Vedolux 37 Install

maple1 · Sep 7, 2014

I think that's why I've had a couple of episodes of my zones air locking - my scoop is too close to an elbow.

But it's in the exact same place as originally installed 18 years ago. So I'll blame it on my installer of 18 years ago. ==c

alaskawild · Sep 7, 2014

See

maple1 said:
I think that's why I've had a couple of episodes of my zones air locking - my scoop is too close to an elbow.

But it's in the exact same place as originally installed 18 years ago. So I'll blame it on my installer of 18 years ago.

See it all the time! You will see a difference!

Carprofessor · Sep 7, 2014

Thanks for explaining the 18" rule. I hadn't heard that before. This is what has been running with my propane boiler for the last 7-8 years.

alaskawild · Sep 7, 2014

Yep you are tight on space but the layout is spot on! Hate to see you spend more money but an air separator like a Spirotherm or Taco 4900 would be the simple fix. Air is gone within hours or less. Keep up the pics! Really enjoy !!!

But those air scoops work great also if you give them some room!

Carprofessor · Sep 21, 2014

Ok, I'm listening. Plumbed in the wood boiler connection to my propane boiler loop. The top two lines are coming from the storage tanks. I added another air scoop in the supply line. The water will circulate through the entire system and trust everyone approves this will remove any air in the system! On the far right you can see the Taco Bumble Bee circulating pump. I still have to plumb the wood boiler but that should happen soon. Looking for advise on how to hook up the wiring so the propane boiler and the wood boiler work together.... wood when there is hot storage water and propane if not.

Carprofessor · Oct 5, 2014

First Fire Today!!

I'm only able to heat the storage tanks so far, but that' progress. Tanks are full and no leaks. Make just 2 small fires today to dry out the ceramics but I can already feel heat in the top of the tanks. I will cl Still working on the electrical needed to get this to work in tandem with my propane boiler. Dean at Smokeless Heat has been a great help and is advising me on the best way to get everything working together.

[

Retired · Dec 23, 2014

Hi Carprofessor - Nice install and pics. Did you ever come up with the "simple" controls for your system? I have been looking into installing a very similar system. I will be doing a complete replacement and using a 37 with a propane backup. This is a great forum and when I was actively chatting on another thread last summer, I also had excellent input from Maple 1, Coal Reaper, and Clarkbug. The controls was part of why I put it on the back burner to finish other tasks. I plan on installing this Spring, but still have no idea what controls I will be using. I like simple! One thought about your piping. Am I correct that your propane boiler is in series with your primary loop? Why I ask is that my propane boiler will be through the wall and in my garage. Do you have much heat loss, if I am observing your system correctly? I guess that would ensure that I would not freeze my boiler

Thanks for any input.

Quincy · Dec 24, 2014

Hi Carprofessor I am following your posts quite closely as I live in south western Ontario as well .I am looking into the same boiler as you installed does the Ved 37 exceed your expectations . Could you tell me what temp ranges you heat from and how long it takes to heat storage back up? Over all are you happy with the boiler the install looks great thanks in advance for your reply.

Carprofessor · Dec 25, 2014

Quincy said:
Hi Carprofessor I am following your posts quite closely as I live in south western Ontario as well .I am looking into the same boiler as you installed does the Ved 37 exceed your expectations . Could you tell me what temp ranges you heat from and how long it takes to heat storage back up? Over all are you happy with the boiler the install looks great thanks in advance for your reply.

Thanks for your comments. I'm happy to share my experience so far, but since this is the first winter we are still forming solid opinions. What I can tell you is that the boiler currently meets our expectations. My other source of heat is a propane boiler and it has not fired up yet this year. We are heating a larger home that is well insulated but with lots of windows. I am also heating a 900 sq ft garage. So far we have burned about 2 -1/2 cords of hard wood. That's not unreasonable. I am projecting that we will burn 6-8 cords this winter. That will cost me about $900 for the winter. Not only is that a good price for a winter's heat (in my opinion) but our house is much more comfortable than it has been for the last 9 winters. I find that I make 2 fires per day. It really doesn't seem to matter what the temp outside is. When the temp dropped to less than -10 I found that a third fire was needed every other day. The nice part is that I make a fire when it is convenient for me to do so. If I don't get out to make one in the morning there is still enough stored heat for several hours. I will still need to make two fires that day, but the could both be in the evening. The temp in the tanks drops from about 80 to 65 overnight. After 2 fires it will be back up to 80. One burn lasts about 4 hours. It will be interesting to see how it performs when the temp drops to -20.

