Learning the new Englander Madison

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Since that could get expensive for more than just one test load, you might look for some dry hardwood pallets, lumber scraps, or dry dead branch wood, too. Just don't go over-board (no pun intended) and overfire the stove.

But because of your smoke spillage and need to keep the door cracked so long, I still think you have a draft problem as well. It just doesn't add up to somewhat unseasoned wood alone.

Make sure you get that pipe clean, because with a thick layer of creosote in there you could have draft reduction, in addition to what you may already have. From your earlier thread, it seems to me you were too conservative in temps, and closing back the air, probably causing that buildup.

As I mentioned earlier, try to observe the smoke coming from the stack... have you been able to get sustained, smoke-free burns?
Yes. Once it gets over 450 and secondaries lit it burns smoke free. I have gotten up at nite and put wood in and gotten tired of standing there wait for it to catch. Just closed the door and went back to bed.
 
One more question: you seemed to get a long, clean burn with secondaries a while back, but did the stove change it's performance as far as drafting, or ability to get up to temp, when you added the OAK? Just wondering if that was a factor... should have made things better, not worse.
I can still get a long clean burn but it takes awhile to get going. Mabe the wood i had at first was really drier?
 
Also keep a check on the cap screen. If it plugs even only 50% you will have poor draft regardless of how clean the chimney is.
Ok ill have to get up there to add pipe anyway.
As far as adding pipe. Is 2' enough or go 4'? I was trying to keep it as low as posible for cleaning. When on the roof its at eye level now.
Can you have too much pipe?
 
I can still get a long clean burn but it takes awhile to get going. Mabe the wood i had at first was really drier?

Yes, but if your worsening ability to keep the fire going started exactly when you installed the OAK, maybe the OAK is related. Did you notice any other changes right around that time, like more smoke spillage or less secondary burning?
 
Sorry to say that poor wood selection and operator error is what's going on here.....start with burning 101 and a clean flue and you will be on your way, lower your expectations and respect the beast, it will love you back.....gl
 
Ok ill have to get up there to add pipe anyway.
As far as adding pipe. Is 2' enough or go 4'? I was trying to keep it as low as posible for cleaning. When on the roof its at eye level now.
Can you have too much pipe?

Do you have the pipe?

Would probably try two ft first as this could make quite a difference and still keep it easy to clean. Also, don't know your setup but you may require additional bracing if you add 4'
 
Do you have the pipe?

Would probably try two ft first as this could make quite a difference and still keep it easy to clean. Also, don't know your setup but you may require additional bracing if you add 4'
No. Ill have to buy the pipe. Ill also have to add a brace down to the roof.
 
Actualy Tarzan is the name of my African Grey Parrot. An easy one to remember since he is often squaulking his own name:)

Does he wear a leopard print onesy? ;)
 
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Sounds like draft to me when you say that. How's the house? Well sealed, any substantial leaks in the ceiling/attic that could make the "house act as a better chimney than the chimney"? Outdoor air available? Tried cracking a window or door when getting it going?

As a really rough experiment to keep the stack hotter, try wrapping the stovepipe in aluminum foil (= radiant heat barrier, keeping more of the heat inside). Definitely clean the pipe BEFORE you do this .... or else there's a good chance it'll torch off that creosote :D

Tried top-down fires?
The house is fairly tight. I was having a definite neg pressure issue before i added the OAK. Especially when the drier was running.
Mabe thats still part of the problem. Neg pressure when i open the door is over riding the draw of the flue? If its really hot say 550 or more then i can open the door without a problem.
 
If its really hot say 550 or more then i can open the door without a problem.

For the record, 550 would be well within its normal operating temps. It wouldn't be considered "really hot".
 
The house is fairly tight. I was having a definite neg pressure issue before i added the OAK. Especially when the drier was running.
Mabe thats still part of the problem. Neg pressure when i open the door is over riding the draw of the flue? If its really hot say 550 or more then i can open the door without a problem.
Huh, sounds marginal. I get issues in my house when it's not super cold outside, the dryer is running, and maybe 1 or more bathroom fans (or the kitchen hood)... but those problems go away by the time I'm >200F stovetop temp. My house isn't super tight in the basement though.

OAK has been installed though, so one would expect that should help. Is it attached directly to the stove, or is it terminating "near" the stove? Would be interesting to pull it off and see how much air is rushing through there with the stove cold I guess... and then with the stove running.
 
For the record, 550 would be well within its normal operating temps. It wouldn't be considered "really hot".
Right. It just seems really hot to me. We determined here that it is ok up to 700 for short times.
 
The house is fairly tight. I was having a definite neg pressure issue before i added the OAK. Especially when the drier was running.
Mabe thats still part of the problem. Neg pressure when i open the door is over riding the draw of the flue? If its really hot say 550 or more then i can open the door without a problem.
Have you tried leaving a nearby window open 1/2" to see if that improves starting or reduces smoke spill?
 
