Pellets versus Oil versus Propane versus Coffee&Bagel

That's a great analysis. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting. I used a calculator from BuildingGreen and your costs. And for giggles, I threw in the cost of coal for those PA guys to see the error in their ways.

you can't get a decent bagel here.

Candidly, I don't care what the cost versus the cost versus the cost is. I'll roast corn or pellets because I likie to, not because I have to. BTW, my propane is around 35 cents per gallon cheaper.

Im not using pellets full time right now given the price of oil which was $2.56/gal yesterday near me. Im only using pellets when were sitting at home. Other than that the oil boiler is running.

SidecarFlip said:

Candidly, I don't care what the cost versus the cost versus the cost is. I'll roast corn or pellets because I likie to, not because I have to. BTW, my propane is around 35 cents per gallon cheaper.

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Some people are in it for savings alone, period. If I had to rationalize every penny I just wouldn't even bother with pellets or a stove at all. But after some 40 years of burning stoves I guess I don't know any better, nor care. I put up the tree today, my wife has done some decorating around, I'm enjoying playing the piano in the glow and heat of the stove and it's cold outside. We like all that, burned a stove in all sorts of pricing . However, the OP said the thread was for new guys. I don't think you or I fit in this thread, possibly in more than one way. !

Don't forget to add the electricity you use to run the stove and the fuel you burned to get that ton home!

What about the fact that I burn a 100% North American product. That's kind of cool, no?

Just saw heating oil at $2.35 today. Every week it goes down another 5 cents. Honestly I never would have expected it to drop much below $3 even with crude oil going down.

GMadd said:

What about the fact that I burn a 100% North American product. That's kind of cool, no?

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Coal is 100% North American and oil could be too if we actually had leadership in D.C.

SKOAL MAN said:

Don't forget to add the electricity you use to run the stove and the fuel you burned to get that ton home!

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Gas and oil furnaces and boilers take electricity to run too, probably more than a pellet stove.

tjnamtiw said:

Coal is 100% North American and oil could be too if we actually had leadership in D.C.

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Tee hee hee. No way in waiting for politicians. I'm burning pellets baby.

Those numbers are interesting, but they are the perfect world numbers. Last year I used 600 gallons of oil to heat the house (and yes, I make sure to have my oil furnace cleaned before each winter) to 68 degrees while my wife and I were home and 61 otherwise. Even at $2.35 per gallon for oil I'm still better off with pellets even if they are $300 for ton and the house will be 70 or warmer as a bonus!

I think energy calculators are interesting, but the real world numbers for your house are what really matter at the end or the day.

Regarding pellet stove electric use, I don't think it is worth worrying about. My pdv-25 draws between 150 to 200 watts depending on whether I'm running on 1 or 9 for the heat and blower (measured with a kilowatt.) I pay $0.078 for electric and run my stove roughly 14 hours per day. This comes out to me spending between $5 and $6.50 for a month of burning. Not really worth worrying about.

alternativeheat said:

Some people are in it for savings alone, period. If I had to rationalize every penny I just wouldn't even bother with pellets or a stove at all. But after some 40 years of burning stoves I guess I don't know any better, nor care. I put up the tree today, my wife has done some decorating around, I'm enjoying playing the piano in the glow and heat of the stove and it's cold outside. We like all that, burned a stove in all sorts of pricing . However, the OP said the thread was for new guys. I don't think you or I fit in this thread, possibly in more than one way. !

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Most assuredly not. Like you, my wife and I appreciate the enjoyment aspect just as much as the heat aspect. Our stove is and has been a fixture in our home for decades and we will continue to use it just as we always have. Nothing chnages with us. The primary fuel changes with the climate, corn went outta sight so it was pellets but we will swing back to corn now that it's 'tanked, so to speak'.

I believe the low oil prices will adversely impact the solid fuel stove and furnace manufacturers just like high corn impacted the corn stove/boiler makers a couple years back and put some out of business..

You'll see a pronounced downnturn in stove/boiler slaes and a downturn in pellet sales, especially with corn being very affordable now. While corn might not work for easterners, it works for midwesteners and southerners. I'd much rather burn corn or a corn pellet mix, than pellets anyway. I get a certain satisfaction out of burning something that comes from local farmers (and myself), though it may not be my corn, it came from the tanl where all our corn is stored. Pellets may ( or may not be local) but corn is always local...supporting the local community and local farmers..

I'd say probably 85% of alternative fuel stoves and biolers are bought by people who are looking for relief from high oil, propane or electricity prices, with oil being the number one driving force. Eliminate that driving force and sales will go decidedly down, it's inevitable and I believe oil prices aren't at the bottom yet, with the Saudi's (OPEC) playing flood the market to crush shale oil production (I think is a stupid move, motivitivated entirely by greed and not logic), prices will contunue to slide. Bad for solid fuel appliance makers and pellet makers alike..