Carprofessor · Dec 25, 2014

Retired said:
Hi Carprofessor - Nice install and pics. Did you ever come up with the "simple" controls for your system? I have been looking into installing a very similar system. I will be doing a complete replacement and using a 37 with a propane backup. This is a great forum and when I was actively chatting on another thread last summer, I also had excellent input from Maple 1, Coal Reaper, and Clarkbug. The controls was part of why I put it on the back burner to finish other tasks. I plan on installing this Spring, but still have no idea what controls I will be using. I like simple! One thought about your piping. Am I correct that your propane boiler is in series with your primary loop? Why I ask is that my propane boiler will be through the wall and in my garage. Do you have much heat loss, if I am observing your system correctly? I guess that would ensure that I would not freeze my boiler Thanks for any input.

The control was one of the more technical parts of the project to wrap my head around. I wanted an automatic setup that would switch back to propane if the storage tanks were not hot enough. With invaluable assistance from Dean at www.smokelessheat.com I installed a system that does this. I installed a Ranco relay and a Taco SR506 zone controller. The Ranco monitors the temp of the storage tanks. As long as they are above a minimum set point, any call for heat is directed to the pump supplying water from the storage tanks. If the storage water is not at the minimum temp the Ranco relay directs the call for heat to the propane boiler. Now that it is up and working, and I understand it, I would call it simple. Took some time to get there though. I'd be happy to tell you the specifics if your interested. I would need to go back into my notes to get the details.

Yes, my propane boiler is in the primary loop. I have no way to tell what the heat loss is. I asked about this and was told that there is heat loss but it was not a significant factor. The boiler is in the basement, so any loss through the water jackets is into the house, so not really a loss. The question might be how much heat is going up the flue. My propane boiler uses a forced vent so that might help. If you propane boiler is in the garage you may experience a greater heat loss, unless you are also heating the garage. My wood boiler is in the garage. I have insulated the garage and the residual heat from the boiler maintains the temp at about 10 with no other source of heat. Quite nice.

Carprofessor · Jan 30, 2016

Its been a while since I have posted anything here but I have been reading with interest. I am now in my second winter with my boiler and thought I would post a few things and ask a few questions.

Last winter the V37 boiler worked well but I thought it went through a lot of wood. I certainly would not call it a wood monster, but it was more than I was hoping for. I lost track because I had bring more in 3 times, but I would estimate close to 10 cords of ash. To be fair, we had an unusually cold and long winter last year (remember the polar vortex) and the second time I brought wood in it was green ash - freshly split - as I had run out. Other than the wood consumption, I was pleased. (Even with the wood consumption I was pleased, but maybe expecting too much?)

This winter I was better prepared and brought in 8 cords of seasoned ash. The wood burns much nicer. This has been an extraordinarily mild winter - many days required only one fire - but I still think I am burning more wood that I would like. As of today, January 30, I have burned just under 400 cu ft of wood - just over 3 cords. At this rate I think I'll end up at a total of around 6 cords for the winter. That's not too bad but I wonder if there is some fine tuning I can do.

Last year I tried to keep my 1000 gallons of storage topped off at around 90 c. My tanks are walled off and wrapped with pink insulation. I think there may be a bit more heat loss there than is ideal and so this year my target temp has been around 70 c. My propane boiler will kick in automatically if the storage drops below 55 c. , which is never does. There may be some gain by spray foaming my tanks, but that will cost close to $1000, so not sure if it really pays. What do people think about keeping the lower temp? One would think that the lessor temp differential would result in less heat loss.

I have in-floor radiant in the basement, which is at a constant 18c. Upstairs is forced air through a fan coil and is on a programmable thermostat. During the day its set to 22.5c and drops back to 19c at night.

The V37 has a few adjustments for combustion air. I've played around with them but nothing seems to make a great difference. I have attached a 4 second video to show what the secondary combustion looks like. I roars pretty good, but the flame is quite yellow. I've seen other videos that showed a more blue (hotter) flame. I'm wondering if this is something that can be adjusted. There is an adjustment knob that opens up a small air bleed around the sight glass. This is set to about a 1/8" gap. There is a slide that opens extra air into the primary combustion area. It is wide open. My flue gas temp never goes over 200c, and is right up there for most of the burn. A burn last 3 or 4 hours and normally heats the house for 8-12 hours, or more if it is mild outside.

Any thoughts? Would spray foaming the tanks pay? Does the combustion look proper? Any thoughts on adjusting it?

