cord is needed! I am very frustrated. The Neo 2.5 was what we initially wanted but it didn't fit as well.

They recommended Vermont casting montpelier but I haven't heard anything good about those. Any comments on that one??

They said the summit would be too big for our space and that we would be dampening it down causing the glass to get dirty all the time. So, maybe the Alderlea T5 will be it!

our fireplace opening is a little more complicated because of an arch in the brick work at the top so we probably need an oversize panel...
Click to expand...

Did you want the Neo 2.5 for its modern look? Maybe check out the similar Osburn Matrix; it is not that wide and may fit.

VC had (has?) many problems with quality control and customer support and changed ownership quite a few times over the last 10 years or so. They may have now found a permanent home since they were bought by a reputable hearth company. Still I would be cautious to jump on a VC stove just yet.

How many sqft do you actually want to heat? Maybe a floorplan would help. Also, what are the dimensions of the fireplace? Any pics? There may be many more inserts that could potentially fit. It sounds like you are not quite convinced of any of your options yet.
 
image.jpg image.jpg
Grisu said:
Did you want the Neo 2.5 for its modern look? Maybe check out the similar Osburn Matrix; it is not that wide and may fit.

VC had (has?) many problems with quality control and customer support and changed ownership quite a few times over the last 10 years or so. They may have now found a permanent home since they were bought by a reputable hearth company. Still I would be cautious to jump on a VC stove just yet.

How many sqft do you actually want to heat? Maybe a floorplan would help. Also, what are the dimensions of the fireplace? Any pics? There may be many more inserts that could potentially fit. It sounds like you are not quite convinced of any of your options yet.
Click to expand...

I have attached a photo of the fireplace and floor plan. The dimensions of the fireplace is 31 wide, 24 high (not including arch), 21 depth. The family room is actually 340 sq ft with vaulted ceilings. What do we want to heat? The family room mainly. That room is always cooler than the rest of the house especially in the morning. It only has a crawl space. But if the heat from the wood insert could keep the rest of the main floor room that would be great.

I am having a hard time being convinced because I keep hearing conflicting views on inserts. For example, does the jotul kennebec give off good heat or not? The firebox size is how big on that one?

The only one I haven't heard anything negative about is the PE Alderlea T5. The firebox is 2.7 cubic ft, close to that of the summit and the window is bigger than the super.

But I am thankful for everyone's help.
 
I checked the PE website to make sure but the T5 has a 2.1 cu ft firebox like the PE Super. Not sure where you got your info. I assume The T5/Super can heat your living area. It may be a bit harder to get the heat to travel to other rooms of the house.

Inserts are as efficient as their counterpart stoves but they are way more dependent on proper installation. First, the chimney should have a damper-sealing block-off plate with some Roxul insulation above to minimize heat losses through the chimney. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
Second, inserts are open to the room on only one side. Any heat not going there will end up in the masonry structure. If the fireplace is interior that hardly matters as the masonry will radiate the heat into the room just with some delay. With an exterior fireplace like yours some of the heat will undoubtedly end up in the yard. I can imagine that some of the problems you are having with keeping the room warm are due to that heat loss. That will be an even bigger problem once an insert is in the fireplace due to the larger heat differential. If there is enough room, insulating around the insert may help. See this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

Looking at your fireplace, I have the feeling a freestanding stove may look much better there and will reduce the heat loss to the outside. Unfortunately, you may need to extend the hearth then. Should you go with an insert, a unit with less depth would be good to have some space in the back for insulation.
 
Grisu said:
I checked the PE website to make sure but the T5 has a 2.1 cu ft firebox like the PE Super. Not sure where you got your info. I assume The T5/Super can heat your living area. It may be a bit harder to get the heat to travel to other rooms of the house.