So yes, we will still use our stove like we always have and you will too, but the majority of those who own them won't and then look at selling them off because an unused stove is just a hunk of metal, taking up room.

Been on this merry-go-round more than once......

jintoreedwine said:

Those numbers are interesting, but they are the perfect world numbers. Last year I used 600 gallons of oil to heat the house (and yes, I make sure to have my oil furnace cleaned before each winter) to 68 degrees while my wife and I were home and 61 otherwise. Even at $2.35 per gallon for oil I'm still better off with pellets even if they are $300 for ton and the house will be 70 or warmer as a bonus!

I think energy calculators are interesting, but the real world numbers for your house are what really matter at the end or the day.

Regarding pellet stove electric use, I don't think it is worth worrying about. My pdv-25 draws between 150 to 200 watts depending on whether I'm running on 1 or 9 for the heat and blower (measured with a kilowatt.) I pay $0.078 for electric and run my stove roughly 14 hours per day. This comes out to me spending between $5 and $6.50 for a month of burning. Not really worth worrying about.

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Don't the energy calculators make you wonder? Your numbers should match up fairly close unless something is wrong or the assumptions are wrong.

Wrong size central heating unit, very leaky basement, a central heating unit that has BS claims. List goes on Im sure.

Can always install a oil stove.

http://www.wiseheat.com/oil-stoves/

This was joke by the way. Hopefully someone laughed.

I have propane ,and have 2 furnaces to run.My september propane delivery cost was $2.19 / gal,this past delivery was 2.29 / gal. This is the same cost as a year ago per delivery.I would suspect next delivery to be 2.49 or 2.59, So the cost of propane has not come down like fuel oil.This is why I have added a 3rd stove to my arsenal,Now I heat 100% with wood pellets.

tjnamtiw said:

Coal is 100% North American and oil could be too if we actually had leadership in D.C.

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we are net exporters of oil for the past several years ... so yeah burn oil if you want .. it's all american too. I'll stick with pellets until oil is so cheap I can crank the heat to 70-74 degrees for less $$ than pellets

lagger said:

we are net exporters of oil for the past several years ... so yeah burn oil if you want .. it's all american too. I'll stick with pellets until oil is so cheap I can crank the heat to 70-74 degrees for less $$ than pellets

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http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

We import over 6 million barrels a day NET......... Just think if Big O hadn't forced so many rigs out of the Gulf.

lagger said:

we are net exporters of oil for the past several years ...

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Ahm, no. And still far away from it:



The US just about now is able to satisfy 50% of their oil demand by domestic production. The other 50% have to be imported. And sorry if I bust any wishful thinking here but the US will never be a net oil exporter at current levels of consumption. This prediction is also shared by the industry itself:
http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/v...ent/us-shale-oil-output-likely-to-offset.html

"First, it is unlikely for shale oil to replace US imports of 9 million b/d on a sustainable basis of, say 10 years, because it requires both a greater EUR than that currently known combined with a significant improvement in well productivity. The increase of EUR is required for increasing the plateau duration.
Secondly, using current estimates, shale oil is likely to provide long-term US production of "a few" million barrels per day. This production, however, requires high oil prices and is vulnerable to global price declines."

"In other words, the shale oil resource volume as currently estimated is not sufficient to replace imported oil even though shale oil can reduce imports by perhaps 10-20%. Also the US oil production decline of 5%/year is about 250,000 b/d. Clearly, the shale oil resource can offset such a decline for several decades."

moey said:

Can always install a oil stove.

http://www.wiseheat.com/oil-stoves/

This was joke by the way. Hopefully someone laughed.

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Actually looks pretty interesting and reading the reviews on various units, might be a viable alternative. One reviewer was using farm diesel (red dyed ULSD) to fire his. In as much as I normally keep 1000 gallons on hand, I could theoritically plumb my diesel tank into one.

I had a bad experience with one of those portable keroscene heaters long ago, thats what got me started on solid fuel stoves actually.

Not sure they are even sold anymore.

SKOAL MAN said:

Don't forget to add the electricity you use to run the stove and the fuel you burned to get that ton home!

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I use far less electric to run my stove compared to my baseboard electric heat and my pellet supplier is on my way home, so I really don't use any more gas.

SKOAL MAN said:

Don't forget to add the electricity you use to run the stove and the fuel you burned to get that ton home!

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And an oil furnace does not need any electrical power and the oil just magically appears in the oil tank?