As always, thanks for your opinions.

Coal Reaper · Jan 31, 2016

I have not been impressed with ash. I view it as a wood to use if you dont have any other seasoned long enough. Ur consumption is about right with ash i would think. Other woods in my area put out far more btus. Black birch, locust, hard maple, beech, oak. But they gotta be dry. Big difference there.
I used to think the same thing about less heat loss with lower storage temps. I learned it really doesnt matter if the tanks are sprayed.
Air settings dont make a lick of difference. I found tho if i close the slider it pulls more air past the glass which keeps it cleaner.

maple1 · Jan 31, 2016

3 cords of ash so far doesn't sound bad at all - but we don't know much about your house or its heat loss.

I can't speak about the 37 adjustments - but off the cuff might check out if that wide open primary adjustment is making the secondary too rich? But in playing with my 40 I also couldn't really notice a difference in how the secondary burned while adjusting the window. Mine is open only a very small crack.

I have changed my burn habits since I first started. I usually don't start a fire now until my storage gets to the point that the house will start losing temp. Depending on the day or how cold it is out, that could be 125 to 140 at top. And my tanks seldom go past 180/165 on charging. Sometimes only 170/60, again depending on how cold it is outside. I am quite sure I am burning less wood this way as opposed to when I first started & kept storage hotter. How cool you can go depends again on house heat loss, and emitter capability. I have all Stant Fin baseboard, although I think oversized for what a typical oil burner application would size. I haven't burned more than 6 hours a day either this winter or last.

I didn't read back any - but did the Vedo replace another wood burner? If so what was it & how did it do for appetite? I think I went from around 8 cords with my old wood/oil unit (and some oil when the wood couldn't keep up), to 5 with this one (no oil) - while keeping the house warmer (20 year old 2700 sq.ft. 2 storey on an open hilltop). I had some issues with my wood supply during & after my first winter with the new one, and just getting back into good quality well seasoned wood this winter. Big difference. Last couple of winters I was using mostly windfall spruce (likely 50%) and white birch I could get dry in a hurry. Going through some dry sugar maple now - it's nice.

Carprofessor · Jan 31, 2016

Coal Reaper said:
I have not been impressed with ash. I view it as a wood to use if you dont have any other seasoned long enough. Ur consumption is about right with ash i would think. Other woods in my area put out far more btus. Black birch, locust, hard maple, beech, oak. But they gotta be dry. Big difference there.
I used to think the same thing about less heat loss with lower storage temps. I learned it really doesnt matter if the tanks are sprayed.
Air settings dont make a lick of difference. I found tho if i close the slider it pulls more air past the glass which keeps it cleaner.

Carprofessor · Jan 31, 2016

Hi CR,
Thanks for your reply. Living in Eastern Ontario, there is a lot of green ash available thanks to the Ash Borer infestation. Maple has been harder to get in the last few years, unless you a bit further north. The stats I've found says Sugar Maple is 3740 lbs and 23.2 mbtu's/cord and Green Ash is 3400 lbs/ 21.1 mbtu's /cord. If those numbers are accurate then Green ash out to be about 90% as good as maple. Maple is a whole lot easier to split though!

I reset the slider to "closed" and opened the sight glass when I made a fire this morning. I'll give that a try.

Thanks.

Carprofessor · Jan 31, 2016

maple1 said:
3 cords of ash so far doesn't sound bad at all - but we don't know much about your house or its heat loss.

I can't speak about the 37 adjustments - but off the cuff might check out if that wide open primary adjustment is making the secondary too rich? But in playing with my 40 I also couldn't really notice a difference in how the secondary burned while adjusting the window. Mine is open only a very small crack.

I have changed my burn habits since I first started. I usually don't start a fire now until my storage gets to the point that the house will start losing temp. Depending on the day or how cold it is out, that could be 125 to 140 at top. And my tanks seldom go past 180/165 on charging. Sometimes only 170/60, again depending on how cold it is outside. I am quite sure I am burning less wood this way as opposed to when I first started & kept storage hotter. How cool you can go depends again on house heat loss, and emitter capability. I have all Stant Fin baseboard, although I think oversized for what a typical oil burner application would size. I haven't burned more than 6 hours a day either this winter or last.

