Learning the new Englander Madison

Silenced38 said:

The wood was standing dead and has ccs for a little over a year.

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I mostly burn maple, ash, poplar and cherry... but I also burn plenty of oak, hickory and pine. My experience with oak and hickory is that even dead they can take a long time to cure, and I now always try to give them two years after splitting/stacking.

Pine (eastern white) is a different story... it will season pretty quickly, but if not covered it seems really prone to soaking up moisture. So I've had bad experiences with all three varieties if I'm not careful. I don't have a mm, but my stove tells me in no uncertain terms when my wood is sub-par.

But even so, I don;t think your wood should be giving you THAT much trouble. Has it been under cover?

Obviously being a new user with a new EPA stove you don't have a basis to compare, other than to know things will be very different than how they worked with the box stove. But if you have to crack the door and it takes that long to get up to temp, something is very wrong. More than the wood it sounds to me like something is compromising your draft, but it could be a combination. Could be the stove, too.

I would focus less on what the temps are and see if you can tweak your technique and/or wood selection to get a clean burn with secondaries, meaning no (or very little) smoke coming out the stack. If you are smoke-free, you will be relatively creosote-free. Keep experimenting, and re-check your flue setup for anything that would be killing the draft.

I guess you could always weigh some wood before and after drying it in your oven to get a true look at how much moisture is in it.

But it does sound like the wood isn't up to par :-/

FWIW, my wood this year is pine that was stacked outside for 6ish months (very warm and dry here), MM reads ~8%, and I can tell some splits just weren't done cooking yet...

Out of curiosity, does your chimney follow the 3-2-10 rule?

http://www.fireplacesnow.com/tentwo.asp

I have been watching this thread since it started, and as I am also a Madison owner, I'll chime in. I am overall pretty happy with the Madison, as I finally seem to have gotten the trick of using this thing. In fact after seeing this, decided to do a little time study on the reload for my overnight burn. I have a lot of data and times, but it's going to be tomorrow before I post it all, as I have to get off to bed. What I will say, is that this is a LOT more sensitive to dry wood than I thought. That and that I don't think the AAS works anymore (stovetop has gotten 600-650 without tripping it), but I just use it as a regular (manual) air adjustment now anyway, seems to be more reliable that way. Anyway, good night all, I'll have lots of data/times/temps/info tomorrow.

How long was the wood standing dead? In our area wood that was been standing for over a year starts to rot and the first few inches of the outer layer (not the bark) is next to worthless. Just a suggestion.

webby3650 said:

If I left my door cracked for 30 minutes, we would have a serious situation!

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15 2x2 Pines?? Even if they were wet, my tee would glowing in 30 min, I think. Somethin ain't right...

DougA said:

How long was the wood standing dead? In our area wood that was been standing for over a year starts to rot and the first few inches of the outer layer (not the bark) is next to worthless

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It's a long way from ON to SE OK. Standing dead wood shouldn't punk too badly, but with Oak the sapwood can still punk on standing trees. Dead-standing Oak (dead several years) takes 2 yrs split and stacked here, and you can't split big or it's 3 yrs. Standing dead 10 yrs, maybe it would be getting dry in the trunk, after the sapwood rots off completely. Oak sapwood will absorb moisture if splits are left uncovered. Bring several splits inside, get them to room temp (not baking next to the stove,) then re-split and test.

Maybe a good idea to pick up a bundle of the kiln dried stuff to try. This would establish a baseline to work from.

Actualy Tarzan is the name of my African Grey Parrot. An easy one to remember since he is often squaulking his own name

Personally, I would lay off the pine, but that's just me, get it cleaned and inspected ASAP....worth the money in your case....start with smaller pieces of wood and tons of kindling and fire starter like super cedars or fat wood.....

In many areas you can find small bundles of kiln dried cord wood at Tractor Supply, Wal Mart, and even gas stations.

These would be best, if you can find them.

Silenced38 said:

Unfortunately they dont sell any kind of pressed wood blocks within 100 miles of my area. But they do sell bags of kiln dried hickory blocks for wood smokers. As soon as i get my fiber board replaced ill try a bag of those.
Now of the things ive noticed 1 is the pine burns way better than the hardwood and 2nd the stove either has to be super hot or in the coal stage before i can open the door without smoke pouring out.

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Sounds like draft to me when you say that. How's the house? Well sealed, any substantial leaks in the ceiling/attic that could make the "house act as a better chimney than the chimney"? Outdoor air available? Tried cracking a window or door when getting it going?

As a really rough experiment to keep the stack hotter, try wrapping the stovepipe in aluminum foil (= radiant heat barrier, keeping more of the heat inside). Definitely clean the pipe BEFORE you do this .... or else there's a good chance it'll torch off that creosote :D

Tried top-down fires?

One thing I've noticed from just starting to burn this year; I'll leave the door open until I have a good blaze going. At this point my stove top isn't reading much but my flue temp (double wall with probe) will be at or above 200. Then after I close the door my stove top temp will come up quickly. Maybe you're waiting to long to close your door? It'll usually die back pretty good (sometimes almost to a smolder) but it usually comes back strong. Until the door is closed, it seams like all the heat is just going up the chimney and not into the stove.

Did it not have a ceramic blanket on top of the fiberboard when you got it? Some stoves have that and some dont, if you can find that local it would be better, sometimes it is called Kaowool at kiln shops.

If you are to try concrete board on top of the fiber board I would go with 1/4".

Silenced38 said:

a bag of the kiln dried smoker wood. Is there anything else?

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Since that could get expensive for more than just one test load, you might look for some dry hardwood pallets, lumber scraps, or dry dead branch wood, too. Just don't go over-board (no pun intended) and overfire the stove.

But because of your smoke spillage and need to keep the door cracked so long, I still think you have a draft problem as well. It just doesn't add up to somewhat unseasoned wood alone.

Make sure you get that pipe clean, because with a thick layer of creosote in there you could have draft reduction, in addition to what you may already have. From your earlier thread, it seems to me you were too conservative in temps, and closing back the air, probably causing that buildup.

As I mentioned earlier, try to observe the smoke coming from the stack... have you been able to get sustained, smoke-free burns?

One more question: you seemed to get a long, clean burn with secondaries a while back, but did the stove change it's performance as far as drafting, or ability to get up to temp, when you added the OAK? Just wondering if that was a factor... should have made things better, not worse.