Inserts are as efficient as their counterpart stoves but they are way more dependent on proper installation. First, the chimney should have a damper-sealing block-off plate with some Roxul insulation above to minimize heat losses through the chimney. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
Second, inserts are open to the room on only one side. Any heat not going there will end up in the masonry structure. If the fireplace is interior that hardly matters as the masonry will radiate the heat into the room just with some delay. With an exterior fireplace like yours some of the heat will undoubtedly end up in the yard. I can imagine that some of the problems you are having with keeping the room warm are due to that heat loss. That will be an even bigger problem once an insert is in the fireplace due to the larger heat differential. If there is enough room, insulating around the insert may help. See this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

Looking at your fireplace, I have the feeling a freestanding stove may look much better there and will reduce the heat loss to the outside. Unfortunately, you may need to extend the hearth then. Should you go with an insert, a unit with less depth would be good to have some space in the back for insulation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I was getting my information from a PE brochure the supplier gave me. I just checked and it says 2.7 but the website says 2.1. That's annoying...

I just started looking at freestanding stoves. It looks like the smallest jotul would fit. But it seems we just keep looking at smaller and smaller stoves, it will be the size of a shoe box! Do tooth picks count as good seasoned fire wood.
 
What is the height of the arch? Woodstock stoves only need about 27" from the hearth. Quadrafire Explorer or Isle Royale as well as Hearthstone Manchester or Heritage would be other options that are lower than most Jotuls. As said, your hearth is unlikely to be deep enough, though.
 
H
Grisu said:
What is the height of the arch? Woodstock stoves only need about 27" from the hearth. Quadrafire Explorer or Isle Royale as well as Hearthstone Manchester or Heritage would be other options that are lower than most Jotuls. As said, your hearth is unlikely to be deep enough, though.
Click to expand...

Height of the arch is 32 inches.
 
You would set the stove in front of the fireplace so the height you need to check is the rear-exhaust. For the Progress it is about 27", I think, with the short leg kit and should easily fit. The others I mentioned would also work as they have less than 31".
 
The jotul 450 is an excellent heater.it does put out considerable heat even with the blower off.We have at least twenty ft of insulated liner that's straight.The excellent draft does help a lot.You also need really dry wood.we heat half of our house with it and it excels.The 450 is also a bit of a hybrid stove in that it is three or four inches proud in the front.I would buy another one.
 
Grisu said:
You would set the stove in front of the fireplace so the height you need to check is the rear-exhaust. For the Progress it is about 27", I think, with the short leg kit and should easily fit. The others I mentioned would also work as they have less than 31".
Click to expand...

It sits completely out of the fireplace? Why have I seen pictures where it is partially in the fireplace?
 
Thorndale said:
It sits completely out of the fireplace? Why have I seen pictures where it is partially in the fireplace?
Click to expand...

If the fireplace is large enough, you can certainly recess the stove within it but it is not a requirement. See here:
product_photo_19_60.jpg


But with just 24" height on the edges, putting it in the fireplace will be hard for decent size woodstove in your case. Nevertheless, you would need to warm up to the idea to extend the hearth when placing a rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace.
 
What about a Hampton HI400 insert. Apparently it is considered large but it would fit our tricky fireplace. It is 29 inches wide, 22 inches high and 19 deep. This leaves an inch on either side and space on top. So rather then using the faceplate they supply we could have a custom steel plate that would go around the unit, inside the brick face. This would allow the brick work to stay as is.

So, I know that is all purely aesthetics, how does a Hampton h1400 perform? Based on the brochure it sounds amazing.
 
Orrrrrrr. . . you could just stick with an insert - a proven design like a PE Super/Pacific/Alderlea - which adequately heat tens of thousands of homes all over the continent
 
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Thorndale, can you post a picture of the fireplace so that we can see if there are additional issues? I am thinking an Enviro Venice (or Boston) 1700 right now, but not sure if there are other issues.
http://enviro.com/products/catalogue/?f=Wood&t=FPI
 
They're good, that helps. An Enviro might fit. What is the depth of the fireplace to the front face of the brick?
 
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