I didn't read back any - but did the Vedo replace another wood burner? If so what was it & how did it do for appetite? I think I went from around 8 cords with my old wood/oil unit (and some oil when the wood couldn't keep up), to 5 with this one (no oil) - while keeping the house warmer (20 year old 2700 sq.ft. 2 storey on an open hilltop). I had some issues with my wood supply during & after my first winter with the new one, and just getting back into good quality well seasoned wood this winter. Big difference. Last couple of winters I was using mostly windfall spruce (likely 50%) and white birch I could get dry in a hurry. Going through some dry sugar maple now - it's nice.

Carprofessor · Jan 31, 2016

maple1 said:
3 cords of ash so far doesn't sound bad at all - but we don't know much about your house or its heat loss.

I can't speak about the 37 adjustments - but off the cuff might check out if that wide open primary adjustment is making the secondary too rich? But in playing with my 40 I also couldn't really notice a difference in how the secondary burned while adjusting the window. Mine is open only a very small crack.

I have changed my burn habits since I first started. I usually don't start a fire now until my storage gets to the point that the house will start losing temp. Depending on the day or how cold it is out, that could be 125 to 140 at top. And my tanks seldom go past 180/165 on charging. Sometimes only 170/60, again depending on how cold it is outside. I am quite sure I am burning less wood this way as opposed to when I first started & kept storage hotter. How cool you can go depends again on house heat loss, and emitter capability. I have all Stant Fin baseboard, although I think oversized for what a typical oil burner application would size. I haven't burned more than 6 hours a day either this winter or last.

I didn't read back any - but did the Vedo replace another wood burner? If so what was it & how did it do for appetite? I think I went from around 8 cords with my old wood/oil unit (and some oil when the wood couldn't keep up), to 5 with this one (no oil) - while keeping the house warmer (20 year old 2700 sq.ft. 2 storey on an open hilltop). I had some issues with my wood supply during & after my first winter with the new one, and just getting back into good quality well seasoned wood this winter. Big difference. Last couple of winters I was using mostly windfall spruce (likely 50%) and white birch I could get dry in a hurry. Going through some dry sugar maple now - it's nice.

I don't think my wood consumption is too bad this year but I'm looking to see if I have everything set up right to get the most out of what I am burning. I have reset the combustion adjustments as Coal Reaper suggested - shutting down the primary air and opening up the secondary. I'll report back if that makes a noticeable difference in the burn. Looking at some other videos, the secondary burn seems very blue while mine is very yellow. That's what makes me wonder. There is some wear on the ceramic floor - the hole has gotten a bit bigger. Would that change the burn characteristics? I'm tempted to get a steel plate with a smaller hole cut in it an lay it over the ceramic just to see if the smaller hole makes much difference. What do you think of that? Not permanent, just a test.

I have a relay that monitors the temp in the top of one tank. If that tank drops to 56c (133F) the supply pumps from the tanks turn off and the propane boiler fires up. That never happens, but suffice it to say that 56c is the lowest I let the temp get. The lower sections of the tank, and the second tank can be much cooler - perhaps 40c (105F) but the supply to the house comes off the top of the tank that never drops below 56c. I only make enough fire to get through the day without the propane coming on. I rarely fire above 70c (158F). My theory is that the thermal loss from the tanks will be greater when the temperature difference is the greatest. Still testing that theory. Coal reaper says spary foaming makes this much less of an issue. I am considering doing that this summer.

maple1 · Jan 31, 2016

I didn't spray foam my tanks. Just kind of built a box around them & stuffed it with what I had laying around. Lined it with foamboard first, and put a couple layers of foamboard under them. But the rest is fiberglass batts, with some cellulose wadded into gaps under them that I didn't get foamboard into.

I'm doing something with mine that I haven't read of anyone else with a Varm doing. So maybe I'm out to lunch. And mine is natural draft so there might be a difference there. But I am using a grate over my nozzle. First couple three years it was a cheap fireplace grate with the legs cut off. This year I am using Broil King BBQ cooking grids, used ones that I swapped out of the BBQ for new this summer. Haven't found anything yet that will last much time, so it's kind of disposable equipment - but it maintains a nice coal bed, and I get very few if any coals in my secondary chamber. Seemed my nozzle plugged with coals a lot of the time without it, and some ended up unburned. I might be getting the same effect with the grate as a coal plugged nozzle might give, but I do think it evened out my burning. And it doesn't take as many coals to make a bed with the grate as it does with a plugged hole. If I said that right.

huffdawg · Jan 31, 2016

Carprofessor said:
I needed to insulate the shed to prevent freezing if the boiler is off for any prolonged time and to keep the storage water from cooling as much as possible. I priced spray foam but it was quite expensive. I found used sheets of Styrofoam (4x8x3") and used that. I know it doesn't have the same R value as spray foam but it was so cheap I put 6" in the ceiling and around the storage tanks. Worked out to almost 10x cheaper. Looked odd driving down the highway though.View attachment 136719

Lol.. I thought that was your boiler at first. till I enlarged the image.