Also what kind of outside temps are we talking here?
 
Unfortunately they dont sell any kind of pressed wood blocks within 100 miles of my area. But they do sell bags of kiln dried hickory blocks for wood smokers.
Now of the things ive noticed 1 is the pine burns way better than the hardwood and 2nd the stove either has to be super hot or in the coal stage before i can open the door without smoke pouring out.
I wouldn't assume any of the "kiln-dried" wood is really dry; I've seen gas station Oak that was sopping wet, wouldn't burn worth a crap. I can tell by how heavy the bundles or splits are weather it is reasonably dry. I would trust pallet wood to be pretty dry, and you can tell just by looking at a pallet if it is new or weathered. Assuming your stack is tall enough (how tall is it now?,) the lack of draft is probably caused by lack of heat when trying to get that wet Oak burning. I doesn't have to be bubbling water out the ends; Just a bit of moisture is enough to really kill the burn. If your wood is 18% or less and you toss a split on a hot coal bed, it will be burning on a couple sides within a minute or two. The fact that the Pine is burning and drafting better is telltale. Hope you don't have a chimney fire before you can get that 1/2" of glazed creosote outta there. :oops:
 
Also what kind of outside temps are we talking here?
Its getting in the mid to low 30s at nite. Mid to upper 40s when i get home to light the stove.
But i have the same results in the morning when it low 30s. Lot of time i dont have a fire in morning because dont have time to mess with it.
 
I wouldn't assume any of the "kiln-dried" wood is really dry; I've seen gas station Oak that was sopping wet, wouldn't burn worth a crap. I can tell by how heavy the bundles or splits are weather it is reasonably dry. I would trust pallet wood to be pretty dry, and you can tell just by looking at a pallet if it is new or weathered. Assuming your stack is tall enough (how tall is it now?,) the lack of draft is probably caused by lack of heat when trying to get that wet Oak burning. I doesn't have to be bubbling water out the ends; Just a bit of moisture is enough to really kill the burn. If your wood is 18% or less and you toss a split on a hot coal bed, it will be burning on a couple sides within a minute or two. The fact that the Pine is burning and drafting better is telltale. Hope you don't have a chimney fire before you can get that 1/2" of glazed creosote outta there. :oops:
17, from topof stove to the cap
 
Im gona finish cleaning the pipe and put it back together tonite. Then go and find the splits that the mm says are the driest. Split and test every piece until i get a load of the driest that i have. And see what that does.
Itll be this weekend before i can add another piece of pipe
 
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Draft will definitely be affected if you are trying to relight a fire and it is in the 40's outsides..

But you definitely have to wait until your wood catches fire before closing it down otherwise you just created a creosote factory.

You can't leave the front door cracked when reloading and get good flamage and draft? That definitely indicates poor draft even with wet wood.

Additional chimney may help with draft, maybe not. Definitely try some 2x4 from the lumber store - non treated, and see how they fire up on a hot bed of coals...But again draft is difficult if it really is still 40 degrees outside.
 
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Draft will definitely be affected if you are trying to relight a fire and it is in the 40's outsides..

But you definitely have to wait until your wood catches fire before closing it down otherwise you just created a creosote factory.

You can't leave the front door cracked when reloading and get good flamage and draft? That definitely indicates poor draft even with wet wood.

Additional chimney may help with draft, maybe not. Definitely try some 2x4 from the lumber store - non treated, and see how they fire up on a hot bed of coals...But again draft is difficult if it really is still 40 degrees outside.
i understand that. But im pretty far south. Low 30s to upper 40s are most winter days. Right now at 4pm its 55 and will be 36 by 10 pm.
Several here convinced me that a cat stove was the way i should go. But it was unatainable this year. I have twins gratuating and going to college intge fall. Ones to be a Radioligist the other a Graphic Design.
Thanks to everyone for the help. Im try to learn new tricks. Ill put a 12 hour anger to post restriction on myself in the future.
 
It's possible that the Madison will turn out to be a stove needing a stronger draft that some. It sounds like you have covered most of the bases. Adding more pipe and maybe trying a couple bundles of store bought wood are about the only recourse left. I would add at least a 3 ft section of chimney with a roof brace attached at the 5 ft level on the pipe.
 
It's possible that the Madison will turn out to be a stove needing a stronger draft that some. It sounds like you have covered most of the bases. Adding more pipe and maybe trying a couple bundles of store bought wood are about the only recourse left. I would add at least a 3 ft section of chimney with a roof brace attached at the 5 ft level on the pipe.
Ok. Ill go with 4'. But whats the chances of lighting hit it. That far above the house. Doesnt get that cold here. But hellasus lighting storms it the spring.