Coal Reaper · Feb 1, 2016

i wasnt able to watch your video over the weekend but i just did now. that flame does look lazy to me. mine looks like that when i have the bypass open. check to make sure it is able to close all the way. when in operation my channel will glow red. its actually about time for a new one. your stack temp is where it should be but 3-4 hour burn time with ash is long. mine doesnt run for 4 hours with hard wood and i know it is about 2 with soft maple. i wonder if your fan is moving enough air.
i have not had need to use a grate like maple. i have had made a nozzle liner. my ceramic has not worn any more since. this link goes through the failure of a steel one. the stainless upgrade is holding up fine. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/steel-nozzle-liner-vedolux-37.120396/

JohnDolz · Feb 1, 2016

Carprofessor said:
Its been a while since I have posted anything here but I have been reading with interest. I am now in my second winter with my boiler and thought I would post a few things and ask a few questions.

Last winter the V37 boiler worked well but I thought it went through a lot of wood. I certainly would not call it a wood monster, but it was more than I was hoping for. I lost track because I had bring more in 3 times, but I would estimate close to 10 cords of ash. To be fair, we had an unusually cold and long winter last year (remember the polar vortex) and the second time I brought wood in it was green ash - freshly split - as I had run out. Other than the wood consumption, I was pleased. (Even with the wood consumption I was pleased, but maybe expecting too much?)

This winter I was better prepared and brought in 8 cords of seasoned ash. The wood burns much nicer. This has been an extraordinarily mild winter - many days required only one fire - but I still think I am burning more wood that I would like. As of today, January 30, I have burned just under 400 cu ft of wood - just over 3 cords. At this rate I think I'll end up at a total of around 6 cords for the winter. That's not too bad but I wonder if there is some fine tuning I can do.

Last year I tried to keep my 1000 gallons of storage topped off at around 90 c. My tanks are walled off and wrapped with pink insulation. I think there may be a bit more heat loss there than is ideal and so this year my target temp has been around 70 c. My propane boiler will kick in automatically if the storage drops below 55 c. , which is never does. There may be some gain by spray foaming my tanks, but that will cost close to $1000, so not sure if it really pays. What do people think about keeping the lower temp? One would think that the lessor temp differential would result in less heat loss.

I have in-floor radiant in the basement, which is at a constant 18c. Upstairs is forced air through a fan coil and is on a programmable thermostat. During the day its set to 22.5c and drops back to 19c at night.

The V37 has a few adjustments for combustion air. I've played around with them but nothing seems to make a great difference. I have attached a 4 second video to show what the secondary combustion looks like. I roars pretty good, but the flame is quite yellow. I've seen other videos that showed a more blue (hotter) flame. I'm wondering if this is something that can be adjusted. There is an adjustment knob that opens up a small air bleed around the sight glass. This is set to about a 1/8" gap. There is a slide that opens extra air into the primary combustion area. It is wide open. My flue gas temp never goes over 200c, and is right up there for most of the burn. A burn last 3 or 4 hours and normally heats the house for 8-12 hours, or more if it is mild outside.

Any thoughts? Would spray foaming the tanks pay? Does the combustion look proper? Any thoughts on adjusting it?

As always, thanks for your opinions.

First of all thanks for all of the posts, I just read through them and really enjoyed the read. I am still very new here but most of the thought process seems to be around system design and and the burn to charge the tanks (vs. what to do with the energy stored in the tanks). I started a thread on heating with low flow temps a few weeks back, not sure if you had a chance to read through it. I can share that my experience is I am getting substantially longer duration out of my tanks (better mileage out of my BTU's). I have the same setup as you, automatically kicks over to propane. Last year my setpoint was at 60C, this year it is at 38C (27C in the shoulder seasons). To keep it apples to apples I can tell you I get much more heating time from charged tanks to 60C (and then of course the benefit of letting it drop substantially lower). The fact that you have radiant heat allows you to create 2 "loops", you can use really low flow temp for the radiant and then a bit higher for the rest of your heating needs. I accomplish this through a controller built into my boiler combined with mixing valves. Others commented on the thread that they are successfully doing this with controllers and injection pumps. A couple of folks said they will be giving this a try, I'm looking forward to reading their feedback once they do. Good luck and great job!

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